Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (Full Version)

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hawk58 -> Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 9:34:17 AM)

Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating....

In a lifestyle that supports polyamourous activity- what would you
consider cheating?

In an open relationship, how open is open? Do both parties have the
freedom to be with others of their own choosing? Or is only One
allowed to be with others? Or make the choices or the other?

To say one is "poly" does that mean they are in a house which is in
fidelity to one another, or is it to say that they enjoy multiple
partners outside of a primary relationship?

The reason i ask, is that recently we were getting to know a potential
2nd. There seemed to be very different definitions on what it meant to
be "poly".

Our ideal of a poly household- is there being 3 of us. One Dom, and 2
girls- who are exclussive property of the Dom. Having sexaul
relationships with only those members in the house. Of being a family
unit.

This other girl wanted a relationship with a Dom, who would pass her
around to all of His friends, for Their use. And being able to keep
the multiple partners she already engages with. She was very big into
her own sexual gratification, and needs/wants.

Just some questions i have had in my own head of late.

-dove



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 9:45:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hawk58
In a lifestyle that supports polyamourous activity- what would you
consider cheating?

I agree with what someone else said (kudos to you) cheating = deception.
quote:


In an open relationship, how open is open?

However you want it to be.

quote:

Do both parties have the
freedom to be with others of their own choosing?

For me, yes.

quote:

Or is only One
allowed to be with others?

For many, yes.
quote:


To say one is "poly" does that mean they are in a house which is in
fidelity to one another, or is it to say that they enjoy multiple
partners outside of a primary relationship?

Yes. Poly just means "multiple intimate partners" Whether it's closed or open or HOW you go about having those multiple partners is totally dependent on those involved.
quote:


Our ideal of a poly household- is there being 3 of us. One Dom, and 2
girls- who are exclussive property of the Dom. Having sexaul
relationships with only those members in the house. Of being a family
unit.

This is a very typical Ds poly situation. But that's not what "poly" is.
quote:


This other girl wanted a relationship with a Dom, who would pass her
around to all of His friends, for Their use. And being able to keep
the multiple partners she already engages with. She was very big into
her own sexual gratification, and needs/wants.

Sounds good to me too. I wish more people were open and accepting of what they need to be happy, especially when it comes to sex.

I'm open poly. I have long-term life commitments to multiple people. That means they have certain priorities in my life. We are all open to whatever relationships we want to form with whoever we want to form them with.

I also happen to have lots of casual sex and play, too...that's not being poly, that's just being an active slut.

Do what works for you.



wipmebeetme100 -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 10:01:54 AM)

quote:

This other girl wanted a relationship with a Dom, who would pass her
around to all of His friends, for Their use. And being able to keep
the multiple partners she already engages with. She was very big into
her own sexual gratification, and needs/wants.



Woo Hoo.....gotta love it when someone knows what they want and need.
I myself am a very hedonistic person, sexually and otherwise. This is my life...the
only one i will have....damn-it, it is gonna be all that i want....and more!

Oh....and to answer your question...poly will be different things to different people. You have determined what it is to you, now to find someone whose definition of poly parellels your own.

cathy



Faramir -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 10:32:01 AM)

For us it would be doin it behind her back, not including her.
If I fuck another girl in front of her - that's hot.

If I do it behind her back, that's cheating.



Kasia -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 11:48:22 AM)

Our definition is that we are polysexual but not polyamorous, meaning we dont share deeper emotions with anyone else. Sex yes, romance no.
Otherwise, we would both consider cheating to be, like Faramir said, "If I do it behind her back, that's cheating". I dont have to be present, but he has to have my permission to get sexually involved with others and vice versa.

Actually we do it together all the time, for me its more arousing to see than to imagine and there is always possibility of joining. Since single girls are a bit hard to find and couples tend to complicate things, recently we only had single male partners.



thetammyjo -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 12:08:40 PM)

hawk58, I think your post is a perfect example of why we should never assume what another person means by the terms.

In my house, poly means that anyone of us can have another sexual or romantic partner but it must be with the full knowledge and consent of the others and that this household is the primary focus.

My definition is mine and those in my life must accept it or not be in a relationship with me. That's the way this all goes, isn't it?

We need to spend more time defining and explaining our words than merely tossing words about. So in short, I can say that your definition of poly is yours, clearly this other person was using the same word quite differently.



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 12:37:54 PM)

Let me throw a curve here. What if the other person intends it only as an online "friendship?" What if his or her spoken intentions are only to be friends even though the partner would not know about it?



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 12:48:36 PM)

The tricky part of poly relationships is making sure everyone understands that it's MORE work to keep a poly relationship going, because you are responsible to more people. It's a happy thought, being able to have your needs met by multiple companions----after all, there is no perfect "other" except in fairy tales----but avoiding jealousy, and accepting that we are NOT the be all and end all of our partner's life in every area can be hard.

Ms F



candystripper -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 12:49:11 PM)

i have poly friends; and i myself am seeking a completely monogamous relationship. For my friends "poly" generally does not mean residing together; it means the Dom has a wife and a girlfriend subbie, who has to care for herself as a single woman.

i think many people, of any stripe, would answer the question "what if we are just friends, but i hide the relationship from my partner?' by asking "why is it being hidden?" There's something there that crosses a boundary; might start an argument; or the Man hopes the "friend" will become "more" and is not willing to share that journey...all suppositions that lead me back to the same question" "why hide the relationship?".

i think, no matter the nature of the established relationship(s), the "hidden friend" is a breach; or at least problematic.

candystripper



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 12:50:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel
Let me throw a curve here. What if the other person intends it only as an online "friendship?" What if his or her spoken intentions are only to be friends even though the partner would not know about it?

If you feel you can't be open with it, then there's a problem, I don't care if it's holding hands, anal sex or going to wash the car.



twistedphoenix -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 12:57:11 PM)

active slut of not ..You know people still get hurt when others just want to use them for a fuck for I am sorry sex or no sex it is still something very intimate as something done with emotion is intimate..if you choose to be a slut doesnt mean it is poly ..Poly has alot more to do with then sex ..

Twisted Phoenix..

PS sorry this is in reply to LuckyAlbatross



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 1:00:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twistedphoenix
active slut of not ..You know people still get hurt when others just want to use them for a fuck

Hmmm my personal experience and those of many people I know would say otherwise. If you are open and honest about what you are doing (which I am) and they agree with it...well there's no reason they should be hurt than any other sort of relationship.
quote:

it is still something very intimate as something done with emotion is intimate

I have extremely emotional and intimate sex. And I have completely pointless fun sex. Some people can do both.
quote:


..if you choose to be a slut doesnt mean it is poly ..Poly has alot more to do with then sex ..

I completely agree, in fact I tried to make that as explicitly clear in my original response as possible when I said:
I also happen to have lots of casual sex and play, too...that's not being poly, that's just being an active slut.



justatoy2 -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 1:09:26 PM)

i have a question...what is wrong with a girl being into her own sexual gratification. Just because one is submissive doesn't mean they are dead.



candystripper -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 1:11:16 PM)

quote:

active slut of not ..You know people still get hurt when others just want to use them for a fuck for I am sorry sex or no sex it is still something very intimate as something done with emotion is intimate..if you choose to be a slut doesnt mean it is poly ..Poly has alot more to do with then sex ..

Twisted Phoenix..


i think that is one of myriad problems with a promiscuous/sex addicted person's conduct. Many/most people attach an emotional component to the act of being intimate, and are left behind, feeling a bit bereft -- or worse -- as the promiscuous person flits on to someone else.

The feeling of having been deceived and used is a sad feeling in any context, but in an intimate setting, it is a real heart blow.

This underscores the need for moving slowly enough that your partner and you have discussed expectations and whether a relationship or a one-night stand is on offer.

candystripper



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 1:38:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
i think that is one of myriad problems with a promiscuous/sex addicted person's conduct.

I think it's a problem only if
a) the person isn't made aware of the situation up front
b) the person lies to themselves about being able to handle it
c) the person finds out the hard way that they couldn't handle it

And ANY of those things can and do occur in EVERY type of relationship- long term lifetime marriages included. In fact, this isn't even a problem with the slut, it's a problem with the person who agrees to be with the slut.

Ethically I try and choose partners who I make a good judgement on that us being together will be a good thing, short and long term. I actually consider this when I have sex with my long term partners as well. But if I'm seeing green lights, being honest, and the other person goes with it...don't make it a problem with MY behavior if you end up regretting it.
quote:


Many/most people attach an emotional component to the act of being intimate, and are left behind, feeling a bit bereft -- or worse -- as the promiscuous person flits on to someone else.

If the person needs emotional attachment, why are they having sex casually? Did the other partner lie to them? Or did they lie to themselves about being able to handle it? Did they build false expectations?
quote:


The feeling of having been deceived and used is a sad feeling in any context, but in an intimate setting, it is a real heart blow.

This assumes the slut was deceptive. Not a fair assumption to make at all.

People can and are deceived and used in ALL relationships, this is not at all unique to casual sex. I'm not saying it's good or ok, but don't make it sound like it's unique or something specifically related to being a slut.
quote:


This underscores the need for moving slowly enough that your partner and you have discussed expectations and whether a relationship or a one-night stand is on offer.

Agreed, everyone should be honest and up front about what they want and need and expect with eachother and should ACCEPT that as truth. Not think they will be special or different or make the other person change.



SadistDave -> RE: Definitions- poly & multiple partners & cheating.... (11/4/2005 2:03:38 PM)

For me the distinction is pretty clear. I do not accept monogamy as a healthy life choice for a variety of reasons. I believe that sex is a healthy extension of any relationship in which sex is desired by two or more parties.

Everyone has a different take on it, but I tend to define the terms this way.

Poly relationships involve everyone on an emotional level. Open relationships do not.

I have a hard time with the concept of cheating and open sexuality of any sort. We generally define a cheater as someone who engages in sex without the other persons knowledge. While thats a fair thing to say by the rules of monogamy, I don't see them as applicable in either a poly or open relationship.

When a relationship reaches a point at which any sort of open sexuality is pursued, the idea that anyone has domain over someone elses sexual behavior is moot. The idea is now that everyone must act responsibly in their open sexuality so that others in the relationship do not get hurt. Such relationships require a high degree of trust and an intimate knowledge of the habits of the primary sexual partner to even reach that stage.

The idea of "I can only trust you if I know about it." is wrongful thinking where multiple partners are concerned. It is the product of "Now that I know about it, I can no longer trust you."

"I can only trust you if I know about it." is the exit excuse. You are now free to do what you choose with your body as long as the other person knows. What remains unspoken in that thinking is that failure to fully disclose your sexual encounters will hinder or end the relationship. Or, to put it another way, you may only be "open" with permission. So now the person not engaging an a given sexual activity has the method to maintain control of your sexuality.

I see this as a way for people to involve themselves in open sexual behavior, yet to maintain a connection to the monogamous values of our society. Social values rarely translate well from one social system to another. Let's face it, alternative lifestyles like BDSM or polyamory are different social systems from the norm. Hence the phrase "Alternative Lifestyle."

IMHO, "I trust you." is a more complete statement of love in a relationship involving open sexuality.

So I can only define a cheater as someone who knowingly and willingly disregards that trust and love by engaging in sexual activity in some way that would harm their primary partner (s).

-SD-



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