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RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 3:23:11 PM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
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Okay, here's what I did in a similar situation:

1) I gave the kid a pass that gave him access to pretty much any YMCA he wanted to go to. (showers and beds) That alone was a $50 investment.

2) I was willing to loan him some good clothing, or buy him a few things at a local thrift store. Primarily so he could look halfway good for job interviews.

3) I met him on Sundays at a local coffee shop, and would buy him lunch. While there, I'd get some idea how he had spent his week, and I would spring for a copy of the Sunday paper, and go through the want ads with him.

That was it.

Sorry, but at the time, my home was my own personal sexual Disneyland. I wasn't going to share with some kid who still hadn't learned the virtues of being employed, clean, and self sufficient.

On another thread, I related the story how I had once lost a job, and almost ended up living on the street myself. Luckily, I was able to "trade" for a warm place to sleep that winter. (It meant being the slave of a very nice gay couple for the winter, but that wasn't too bad of a "punishment")

My question is, doesn't this kid have any friends who would let him crash with them? (That seems kinda telling...)

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 21

RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 4:35:45 PM

lronitulstahp

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quote:

You can chose your friends but you can't chose your family

In many cases i have chosen my friends to be my family...and happily, vice-versa.

You're not beholden to anyone OP...i think alot of people nowadays expect to benefit from the hard work and sacrifice of others. i have family members for whom free just isn't free enough. Yet, the idea to work and get their own seems completely foreign. Do what you feel you want to do..and try not to feel guilty about what you didn't, or refused to do. An enabler usually gets rewarded...but rarely in a good or positive way.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 22

RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 4:46:00 PM

stella41b

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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
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Certain things have to be learned in life. If you cannot learn from your own family, nor your school, nor your friends, then the best place to learn is the street.

When it comes to family ties I can't really say. MY immediate family put me through hell and don't accept me. I have my own definition of family, it's very close to my definition of theatre, and doesn't include creating unnecessary drama for others or putting yourself first.

I've also been homeless, street homeless. First time was when I ran away from home at 15 and spent 3-4 months in London. I experienced more and learned more in those 3-4 months than 16 years of living at home. My being homeless hasn't had any detrimental effects on me.

You can be kind and help him to the nearest shelter for the homeless. Or you can be even kinder and say "Call me when you've sorted yourself out."

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Post #: 23

RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 4:55:43 PM

Vendaval

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Hello Rich,

How much assistance I offer to someone who is struggling in life is in proportion to their abilities and their attitude. Some members of my biological family are as you describe; drug/alcohol problems and lack of responsibility. Those types of people are not allowed in my home. They will be provided with numbers for assistance and some extra food, clothing, maybe rides to employment interviews, etc.

Those who are either biological family or friends needing a place to stay for a while know that this household is free of alcohol/drug abuse and that anyone staying here has to contribute, through money and/or sweat equity. They are also informed about certain aspects of my life that may make them feel uncomfortable.

Regards,

Vendaval

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Assuming you were capable of doing it, how far would go to help such a relative? How far along the family tree does the obligation stretch?

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Post #: 24

RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 5:27:18 PM

soul2share

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I'd be very leery of his past record......he's not going to change until he's ready to take control of his own life, and will ride for free as long as he is allowed. If his mother is so concerned about where he lives, let her take care of him.

He's being evicted...so obviously, he is lacking in the sense of responsibility to keep a roof over his own head.

I'm all for helping out friends who are having a rough patch, but not like this. A rough patch tends to be temporary, and he who finds himself in one takes the appropriate steps to get out of it.

Just based on your OP, I'd say nope, let the kid figure it out for himself. Too many kids these days just seem to think that people are there to bail them out everytime their lives get screwed up....I may seem a bit harsh, but I've seen it all to often with my friends and their kids. My sister and brother-in-law locked their son out of the house when he racked up his first felony arrests.....he's an alcoholic who gets violent when he's drunk, refuses to get help to handle his issues....in fact, he's sitting in the county jail right now after his latest rampage at my sister's house. Trust me, this is my sister's "baby", he was spoiled as a child, and for whatever reason, started down a path of self-destruction that none of the family was prepared for. It's killing her to have to watch him go thru this, but she also knows that there is no helping him until he's ready to accept the help.

Make a decision, and stand by it.....what does your gut tell you to do?

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Post #: 25

RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 5:30:17 PM

Real_Trouble

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I would not help him, myself. I get the impression we see (at least somewhat) eye to eye on this.

I help people who first try to help themselves; I also have a somewhat contentious relationship with much of my family. There are only two individuals who I would consider unconditionally helping in the entire group.

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Post #: 26

RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 6:12:49 PM

cpK69

Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Assuming you were capable of doing it, how far would go to help such a relative? How far along the family tree does the obligation stretch?

I’m more likely to base such a decision on how deserving (are they trying to help themselves) such a person is, regardless of relation.

There is a young adult I have tried to help by giving him a place to stay for awhile, so he could attempt to get himself together. Unfortunately, he has yet to find his reason for doing so; therefore I had to make him leave.

My reasons for helping him out were because I know what he went through growing up; lack of positive influence, with lots of this is how we don’t do it, going on.

What concerns me more, the previously mentioned “kid” now has one of his own, and the second doesn’t stand any better chance of making something of himself, than his father did.

Adding: The only one I have allowed to stay, without their doing much toward becoming a responsable adult, is my oldest; and I'm getting ready to buy him a tent, so I can send him on his way with a fair warning "It gets mighty cold around these parts, come winter."

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 6/14/2008 6:20:03 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 27

RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 8:42:38 PM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      So I had a phone call this morning from a relative who is now pretty pissed off at me. It seems her 25 y/o son and his roomate have been evicted from the trailer they were renting, and he is homeless. He cannot stay with her, but since I have a big house...

I said no. I was a bit annoyed that she would even ask

    This is not a good, hardworking kid who hit a rough patch. No skills, anger issues, a piss-poor attitude, and the ever-popular entitlement mentality. Drugs? Oh you betcha, with convictions. He's not completely stupid, there is hope he can get himself together, but he is at a critical point.

     Setting aside the fact that I wouldn't trust him not to bring chaos into my home, letting him in would be the worst thing for him. I have all the comforts a lazy stoner could want; a/c, movie channels, x-box, fridge-freezer-pantry and even a massive old stereo system.   What lesson does he learn from that? Fail to succeed?

     The delusion that I could mentor him towards productive change is just that. I would be the rulegiver and authority figure, and he's not inclined to pay much attention to rules and authority. The only voices he will hear at first are going to be hunger, discomfort, pain, and fear. I hope they get his attention in ways others can't.

      Yet he is family, and I'm thinking a bit about what obligation that places on me, and what obligations others feel towards family.

      I'll probably play Salvation Army a few times over the summer. A shower, a meal, and a sermon on the ride to the shelter. The first time he disrespects the house will be the last time he comes in. I was raised to believe that a bit of shared DNA puts a burden on me to offer something, at least conditionally. If he was a brother, I'd feel obligated to do a lot more. That's just me, I don't wish to judge.

      Assuming you were capable of doing it, how far would go to help such a relative? How far along the family tree does the obligation stretch?

If i had a relative like Your nephew Heretic, i would not allow them into my home -- period. Not even to shower.

It'd be hard to carry out that decision with the UM, but she'll never present me with that dilemma in real life.

i don't believe my purpose in belonging to my family is to serve's anyone's dysfunctional needs or wants.

pinksugarsub

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Post #: 28

RE: Family Values - 6/14/2008 9:17:23 PM

Asherdelampyr

Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      So I had a phone call this morning from a relative who is now pretty pissed off at me. It seems her 25 y/o son and his roomate have been evicted from the trailer they were renting, and he is homeless. He cannot stay with her, but since I have a big house...

I said no. I was a bit annoyed that she would even ask

    This is not a good, hardworking kid who hit a rough patch. No skills, anger issues, a piss-poor attitude, and the ever-popular entitlement mentality. Drugs? Oh you betcha, with convictions. He's not completely stupid, there is hope he can get himself together, but he is at a critical point.

     Setting aside the fact that I wouldn't trust him not to bring chaos into my home, letting him in would be the worst thing for him. I have all the comforts a lazy stoner could want; a/c, movie channels, x-box, fridge-freezer-pantry and even a massive old stereo system.   What lesson does he learn from that? Fail to succeed?

     The delusion that I could mentor him towards productive change is just that. I would be the rulegiver and authority figure, and he's not inclined to pay much attention to rules and authority. The only voices he will hear at first are going to be hunger, discomfort, pain, and fear. I hope they get his attention in ways others can't.

      Yet he is family, and I'm thinking a bit about what obligation that places on me, and what obligations others feel towards family.

      I'll probably play Salvation Army a few times over the summer. A shower, a meal, and a sermon on the ride to the shelter. The first time he disrespects the house will be the last time he comes in. I was raised to believe that a bit of shared DNA puts a burden on me to offer something, at least conditionally. If he was a brother, I'd feel obligated to do a lot more. That's just me, I don't wish to judge.

      Assuming you were capable of doing it, how far would go to help such a relative? How far along the family tree does the obligation stretch?

Id take him out to find a job, probably feed him
after a week I would do any more.... a lot of that has to do with the job market here, where people are practically begging to hire anyone

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Post #: 29

RE: Family Values - 6/15/2008 8:06:39 AM

sblady

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Joined: 9/28/2007
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I'd pay for a week at a decent motel and supply him with a Sunday newspaper to look through the classifieds. I've had relatives (i.e, siblings) and a few friends live with me for a very short time (no more than two weeks). My home is very peaceful and it was very stressful to arrive home from work to see them and/or their friends sprawled around in my home watching TV and complaining. One of my siblings and her young child was recently evicted from her home because of her gambling addiction; over the years I'd offered to pay her bills for her and give her the rest of her money to do whatever she wished but she could "handle" it. I often paid her bills from my already overextended budget and would purchase food and clothing for my niece. Most of my other siblings assisted her as well and in turn, we were her enablers. When she lost her home, some of my siblings and friends thought she would most likely move with me. Um, nope.

That being said, if you feel compelled to supply a shower, meal, preachin' and a ride to the shelter, go for it. Ultimately, he has to make the decision to get himself together or not. Good luck!!!

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 30

RE: Family Values - 6/15/2008 8:19:37 AM

PrincessDonna

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Joined: 7/7/2006
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Just keep in mind that in most states if you allow him to stay for 30 days and/or get mail at your place to get rid of him in the end you may have to do legal eviction process and that gets costly.The police wont even step in as it is civil at that point. Encourage him to get into a drug program and Salvation Army always has one close and you get to get some work experience!

(in reply to sblady)

Post #: 31

RE: Family Values - 6/15/2008 8:45:06 AM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
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To Most P/pl who have posted:

Man, Y/you Guys are much more generous than i.

Still doesn't change my mind.

The reality is, though i love my family, they're all f**king nuts. Even if they were normal, i'd still be extremey stressed by living with ANYONE else.

i'd take the UM -- and any g'UMs she may have -- into my home without charge at any point in her life.

Here's the 'flip side of the Op for me: if my brother had let me know i could come stay with them back when i was married, i'd have left my ex much, much sooner and thereby saved myself much, much suffering. i try not to feel any resentment towards my brother about this -- his excuse is he doesn't believe me that my ex was 'that bad'. A definate 'no-fly zone' for us.

My brother currently has one UM -- with no g'UM -- living with him. Unless he's prepared to pay my nephew's mortgage, i'm sure he'll soon have 2 UMs back in hs house. And my nephew has a g'UM.

i don't know how my brother manages to cope with the stress. To make matters worse IMO, they did have all the UMs out of the house for a brief time last year.

As for family; i love my UM, unconditionally. i love my brother. To a lesser degree, i love my neices and nephew. But my sister in law?

She can definately plan on sleeping in her car. No f**king way is she ever setting foot in my house again. There's nuts, and then there's just plain cruel. She cannot make the distinction.

*hugs to A/all*

pinksugarsub

< Message edited by pinksugarsub -- 6/15/2008 8:48:32 AM >

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Post #: 32

RE: Family Values - 6/15/2008 9:13:54 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

Still doesn't change my mind.

That was never the goal of the thread, Pink. I titled it, "Family Values" because this sort of obligation tends to get ingrained very young, as a core value. "Tradition" might be an easier way to think of it, without the judgmental connotations. I certainly don't wish to imply that this somehow makes my family superior to anybody elses. I might draw a few funny looks at the next family reunion if I slammed the door in his face the first time he showed up at it, but if he so much as swiped the change off the table by the door, they would be absolutely fine with me holding a permanent grudge about that.

How people feel about this is going to vary widely. Thanks for your replies.

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Post #: 33

RE: Family Values - 6/15/2008 10:01:35 AM

Termyn8or

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They are superior to you Heret......wait, I must rephrase that, gimme a minute.
(I left that in as a little reminder of the tricks the English languange can play on us)

To you, they are superior, as they should be, but you decide how much and in what way.

You can tell family to go fuck off. And then you can help a friend. It is all your decision. I think you made the right decision given the information provided.

How about another 25 year old. The son of some friends, or a different nephew or whatever. Maybe even a neighbor's kid, people that you know but have no other connection to. Well something happens to their house. You (and they) live very close to his college and his job. Well mannered, relatively clean. Has his own car.

So a tree falls on the house or something, it needs some serious work and he needs a place to stay. Can't quite offer you rent because he can only work part time because he goes to school. Offers to do some chores and help you with your projects. But no money.

What would you do ?

Anyway there is this saying - Treat friends like family and family like friends.

I find that saying interesting in this context.

T

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Post #: 34

RE: Family Values - 6/15/2008 10:33:39 AM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Assuming you were capable of doing it, how far would go to help such a relative? How far along the family tree does the obligation stretch?

Relatives...it'd stop with immediate family...however, women with extremely large tata's....I'm there for you honey.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 35

RE: Family Values - 6/15/2008 10:36:14 AM

TheHeretic

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That would be strictly on a case-by-case deal, Termy. Chores and participating in the work around the house would be an expectation along with paying some rent.

My wife's attitudes on this are similar to mine. We just take it for granted that sometimes our downstairs bedroom will be used by someone who needs it. But not by this kid.

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Post #: 36

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