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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 7:36:41 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

All well and good CL and even granting that it is that simple...this is also simple Your personal financial well being is not indicative of a healthy middle-class..and in no way lessens the effects of a poor housing market globalization ,outsourcing,downsizing and the undereducation of the American working class...has all lead to a shrinki9ng of the middle class...despite Your own personal rejection of debt....

At the risk of sounding like a flame attack....where in all of this does personal responsibility come in?

If people are "undereducated", why are they not taking every opportunity to educate themselves?

If old jobs are disappearing, why aren't people adapting to new jobs?

If people used their homes as revolving charge accounts and now can't pay the bill....who is responsible for that?

Why must personal financial distress be a public crisis?


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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 7:52:00 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

All well and good CL and even granting that it is that simple...this is also simple Your personal financial well being is not indicative of a healthy middle-class..and in no way lessens the effects of a poor housing market globalization ,outsourcing,downsizing and the undereducation of the American working class...has all lead to a shrinki9ng of the middle class...despite Your own personal rejection of debt....

At the risk of sounding like a flame attack....where in all of this does personal responsibility come in?

If people are "undereducated", why are they not taking every opportunity to educate themselves?

If old jobs are disappearing, why aren't people adapting to new jobs?

If people used their homes as revolving charge accounts and now can't pay the bill....who is responsible for that?

Why must personal financial distress be a public crisis?

It becomes a public crisis when a whole class of people are threatened.No argument at all that some of these problems are in the realm of personal responsibility,but on the other hand when people lose their jobs to outsourcing ,when whole industries disappear in search of cheap labor abroad,when pension plans are drying up...when health care costs are skyrocketing and any prolonged illness can wipe out the best laid plans...we have left the realm of "personal responsibility" and entered a societal arena

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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 7:56:41 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

It becomes a public crisis when a whole class of people are threatened.No argument at all that some of these problems are in the realm of personal responsibility,but on the other hand when people lose their jobs to outsourcing ,when whole industries disappear in search of cheap labor abroad,when pension plans are drying up...when health care costs are skyrocketing and any prolonged illness can wipe out the best laid plans...we have left the realm of "personal responsibility" and entered a societal arena

Why?



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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 8:17:21 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		No man is an island...would be the simple answer...a more complex one would be a study of real estate prices in a neighborhood with a recent spate of foreclosures...or the effect on the small business owner when the town plant closes(and the jobs go overseas)choose which ever one you like but an economy is a fragile thing ...and recovery is harder the longer its allowed to freefall...4 more years of Republican leadership and we won't be using terms like downturns or recessions we will be arguing whether or not we are in a depression..

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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 8:24:45 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

No man is an island...would be the simple answer...a more complex one would be a study of real estate prices in a neighborhood with a recent spate of foreclosures...or the effect on the small business owner when the town plant closes(and the jobs go overseas)choose which ever one you like but an economy is a fragile thing ...and recovery is harder the longer its allowed to freefall...4 more years of Republican leadership and we won't be using terms like downturns or recessions we will be arguing whether or not we are in a depression..

True, no man is an island, but I also am not my brother's keeper.

As for real estate prices....what has that to do with people using home equity irresponsibly?

I am a small business owner, and have been for ten years.  Survived clients bankruptcies and the dot com "bomb" and am still here to tell the tale.

No, an economy is not a fragile thing.  So long as people are willing to work, willing to transact, willing to engage in commerce with their fellow man, there will be an economy,and it will be largely healthy.

This is where you and I differ philosophically.  When confronted with challenge we can respond with hope or with despair.  We can trust to our own native genius to solve a problem or we can give up, surrender, and ultimately perish.

My answer is and has always been a simple one.  I do not give up; I do not surrender; I do not perish.


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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 8:31:45 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, it has come down to what you can be comfortable wish verses what you cannot be comfortable with. 
I am very uncomfortable with McCain.  He is too old in my opinion.  We need change even if it is wrong.  We cannot continue to finance this war. 
Obama has begun to really imerge as a Presidential candidate lately.  He is young.   He has ideas.  People like him.  I want to see an America that loves all of it's people regardless of the race or gender.  
He has made an effort to do away with government Presidential backing already.   I am very excited at some of his ideas.  Some I do not like, but what other choice do we have.  Let this young man use his talents and create an America that will be for all Americans.
 
Regards, MissSCD

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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 8:34:23 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

He has ideas.

None of which are original and all of which are failures.

Skill with the teleprompter is not a Presidential qualification.


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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 8:49:42 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		  I`m voting for Rev, Wright,the radical Muslim ,because he wants to surrender to the world`s dictators and the terrorists.

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 8:52:46 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		I'm voting for Jack.

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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 8:59:58 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Really?  The Constitution Party's Jack, like popeye?

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 6/22/2008 9:04:56 PM >

(in reply to celticlord2112)
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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 9:08:06 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		Really

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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 9:08:30 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

All well and good CL and even granting that it is that simple...this is also simple Your personal financial well being is not indicative of a healthy middle-class..and in no way lessens the effects of a poor housing market globalization ,outsourcing,downsizing and the undereducation of the American working class...has all lead to a shrinki9ng of the middle class...despite Your own personal rejection of debt....

At the risk of sounding like a flame attack....where in all of this does personal responsibility come in?

If people are "undereducated", why are they not taking every opportunity to educate themselves?

If old jobs are disappearing, why aren't people adapting to new jobs?

If people used their homes as revolving charge accounts and now can't pay the bill....who is responsible for that?

Why must personal financial distress be a public crisis?



"Why must personal financial distress be a public crisis?"


            It`s not.

It is however,one of many economic barometers and one measure of the health of the nation`s financial house.

The republicans love to take credit for any good news that happens.But if you`re going to take the credit,you get the criticism too.

That`s how a presidency is scored,and always has been scored.The economic stats,consumer confidence,jobs lost and jobs created,number and nature of scandals,foreign policy successes,trade deals,inflation rates,savings rates,foreclosure rates,standard of living,trade deficit,national debt and so on.

It`s those things, that people have used to judge a president`s term(s) for decades now.

Fair or un-fair,that`s how it`s done and you don`t get to opt out of that b/c your guy looks like Vlad the impaler.

McSame is just going to continue Bush policy.

You`re for that?

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 9:12:58 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

McSame is just going to continue Bush policy.

You`re for that?

McCain wants to make the tax cuts permanent.

Damn skippy I'm for that.


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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 9:15:32 PM   
abcbsex


Posts: 478
Joined: 3/29/2008
Status: offline 		to break up the seriousness a bit... (and quite possible lower my IQ points...)

I think I've got a little man-crush on Obama. Just a little bit. Especially when he's talking to the press and answers in complete sentences with that deep, soothing voice... *fans self*

Back to your regularly scheduled political bickering!

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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 9:19:01 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I don't have a horse in this race, the guy I was going to vote for conceded a while ago.

I can't vote for either McCain nor Obama, they are two sides of the same corrupt coin.






No candidate here, either.

It wouldn't matter to me if the perspective candidate was 5'4, 370lbs with green hair and all their front teeth missing.... As long as they were willing to give the trans-global corporations, and in the larger sense, globalism and the subversive treaties it brings, a swift kick in the balls, they'd have my vote.

Globalism {Slave-labor goods from China, NAFTA, CAFTA and GAT}

Federal Reserve {Un-elected privatized, central banking system}

Neo-Liberalism /Corporatism.


You fix/correct the subjects I've listed above...... the wedge issues--they like to isolate and scare you with--- with regard to Guns, Gays and Gas, will all become irrelevant.




- R


< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 6/22/2008 9:20:19 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 9:19:18 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

McSame is just going to continue Bush policy.

You`re for that?

McCain wants to make the tax cuts permanent.

Damn skippy I'm for that.



And why should taxes payed on investments, not be at the level you and I pay?

Are labor and wages worth less than investment income?

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 9:27:11 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

McSame is just going to continue Bush policy.

You`re for that?

McCain wants to make the tax cuts permanent.

Damn skippy I'm for that.



And why should taxes payed on investments, not be at the level you and I pay?

Are labor and wages worth less than investment income?

Ultimately, yes

Investment powers business expansion.  Wages do not.

If we're talking dividend income, it shouldn't be taxed at all because it's already been taxed at the business level.


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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 9:41:24 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

McSame is just going to continue Bush policy.

You`re for that?

McCain wants to make the tax cuts permanent.

Damn skippy I'm for that.



And why should taxes payed on investments, not be at the level you and I pay?

Are labor and wages worth less than investment income?

Ultimately, yes

Investment powers business expansion.  Wages do not.

If we're talking dividend income, it shouldn't be taxed at all because it's already been taxed at the business level.



ah wahh?

Income is income.You pay taxes on income.No one gets a free ride.Or shouldn`t.

Any disparity imposed means the rest of us,those who pay income taxes,must take up the shifted tax burden.

Wallstreet traders and speculators,folks with Cayman Island tax shelters should pay their taxes just like the rest of us.

Why are you fighting for the up-troden moneyed class?And why do you want to give them our money?

No one wants to pay taxes,but unless you`re going to cut taxes for everyone,lol, or eliminate them for everyone(yeah, that`ll happen),it will be un-fair.

No one wants to pay rent or the cable bill.So the fuck what?

There should be no free lunch,especially if the middle class tax payer is paying for the free lunch.

By the way,didn`t McSame vote against the taxes cuts and only recently "flip-flopped"?

What changed?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/22/2008 9:48:30 PM >

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 9:52:03 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Since the majority of US citizens only have the foresight of seeing two canidates, I'm going with McCain. For some reason, too many people still doubt there power of election a 3rd Party or Independant canidate into the white house.

I think McCain has a higher probablility of dying or having a serious medical complication while in office. This will keep him from having a second term.

I still do no know who the offical running mates are. I think this is one of the rare times in US History that it's the running mate who will win this years presidental election.

If I find myself voting for Obama, it would be under the idea of  "Why the hell not? He thinks he has what it takes, let's see what he's made of." 



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RE: Why are you FOR your candidate? - 6/22/2008 9:54:41 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

Income is income.You pay taxes on income.No one gets a free ride.Or shouldn`t.
Income is not rarely just income.  Therein lies the problem.

The self-employed contractor and the W-2 employee can perform substantially the same work but incur vastly different expenses.  Is it fair/equitable they be taxed the same?

quote:

Any disparity imposed means the rest of us,those who pay income taxes,must take up the shifted tax burden.

The classic populist argument.  The counter is that an expanding economy and expanding tax base can more than compensate. 

quote:

By the way,didn`t McSame vote against the taxes cuts and only recently "flip-flopped"?

Yes he did.

quote:

What changed?

The tax cuts got enacted anyway.  Doing away with them now raises my taxes, so I'm quite at ease accepting his explanation of that shift.


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