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RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 4:44:40 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Well, for me it started with Heraclitus, Pythagoras, Socrates, Homer, and Aristotle, and continued through Spinoza, Decartes, and Hume, among others. When I read the Gor books, which had been written by an Ivy League PhD in philosophy, I saw many of the philosophical threads with which I was already familliar pulled together in some interesting ways under the guise of some relatively poor fiction. I met some folks who saw what I did; a different way of thinking about the world, the origin of which was not Madison Avenue. We started calling ourselves Goreans (which is just short for Pythagorean anyway) and Pythagorean just sounds really pretentious.

So, yes, there is a bit of a philosophy there, but nothing that you need strain yourself with. Weren't you just looking for your remote? Home Improvement should be on pretty soon. It would be a pity if you missed it.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/30/2004 4:48:40 PM >

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 4:46:05 PM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessJules
With gor, eyes down. knees spread, palms up. . .the palms up part is to show that they had no weapons~


From what I remember of my foray into Gor chatrooms a long time ago, and from plowing my way through the (repetitive) books, a slave who knelt with her palms was signalling she wanted to get fucked. Or was ready/trained for it, anyway.

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RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 4:55:35 PM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		But wouldn't that still be the position of inspection? As in Old World, Old guard, and I beleive gor. . .after the position of inspection. . .the person being inspected can then (upon direction of the dominant) commence to play, have sex, serve in some other physical way. . . .et al.


Cheers!

~Jules~

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A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 4:57:18 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Jules,

Well, two things. First of all, I'm not sure how the "fingers intertwined" position (which the military uses when taking prisioners so that THEY don't try and kill their captors) would be any less role-play like than a slave with palms up IF palms up meant "I'm unarmed", but it doesn't. For a Gorean girl, putting her palms up means that she is sexually receptive to whomever it is that she is kneeling in front of, which does seem to be a bit more relevant in a non-role play sense than putting someone in a position that would generally be used for taking a prisoner of war. So, yes, I guess this is one of those times when you just might be talking out of your ass.

Take care of yourself.

Leonidas

(in reply to GoddessJules)
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RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 5:00:18 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

a slave who knelt with her palms was signalling she wanted to get fucked.


What would his/her position be to signal he/she was ready to paint my house?

Sinergy

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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 5:02:12 PM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		So are you suggesting, that there is no protocol for the position of inspection for gor? And for all the gorean speakers that came to tell us about their protocols at organizational meetings. . .they were all speaking out of their asses?

In our order. . .we learned that goreans didn't like when we talked about thier philosophies and protocols. . .and they actually considered it RUDE if we were in mixed company and someone who was not gor spoke about gor "cultures" and "traditions." So, I'm not fully pulling what I'm saying out of my ass. . .it would be some "collective" ass I'm pulling it from. . .including self professed goreans who go around giving "demos" of their protocol.

Cheers!

~Jules~

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 5:04:44 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

Philosophy? Didn't the Gorean lifestyle start from some fantasy books? I mean no offense but Gor seems like Dungeons and Dragons with bdsm added. If you want to follow this in your life, I don't have a problem with that. But it's role playing taken to an extreme degree. Nothing more.
In my opinion of course.


Philosophy

examination of basic concepts: the branch of knowledge or academic study devoted to the systematic examination of basic concepts such as truth, existence, reality, causality, and freedom

system of thought: a particular system of thought or doctrine

set of beliefs or aims: a precept, or set of precepts, beliefs, principles, or aims, underlying somebody’s practice or conduct

calm resignation: restraint, resignation, or calmness and rationality in a person’s behavior or response to events

its all a bit deeper than a 'fuck me now' or awaiting permission...(both of which is of course a potential outcome)...... palms presented as such is to show that a slave has nothing to hide (which could represent weapons yes)... but its also showing the Dominant openess.. she comes with nothing, she is there to learn... to accept that what she will receive because that is what she is.(and she knows it)

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.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 5:21:55 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		This is proving my point about Gor. You take yourselves way too seriously. And you look down on us who happen to live in reality.
I have no problem with you living your lifestyle any way you please. But don't try and tell me that Gor is anything but fantasy bs that may be enjoyable to some, but it is role playing. I can make up my own world, call it anything I want, add protocols to follow, and I'm sure I could get people to follow it too.
Enjoy it, just don't attach any big importance to it. Otherwise you start sounding like Scientologists.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 5:22:35 PM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		hello dark angel,

I admit I simplified what that position meant. . .but these were what I was told by someone in the gorean lifestyle. To quote you:
quote:

its all a bit deeper than a 'fuck me now' or awaiting permission...(both of which is of course a potential outcome)...... palms presented as such is to show that a slave has nothing to hide (which could represent weapons yes)... but its also showing the Dominant openess.. she comes with nothing, she is there to learn... to accept that what she will receive because that is what she is.(and she knows it)


I can still see how this definition goes hand in hand by the person giving the lecture about gorean protocols to our group. In our order, when discussing protocols (and the protocols of other "sects"). . .we invite speakers from those groups so that they can give us their accounts first hand.

What I quoted from you goes directly against what Leonidas says (and I quote):
quote:

Well, two things. First of all, I'm not sure how the "fingers intertwined" position (which the military uses when taking prisioners so that THEY don't try and kill their captors) would be any less role-play like than a slave with palms up IF palms up meant "I'm unarmed", but it doesn't


Learning about other groups is interesting, but I'm sure that every group still has definitions that can be "pinned down" when called upon for a connotative definition.

Cheers

~Jules~

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 5:23:58 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

its all a bit deeper than a 'fuck me now' or awaiting permission...(both of which is of course a potential outcome)...... palms presented as such is to show that a slave has nothing to hide (which could represent weapons yes)... but its also showing the Dominant openess.. she comes with nothing, she is there to learn... to accept that what she will receive because that is what she is.(and she knows it)


On a related note, various Asian martial arts and meditation systems wherein one leads the meditation and others follow, when bowing at the end of the meditation the only one with palms down is the leader, whereas all others in the room bow with palms up to show openness to receive the teaching.

Not sure what that has to do with Gor, but there ya go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 5:28:35 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Jules,

Yeah, well, the collective ass can be just as poor a source of information as the individual ass, I'm afraid. As with a lot of the protocol, the books are the source of that one. There is a passage where the slave turns her palms up to signal that she wants to be raped, and the symbolism of it is explained.

As for Goreans not wanting to talk philosophy with outsiders, you are absolutely right, we generally don't. You learn from inside the group, or not at all.

Yes, we have an inspection position, and it too has the girl placing her hands behind her head. Her tits happen to look better that way, and it keeps her hands away from other parts that one might like to inspect. No military lineage, though.

Damn, it's tough being the Gorean ambasador around here sometimes.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 5:30:18 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
Damn, it's tough being the Gorean ambasador around here sometimes.


Butat least you get diplomatic immunity.

Yours,
Taggard

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A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 5:40:34 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

This is proving my point about Gor. You take yourselves way too seriously. And you look down on us who happen to live in reality.


We don't look down on you, we just happen to take exception to someone telling us we live in a delusion, like you just did, when you know... lets see.... yeah, thats it.... just about jack shit about us.

quote:

But don't try and tell me that Gor is anything but fantasy bs that may be enjoyable to some, but it is role playing.


Well, again, you are making some pretty broad assertions about a whole bunch of people that you've never been around, except maybe in a chatroom. What was that you were saying about living in reality? Sounds like you've got some fantasies of your own there. They just didn't happen to come from a book.

You know, EString, nobody was trying to tell you anything. Somebody asked, and I answered. Since you are in a position to know way more about it than I do, living in reality and all, you decided that you didn't like my answer, and offered your expert opinion. Maybe it's you who shouldn't be trying to tell us, waddaya think? I could start making some rather broad assertions about how you live your life, but you know, I don't know much about how you live your life, so I think I might be courteous enough to let you talk about that. But what do I know, out here in fantasy land. Yes?

Take care of yourself

Leondias

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 5:41:16 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Greetings...

What I responded and what Leonidas responded with are not contradicting each other(IMO)... Palms open is showing that the slave comes with nothing to recieve everything. She comes with nothing to hide and is accepting her postion because that is what is. she has no need for weapons... (your previous suggestion)... in fact she needs nothing but what the Master will command upon her.

quote:

Learning about other groups is interesting, but I'm sure that every group still has definitions that can be "pinned down" when called upon for a connotative definition.


I think if this was the case, then personally, I would not be a part of that group as I prefer not to be a sheep, but I have a mind of my own. Yes there are definitions... in all things there is the definition... but to follow how someone else writes it to the exact letter would be foolish and also disrespectful to oneself. Because one wouldnt be true to their own conviction.

I love the whole concept of BDSM... be it Ds, Sm, gor or any other fetish because its an individual choice by consenting adults in a safe enviroment. If someone takes a paddle as a punishment, then thats their choice... to another its a pleasure. But the paddle is still... a paddle.

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 5:51:19 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

This is proving my point about Gor. You take yourselves way too seriously. And you look down on us who happen to live in reality.
I have no problem with you living your lifestyle any way you please. But don't try and tell me that Gor is anything but fantasy bs that may be enjoyable to some, but it is role playing. I can make up my own world, call it anything I want, add protocols to follow, and I'm sure I could get people to follow it too.
Enjoy it, just don't attach any big importance to it. Otherwise you start sounding like Scientologists.


Ummmmmmmmmmm....

I don't remember saying I was Gorean?

*checks all around 'coz she wasnt the last time she looked*

I simply responded to Your comment (In my own way)... politely I believe... I think its yourself that took to the reply and the 'roleplay' too seriously .. if its only roleplay(which there are many kinds of in BDSM)... and its their choice... then whats the problem?

People only devalue and ridicule that what they fear because they do not understand it. Like black pudding(yikes i have to ridicule that coz it scars the bejeebies outta me)

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 6:06:09 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Nifty thing about a Gorean girl, Sinergy, just about any position she is likely to be in would indicate readiness to paint your house, if that is what happened to please you.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/30/2004 6:07:58 PM >

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 6:14:22 PM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		I'm just going to say this and drop it. . .because I'm sure no one means to succumb to "ad hominem attacks". . .and for some reason. . .a lot of times gor is discussed. . .it seems to turn out that way. So I will make a conscious effort not to "attack"the messenger. . .and just stick to addressing what is said. (I'm not above doling out ad hominems every now and again. .you'll find me guilty at times.)

If someone says that a certain position/stance doesn't mean that someone is unarmed, then another person says that it can, yes it is contradictory.

I think that people can interpret concept differently. . .however, definitions are just that. . .they define what a thing/person/idea/er al is. If that were not the case, we couldn't communicate. If I had a different connotative set in mind for the word "ball". . .they when I say. . ."look at that red ball". . .you wouldn't know to look at the round spherical object that was red in color. The denotative set for "ball" may vary for the both of us but the lexical and connotative definition will be the same.

So when I say "position of inspection". . .I don't mean some abstract concept. I mean that within a certain "sect" of D/s, there is a term for a set of actions. . .and I was asking for elucidation on that action. It has nothing to do with being sheep. . .we as humans have the ability to rationalize and articulate those thoughts.

Cheers

~Jules~

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 6:46:38 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

If someone says that a certain position/stance doesn't mean that someone is unarmed, then another person says that it can, yes it is contradictory.


Tries to explain simply(but is just repeating herself over an over i know....lol) that the palms open doesnt mean that there are no weapons but shows openess ... she comes with nothing. But in a literalsense... she is open, hiding nothing and totally receptive to what is to come to her from the Master she is before.
(I really dont see how this differs with Leonidas, but there You go ~ open palms faced up shows plainly to someone they are empty... therefore you can't be hiding any weapons... sure... but its not specific to that... its the symbolism thats apropriate not whats there)

In response to Your quote.
quote:

With gor, eyes down. knees spread, palms up. . .the palms up part is to show that they had no weapons (I guess so the newly taken slaves doesn't try to kill the new master and his household. . .). . .I just can't see how you can suspend reality to the point of "imagining" a slave uprising at any moment.


This is not an inspection stance in Gor. But more a submissive display one.

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 6:49:54 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Jules,

Yeah, discussions like this do often go that way, and they usually unfold about like this one did. Someone asks something along the lines of "what does it mean to be a Gorean" and someone who has been in the life answers the question, then someone who knows absolutely nothing about it says "aw, shit, they're nothing but a bunch of trekkies and role players who never outgrew playing dungeons and dragons" S'ok. After nearly two decades, I'm pretty much used to it. You made mention of the fact that Goreans don't like saying too much to outsiders. Maybe you're getting an idea about why. If folks who knew me knew that I posted here, they'd be saying "man, why waste your time, the likes of them don't get the likes of us". But, I enjoy posting here, so I do.

There could well be some variation between practices among Goreans on that side of the pond and what I have seen here. The standard kneeling position for a Gorean slave is with her hands on thighs, palms down. On this side of the pond, if she turns palms up, she isn't saying "fuck me now", she is just saying "I'm receptive to you", or "I'm interested". There is basis for this in the books themselves, which is where we got it over here. I'm not going to start quoting the books here, but if you'd like me to send you the origin of it by mail, I'd be glad to.

Yes, your understanding of the utility of positions is exactly like ours. If I say "nadu" I don't have to explain what that means to every single slave I say it to. It is a cultural commonality that just makes things easier, and, the way that the girl assumes that position will tell me something about the kind of slave she is.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/30/2004 7:42:06 PM >

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The Gorean Lifestyle - 7/30/2004 6:50:55 PM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline
quote:

Nifty thing about a Gorean girl, Sinergy, just about any position she is likely to be in would indicate readiness to paint your house, if that is what happened to please you.


Where can *I* get one of them there nifty girls?

*winks*

~Jules~

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 40
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