RE: Iowa vs New Orleans

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subtee -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 1:32:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight Ken, try going up there and looking at it. A couple hundred yards doesn't cover it. Houses completely filled to the eaves, water in the streets up to the level of the sign posts, entire sections of town under water .... Maybe its not as big and pretty as NOLA was but it was where people lived. As for your numbers, you left out a few. You said 200,000 for Des Moines with only a percentage affected. Then there were 122,000 in Cedar Rapids ... with only some affected. Add the 62,000 in Iowa City .... but only some were affected. Then there are the cities that were the small towns that were almost completely destroyed by the flooding on its way to the big cities. This hit almost statewide. A couple of hundred yards to get away from it is a ridiculous statement. Just got off the phone with a client in Cedar Rapids. He had to evacuate his nice river front home. Total loss it appears. However he confirmed the flood only reaches about 200 yards from the usual river bank. News reports from Des Moines shows the same thing. Katrina affected an area around NOLA of 90,000 square miles (based on the disaster declarations) the floods happening right now are not even within a couple of orders of magnitude of that. As to population 500,000 is only the city of NOLA. All of southern LA had to be evacuated. The number affected dwarfs what is happening in the midwest right now. The AP reports that 400 city blocks surrounding the river were flooded.

Irishknight -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 2:00:02 PM)
There is another question that goes with this. As these waters move downriver, how many more people are going to become homeless? How many more levees will break? And of course, we are already forgetting all of those who were hit by this before it got to Iowa. To say that this doesn't compare to Katrina is denying reality. I would like to think that people have learned from the 93 floods and Katrina. I know its odd for me to be the one to actually want to think better of people but isn't that better than closing your eyes and denying whats really happening?

LaTigresse -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 2:06:19 PM)
Well, I see this thread is turning into the predictable political squabbling, crooked government, us against them, oh poor victims, with the usual culprits of nasty racist undercurrents, fucked up mess! Good job people!

lronitulstahp -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 2:13:31 PM)
Hugs to you subtee.... i get so tired of these threads constantly going in the same negative direction. Kudos to subtee, DomKen, and MusicalBoredom, and IK for trying to rise above the underhanded comments made uder the guise of feigned innocence, or indifference, or even the outright nasty and incendiary comments i see so often on these threads. Btw...lots of people couldn't afford to evacuate at the last minute in N.O. Compare the 2004-2005 per capita income to cities in Iowa. http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/lapi/2006/mpi0906.htm They're both tragedies, natural disasters. The government's (even local) response to one goes down in history as one of the saddest displays of indifference shown to citizens of this country, ever... Hopefully, people learned from the mistakes of the past. But the sort of turns these discussions seem to take so often here show that many people will never learn from the mistakes of those before them, and in fact, love to ruminate in the same ignorance that held sway long ago.

Cyrce -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 2:31:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight There is another question that goes with this. As these waters move downriver, how many more people are going to become homeless? How many more levees will break? And of course, we are already forgetting all of those who were hit by this before it got to Iowa. To say that this doesn't compare to Katrina is denying reality. I would like to think that people have learned from the 93 floods and Katrina. I know its odd for me to be the one to actually want to think better of people but isn't that better than closing your eyes and denying whats really happening? Thank-you for the mention that this flooding has already destroyed much of WI including areas not even considered to be at risk for flooding in the first place. I do believe the spirit of community will help us all in recovery. I am sorry that anyone has to deal with this. Get ready for food prices to soar. [sm=frown.gif]

stella41b -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 2:36:40 PM)
I may not appear to be the best qualified to post here being on this side of the Atlantic but I'm not convinced that this isn't just an argument over who coped best in a natural disaster. I've lived through the hurricane in London 1987 and also the terrible flooding in Poland in 1997 and from what I can remember a flood is a little different from a hurricane. I've also as a 15 year old had seven cans of sht kicked out of me by several police officers during the Mnnningham riots in Bradford in 1981 and am also a survivor of the IRA bombing of the Stock Exchange in London back in the 1980's. In the former I was trying to get to a place of safety - as the Special Patrol Group of the police appeared to have singled out the estate where I was living for a 'special patrol' and in the latter I was just doing my job as a cycle courier. The thing is not everybody thinks the way they should during a major disaster, there's fear, uncertainty, panic, and a survival instinct which doesn't always bring out the best in people. I remember witnessing Katrina via media reports in Poland, of witnessing the horror of something I couldn't quite understand, and the witnessing of the destruction of NOLA was heartbreaking as it is a very important city in terms of English language culture. This was a loss not just for Americans, but for anyone who speaks English as a native language. But then again it was a time when Americans showed their unity and their compassion for others and to witness this was something very touching and moving. I admit to a personal interest, as I have never directed a play in the States, and if it were possible the one city I'd choose to do it as a debut would be NOLA. I remember being moved so much to tears, and my prayers going out not just for the people of NOLA, but for all the affected areas and places such as Mississippi and Alabama. Similarly my prayers go out to the people of Iowa, and to the people in Michigan and other areas who have also suffered from the effects of storms, fallen trees and a loss of power. Again I am touched and moved by hearing of stories of compassion, of how people have pulled together, and that unity. But what I don't get is all this 'bullshit calling', the finger pointing, the hypothesizing, the blaming of the victims for the terrible misfortune they suffered including the loss of their whole livelihoods and worse.. the loss of loved ones. Am I to be blamed for having the sht kicked out of me by policemen in 1981? For being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Am I to hold it against the police because several of their officers laid into me in 1981? Hindsight is brilliant for knowing what should have been done, as is witnessing something from a distance, but the bottom line is that people did what they felt best at the time, it's now in the past, and no amount of speculation or hypothesizing is ever going to change it. It's history. I have nothing more to add, other than to say if you're in Iowa, Michigan, or elsewhere and you're recovering, suffering, or have survived intact, my thoughts and my prayers go out to you.

Irishknight -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 3:43:01 PM)
I was just reading about whats still coming. There are worries of a 'toxic tea" filled with sewage, pesticides and lots of other little goodies sitting around as the flood waters recede. They are also worried about towns along the Mississippi as these waters hit them. 80 + counties in Iowa alone are being declared disaster areas. Anyone know how the other states already hit are doing right now?

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 4:43:35 PM)
~fr~ if the shoe fits.... “You are stuck on stupid, I’m not going to answer that question” – - General Honore to reporter.

Griswold -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 6:37:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet So I ask, why are the people of Iowa not crying and complaining about the government as much as New Orleans did with its flood? Uhhhmmmmm....I could go there (but I won't).

hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 7:28:18 PM)
I haven't been following much on the flooding in Iowa. However, I drove along I90 (the old Coast Highway that runs within sight of the Gulf) yesterday, through Biloxi and then NOLA and Baton Rogue. I noticed some disturbing differences along that drive. Part of the reason that I drove that route specifically was to see how much difference there was between February of '07 and Now. In Biloxi - where I stopped for a late lunch/early dinner - the clean up was finished, the bridges reopened across the pair of bays on either side, and there was a massive amount of Construction taking place. When I went through there in 07, there was still a lot of clean up being done - a lot of debris still being removed, a lot of partially destroyed beachfront properties still waiting for demolition to be completed. The attitudes of the inhabitants didn't change between those 2 brief visits though. First time (07) they were determined to finish the clean up and then get started on rebuilding. Determined being the key word there. This time, they were still determined - determined to rebuild, better than before, and estatic that businesses were going back up and things are happening at an ever increasing pace. Then I drove the 45 minutes from Biloxi to NOLA. The change in atmosphere was the first thing I noticed when I stopped on the edge of New Orleans for gas. It was like the folks I saw were simply Resigned to things. There was still debris to be seen, as I got back on the highway and continued west. There's still LOTS of debris to be seen, in the same places I saw it on the previous drive along that same stretch of road. There was little in the way of Construction going on. There was little to be seen in the way of demolition of affected structures needing such finished so they could be rebuilt, either. But aside from the simple fact that Biloxi (also a direct hit, just like NOLa was) is rebuilding while New Orleans doesn't seem to be - it's the difference in attitude that's most noticable. The folks along the Missouri coastline are hard at it and determined. Eager to see it happen, and willing to do what they can to see that it does. Cross that state line, though, and it's like there's an invisible barrier in place until you get on the far side of New Orleans. Why are the people of Iowa not whining like the people who refused to evacuate NOLA did? Because their spirit hasn't been broken - either by nature, or by their own lack of preparation, or by the lack of preparation of their local authorities.

subtee -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 9:54:08 PM)
~FR Kittensol, Stella, LaT, Tulip, my loves, Musicalboredum, Irishknight, DomKen and anyone else I've inadvertantly left out--you who get it...Thank you. The pain here hangs like the humidity that chokes and makes it hard to breathe. We must not look away, it seems to me, and yet, it's wearying to see so many hurting so much. What do we deserve? By being here we deserve the blessings as much as we are worthy of the challenges.That's what I'm thinking tonight.

shorty21 -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 10:22:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rubberpet quote: ORIGINAL: shorty21 quote: ORIGINAL: rubberpet quote: ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet So I ask, why are the people of Iowa not crying and complaining about the government as much as New Orleans did with its flood? Are you fucking kidding me???!!! The only thing more disgraceful than the way the state and federal governments fucked up was the way people were looting everything they could get their hands on like 20 pairs of Nikes at a time, flat panel TVs, jewelry, and things like that. The state and federal governments hung New Orleans out to dry. The federal government won't let another New Orleans fiasco happen. They'll bust their ass to get aid there as quickly as possible. What happened in Iowa is no doubt a tragedy, but it wasn't nearly as bad as New Orleans because there was so much loss of life. Best wishes to those in Iowa and other flooded areas. May God be with you. I CALL BULLSHIT FROM FUCKING HELL. Are you here???? Are you in a flood zone in IOWA?>?????? I think fucking not so guess what. You are damn wrong as I have been saying in the last 3 fucking posts. I am IN Des Moines. WE USED COMMON SENSE AND LEARNED FORM THE FLOOD IN 93!!! WE DON;T NEED THE DAMN FEMA. We actually LISTEN to the people who come banging on our doors saying "Hey...kindly get the fuck out by 6 pm. " ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? Oh and guess what...we didn;t have such a loss of life between the major cities because we listened...and those of us who did need to be rescued didnt SHOOT THE FUCKING VOLUNTEERS!! I have a lovely little bullet hole in my arm and damned if I will EVER help out in NOLA again...sorry but...I don't want a matching one on the other arm. As far as looting and shit. YEAH common sense...its flooding..HELLO?!?! get out of NOLA...or loot faster one of the two. This si what pisses me off...How can you compare something like NOLA with Iowa when we have a Mayor who doesnt pocket our rescue and aid funds. I dare someone to bring up race one more time...I need to yell some more. Until you come here and see what the fuck we are dealing with....BACK OFF. Claim as much as you want or think you know about NOLA...you werent there for that one either...I bet most of you have never even been through a hurricane like my family has. I was born during hugo and survived Andrew, Floyd Dennis and had a close run in with Rita. Just 2 weeks ago I had a tornado rip through my place of work. Now tell me something. am I sposed to blame my government for not getting that tree out of my living room??? Or maybe the loss of my cats???? or maybe,.,..just maybe....when you listen to people saying hey..this is gonna be nasty..maybe we should go...GET OFF YOUR ASS AND GO!!! FUCK YOUR PICTURES...FUCK YOUR PRECIOUS LIVING OR BEDROOM SETS....GO!!! This gets fucking ridiculous...I think I may go beat the crap out of my punching bag now...later Damn, shorty...that wasn't directed toward me in any way, was it? nah....I'm just so tired of poeple here in the flood zones being compared to those in NOLA....seriously... We had 1 days warning to go.... NOLA had 4-6 days.... It pisses me off to no fucking end. And as for as having crackheads or whatever else...and you live in perfectfuckingville???? EVERY town, city, borough....they all have drug addicts.... I couldn't give a shit less if they are jonesing....They didn;t loot our stores... Just saying....

jlf1961 -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/16/2008 10:58:43 PM)
There were more than a number of BIG differences about New Orleans and the entire Katrina land fall area and Iowa. Number one, the governors of the coastal states impacted by katrina did not have the personnel to deploy to deal with the day after problems, you see, most of the Lousiana, Mississippi and Alabama national guard units were deployed in IRAQ. The Army Corp of Engineers had been screaming about the levee situation for close to 20 years... congress ignored them. People didnt start shooting at rescuers for five days after the flooding began. Forced evacuations would not have worked in New Orleans for one simple reason, THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH TRANSPORTATION AVAILABLE! The Super Dome and Convention centers were shelters of last resort and only meant to be used for less than 24 hours. With no national guard units available to the governors of the states in question, there was no way to get ground rescue personnel into the hardest hit areas. (FYI, President Bush had been warned prior to the Iraqi invasion that due to the need to deploy massive numbers of national guard troops in the combat zone, the ability of states to react to natural disasters would be severly limited if not made impossible.) The national guard units that did finally arrive were from other states, Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, Ohio, and Kentucky. And those were not released to assist until four days after landfall. By all means, lets blame all the people who did not evacuate because they really had no way to do so for not leaving. Forget about the fact that when the governor issued the order, she did not release any of the available school buses for the task. In fact ALL of the school buses in New Orleans ended up UNDER WATER! And you know something, if I had been waiting for rescue for a couple of days, with no food, no water, the bodies of the dead floating by, and listening to battery powered radios about what was going on, I think I might have taken a few shots myself. And now for some more really good news: If a major hurricane comes ashore anywhere along the gulf coast or south eastern atlantic coast, we can expect the same problems, since most of the national guard troops are still deployed in Iraq. The same is true if a major earthquake hit on the west coast, for example if a major rupture on the San Andraes, or cascadia fault zone. Wont be many people there to help with rescue... they too are in Iraq.

sappatoti -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/17/2008 8:44:36 AM)
~ Fast Reply ~ Does anyone know how New Orleans will be dealing with the current floodwaters once they reach there? All this water in the upper and middle MidWest has to go somewhere, and New Orleans is the last major city before the Mississippi dumps into the Gulf. Are the levees up to the task? Is evac transportation available and on standby should they be needed? I'm not hearing or seeing any discussion on this yet. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not ignoring the real damage and devastation being felt by those underwater now. Good lord I'm not. I used to live in the Quad Cities, near where the Rock River dumps into the Mississippi. I remember the annual floods as well as the major ones that put the Quad Cities under water. I'm just saying that I see all of this chatter about comparing floods of now with the Katrina floods. Has New Orleans learned enough from Katrina to implement their own plans should these current floodwaters tear out more levees? Or, are they going to fall back into waiting for help from the outside?

subtee -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/17/2008 8:55:19 AM)
This is a really good point and I will look into it. I know there a levees failing on the Mississippi now... Thank you, Sappa

shorty21 -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/17/2008 10:25:55 AM)
As far as NOLA being flooded again I atleast have thought of this and re-instated my national volunteer card...both through red cross and RN's with hearts....a local group for CMA's and RN's and other such nurse like people to go to places affected by floods, tornadoes, and such to be shipped down and help with wounded or even clean up...gags..vomits a little Hard to stomach sometimes but you can bet your ass I will be wearing kevlar this time..lol If you would like to help out call or go to the Red Cross website.... RN's with hearts does not have a website at this point but we are looking for a web designer at this moment as we are a brand new group.

popeye1250 -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/17/2008 11:45:13 AM)
I made a donation to the Red Cross yesterday "earmarked" for the Iowa flood victims.

subtee -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/17/2008 11:46:44 AM)
~jumps on Popeye~ Thank you for doing that

MusicalBoredom -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/17/2008 11:51:54 AM)
Awesome popeye. I was so lost in my own world and I hadn't yet. Had to fix that. fyi the online link is http://american.redcross.org

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Iowa vs New Orleans (6/17/2008 11:58:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Popeye Bounty, what I couldn't figure out was why so many people were walking around with stolen television sets and other electrical appliances. There was no power anywhere. Where did they think they were going to plug them in? Well Popeye maybe they had in mind to steal a genator or two smiles,Like I stated its the Mind set completely different in this case..While there are some good people in NO there is a bunch of thugs as well ,placing all those people in the super doom was crazy..WE had a farm on the river and every year or so we had to leave lock stock and barrel so we solved the problem by moving to this old home place on the mountain top..I too cut a check for the red cross marked for the mid west not very large but it was some thing we all can do...

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