RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (Full Version)

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JohnWarren -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/1/2005 3:15:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000

What discipline is your own PhD John, and deed you come across our own John Money at JHU and Dr. Simon Marginson from UNSW ?


My doctorate is in Mass Communications Research with a dissertation based on a year's research in the PRC.

Obviously, my field is neither education nor pediatrics?




Jacques1000 -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/1/2005 3:34:56 PM)

How much academic work has been done in the US on BDSM. I imagine sociologists and anthrologists have been quite active...?




Sensualips -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/1/2005 3:48:39 PM)

Not me Kitten, I would love a Dom with a psychology background.

Now a submissive...hmm, not so sure about that.




darkinshadows -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/1/2005 3:50:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000

How much academic work has been done in the US on BDSM. I imagine sociologists and anthrologists have been quite active...?


Just a unpretentious essence of CM - it would succor the original proposition if one administers to inquisition, rather than circumambulate to ones own agenda. Possibly, that is a catechism for another structure?

Pacification and Rapture.




sub4hire -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/1/2005 4:20:36 PM)

quote:

He's an MD with a PhD in sexology from Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. He's an LCSW, but he's not a psychiatrist. They have a lengthy, and pretty confusing, post-degree series of hoops to jump through.


Precisely, when in college we had a couple of required reading textbook's he had written. Of course I am biased because he is one of my idol's but I don't believe too many have done as much as he has done for the lifestyle.
Kind of like you John, he was around back in the Rinella days and the Warren days...hehe.

I've been on a group with the man for a few year's now. Still haven't gotten up the courage to even say hello.
I'm just in awe of the man.

Anyway, if you go through college now they will teach you that BDSM is no longer a mental illness.




fyreredsub -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/1/2005 4:34:05 PM)

i have never sought therapy to deal w/ my kink.
i found i am not sadistic through being a top.nor am i a masochist., i know i don't like pain,therapy isn't needed for that. it is just something i know.who knows maybe one day i will come to enjoy certain aspects of it......
as to therapists/counselors...etc.the ones i know think bdsm is abuse,none are kink friendly.




fyreredsub -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/1/2005 4:37:22 PM)

my masters is in counseling and my undergrad psych,lol...........but i'm not a Domme,anymore


quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

I haven't pursued specific kink therapy, but I would like to (if I had health insurance). My dom often pushes me to find someone to talk to about my desires, fantasies, and personal issues, but since I can't afford it right now, I'm sorta out of luck.

I do think it is a good idea. And I do think there are therapists out there who can help.

As for TenderDom2K, I would personally be creeped out, having a shrink as a dom. But good luck in your search!





JohnWarren -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/1/2005 5:23:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
I've been on a group with the man for a few year's now. Still haven't gotten up the courage to even say hello.
I'm just in awe of the man.



Go ahead and say "hi." If you need an excuse, tell him I told you to.




TenderDom2k -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/1/2005 7:22:21 PM)

Wow, this is turning out to be a rather engaging thread. No hard feelings KittenWithaTwist. Like I already told someone who told me that the 1st time, in my own 1st round (yes there was another, and probably another one to come) of therapy, my therapist had been referred by someone she had gone to school with. This guy was my bud, a junior prof, a quadraplegic, and the lead singer for our band Idiots Blocking Traffic. When he had a big party, I freaked out that she might be there. So I totally relate.

Now, regarding DSM comment before: John Warren is on the money. Any "illness" is only one if it disturbs one's life enough to cause a disruption in function, within the domains of social, occupational, financial etc. The vast majority of the stuff I read hear don't sound like that at all. In fact, it's really what I wish more people were doing which is becoming more of a whole person and understanding themselves better.

Regarding John Money comment: I was an undergrad at Hopkins when Money was at the med school. I had a buddy who was a research assistant with him. Aside from my lack of respect for him for being stubborn in not accepting the evidence demonstrating that gender identity is NOT determined by parental rearing,

[ModEdit please read TOS]

Regarding reporting: Where I practice in the state of California, the reporting that is most strict is regarding minors and elderly. I don't see there being any problems with consensual acts, even branding or scarification. Which is not to say there aren't subs who aren't in a typically abusive-psych-trap relationship. But like Iron Bear so aptly stated, most of the time it relates to commonly seen issues not specific to BDSM.

Finally, re: KittenWithaTwist's post re: psychtx re: kink. It might open up an interesting thought space to explore. Not just in terms of the standard psych stuff of the meaning and connections of various cravings, tickles, turn ons, etc. But also to better define, crystallize and understand them. Example: One of my long term cases was, like most of my pts, someone with a traumatized childhood. Father suicide during 1st Oedipal stage. Mother's BF the hairdressor fondled pretending to teach her how to swim. Once the transference was deep enough she related erotic dreams mainly of rape. But though guided readings (e.g. Story of O), and linking various feelings arising from situations, and the cultural symbolism of things (e.g. medical stuff), she developed a better defined sense of what her 'kink world' was. The difficult thing was her BF was vanilla and needed some sessions to understand her needs. Whew!

The key thing for success and not some horror story, in my humble opinion, is the connection with the shrink (besides qualificaition, reliability, etc). The rule of thumb I give is 4 sessions to see if you click. If not, move on. If you don't have insurance (yes our health care system is completely broken) try a psychoanalytic institute. I might also suggest a university, but my guess is that they would be more strictly traditional in their approach than some of the analytic places that emphasize self psychology (my orientation), attachment theory, Bion, or more ?personal schools of thought.

Man, now I'm really blathering on. And no old Chinese men story yet.

TenderDom2k




sub4hire -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/1/2005 7:24:01 PM)

quote:

Go ahead and say "hi." If you need an excuse, tell him I told you to.


Nah, I will wait until we are in another heated debate about Belguim or something.




FelinePersuasion -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/1/2005 7:56:31 PM)

I don't think one needs a kinky therapist to get guidence and objectivity just one that has clear goals and who is focused on helping you help yourself first and foremost.



Tammyjo, actually it helps. I went to therapy for other issues, not bdsm. but she eventually got to know about bdsm and meet my bf and we was working on couples issues.

I had a wonderfull therapist she wasn't kink aware, I filled her in on my kinks and my emotional ageplay, she totaly got ageplay bdsm my needs ect ect, but she was an intern and the day came for her to leave to get fully liscenced and my new therapist was against ageplay and bdsm.

She was always telling me bdsm is unhealthy so is ageplay and it's just another opertunity for a person to be sexually abused all over again. I kept trying to tell her the whole basis was on *consentual* but she kept insisting it was negative and unhealthy




RunsWithWolves2 -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/27/2005 6:52:29 AM)

Kitten, I will provide free professional counseling to you. Let me know when you are ready. Many Blessings.




thetammyjo -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/27/2005 7:42:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Where the problem lies is that many therapists grew up with the DSMIII and haven't read the updated material.


with all due respect, this slave believes the problem lies within a society that insists on labelling consensual acts of personal choice indicative of a disease.


I think what John was saying is that the more up to date DSMIV (which has even been revised I believed) sees a big difference between when consensual people do and what is non-consensual.

A clinical sadist might be the BTK killer for example not your master. I'm using "might" because the legal system sees a difference between a mental problem you can control and being mentally ill.

People like Charles Moser are working hard to study BDSM and to help health care professionals (mental and otherwise) differentiate between mental illness, dangerous people, and those who are just doing kink in consensual ways.

You are right, society says this is wrong.

Doctors and other health care professionals grow up in this same societies. It takes time, energy, money and lots more time to get them to reassess long held beliefs.




thetammyjo -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/27/2005 7:48:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion
Tammyjo, actually it helps. I went to therapy for other issues, not bdsm. but she eventually got to know about bdsm and meet my bf and we was working on couples issues.

I had a wonderfull therapist she wasn't kink aware, I filled her in on my kinks and my emotional ageplay, she totaly got ageplay bdsm my needs ect ect, but she was an intern and the day came for her to leave to get fully liscenced and my new therapist was against ageplay and bdsm.

She was always telling me bdsm is unhealthy so is ageplay and it's just another opertunity for a person to be sexually abused all over again. I kept trying to tell her the whole basis was on *consentual* but she kept insisting it was negative and unhealthy


Sadly it sounds like you need to find a new therapist.

I think that's harder than it sounds.

We are still very much raised (I believe) to see all health care professionals as baby-gods who know what's right. We have rights a consumers and as people though to get second and third opinions and to not have folks ignore reall issues because something else has a bee in their bonnet.

If this therapist tells you are being abused and you feel she/he is wrong, find another therapist.

I also happen to believe that any therapist who just gives you the "answers" or the "facts" isn't doing the job of helping you learn about yourself and empowering yourself. If you are or have been abused, you will realize it when you are mentally and emotionally safe enough to do so.

At least this is what happned to me. My first therapist (I was sexual assaulted in college) told me a year later when I wrote to her and said I was now dealing with childhood abuse problems that she always knew that was there but it wasn't her job to push me only to guide me and offer me support. I've very very grateful she had this philosophy.




Tine11 -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/27/2005 8:41:39 AM)

I am currently seeing a consiler, and she knows of that am considering the lifestyle. though i have to admit she seems totally clueless and lost with it. In a way i think that is good because while they might not understand, it defently can allow for a outside option on things that may be going on a relationship.




slavedesires -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/27/2005 8:50:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: asyouwishmaster

I'm curious if anyone has pursued therapy to help them with issues, concerns, decisions, or understanding of what the lifestyle means to them? Do you think there are "kink" friendly Psychologists, Psychiatrists, or therapists that may understand the lifestyle?


i have been very blessed. i have seen the same therapist in the past and when i realized i needed to return, found out she is VERY accepting of my M/s, D/s desires and lifestyle. She infact was well versed in it.
Several of my friends go to therapists with different styles of therapy... ones in which i could NEVER get the help i need.
Finding the therapist whose approach and style suits an individual is like, IMHO, finding a needle in a haystack, finding the "perfect" Dom or the physician that takes time for the patient instead of looking at the dollar bills and how many patients can be seen in an hour's time.

that's my shillings worth




liljoy -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/27/2005 8:57:14 AM)

i've been told that i should seek therapy when a lesson in meditation brought back memories of the hypnosis to recall my rape. For several minutes there it took all that i had in me to not jump up an run screaming from the class. i was eventually able to fight through it and the tears on my face dried. i was even kinda able to find a somewhat relaxed state.

Later when i told Master about what had happend He felt it was important to tell the teacher of the class incase anyone in the future had something like that happen to them. The teacher was very kind about it and suggested that i should seek therapy.

i didn't follow that advice for a couple of reasons.

#1 i've been there done that and didn't see any changes. i fail to see how talking about any of the events in my life that have left scars will make the scars go away. The events still happened and some of them have no bases for understanding. They just are.

#2 i'd be very afraid that the therapist would decide to try to cure me of being submissive. i see being a submissive not as a disorder but what i am. If they cured that part of me what would be left?

#3 i'm pretty danged happy with who i am. The events that i've gone through have played a part in who i am. Do i have bagage related to those events? yes i do but much have that has been worked out without therapy but with much trust and love.

It is not my intent to bash those of you whose profession is in therapy. i believe there are good ones out there and folks that are in need of therapy. i just don't see how it could help me.

lil_joy




slavedesires -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/27/2005 9:04:28 AM)

quote:

The key thing for success and not some horror story, in my humble opinion, is the connection with the shrink (besides qualificaition, reliability, etc). The rule of thumb I give is 4 sessions to see if you click. If not, move on. If you don't have insurance (yes our health care system is completely broken) try a psychoanalytic institute. I might also suggest a university, but my guess is that they would be more strictly traditional in their approach than some of the analytic places that emphasize self psychology (my orientation), attachment theory, Bion, or more ?personal schools of thought.


When i first started seeing my therapist many years ago i was unemployed and just starting self employment..she gave me a discount based on income. My Psychiatrist did the same and gave me samples of meds...still does becasue i dont have medical insurance...he realizes self employment is not always benefical.

Therapists who belong to HMO's and managed care organizations have an obligation to their organization for payment.
Try an independent therapist who will work with you in regards to payment. They are NOT a$$holes.




Wolf1020 -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/27/2005 9:56:49 AM)

I have been the therapy with two doctors. One lasted for almost a year and the other only three sessions. Why the difference? The first one and I clicked, the other was a loon. I think the trick to finding a good therapist is to find one that you click with and that wont try to make you feel like you are mental. Now if you are legitimately mental that's one thing but if they try to make you believe you are mental that's another. I am a homebody with a gun hobby. My the first therapist was fine with that and issues I had she helped me work with without trying to convince me I was crazy for being a homebody and actually liking guns. The second tried her damndest to convince me I had underlying issues and that's why I was a homebody, I just don't like crowds that's how I am and I find more enjoyment from a movie then a party, she couldn't get this through her head. And the fact I actually enjoyed guns? Oh that she had a field day with trying to convince me I was a violent person that guns are evil and I needed to get rid of them before something "happened". By the third session I laughed at her and walked out.

So the key? Find a doctor friendly to your beliefs and that will work with you rather then trying to convince you how wrong you are. And that wont treat you like you are insane or have a mental problem when you don't because it is maybe outside the norm or something she doesn't agree with.




candystripper -> RE: Therapy and the Lifestyle (11/27/2005 11:24:57 AM)

There's no difference in being emotionally/mentally ill -- such as clinical depression -- and being physically ill. If You needed surgery, You'd probably go to the best hospital; choose the most experienced surgeon, and get a second opinion...which might get You to change surgeons.

When interviewing a therapist with script authority -- and there's little reason to see anyone who does not have script authority -- You should feel a "click" between You. You should be especially interested in a discussion of the intended effects -- side effects -- adverse effects of any meds suggested...and the final decision on meds should be Yours.

As i have said before, each US county has a county mental health board, federally funded, charging on a sliding scale, and offering free or low cost meds when required. No one need forego therapy if they desire it. In a county mental health board, if the 1st professional assigned to You does not "click" ask for another; it's a part of the patient's bill of rights under which these organizations are funded. To find Your board, call Your county commissioner's office and ask for the name & telephone number.

candystripper




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