For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (Full Version)

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Griswold -> For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 5:22:36 PM)


NASA sent up a little space / Mars probe the other day (well, actually, probably a year or two ago...or however long it takes from here to there)....and they found what appeared to be ice.

And, in the photo taken some hours later...it disappeared.  Something that say, salt, wouldn't have done (unless there was possibly a Martian marguerita walking around just outside the camera lens that no one knew about).

Anyway...that clearly suggests water, which conversely suggests life as we've come to know it.

So, I was watching an old science show (Cosmos w/Carl Sagan..."Billions and Billions") on TV a while ago while doing some laundry, and a thought occurred to me;  Clearly there are plants, algae, and other growing things that do well in the Arctic.

And as clearly, we can send robots up there to dig holes and send back scoops of dirt.

We can send cars to the moon that carry guys around so they can take a tee shot towards the next crater...and...by extension, we should be able to send a robot to Mars that could germinate a few hundred algae or some such and see if we could start a terra form or some sort.

The water's there.

A lot of folks think that's how life started on Earth.  I'm not so sure I'm one of them, but it's fairly plausible actually.

So...if we did that, would the agency (in this case, NASA) need to get permission from some world consensus before we brought a "life" or living thing to another planet?

Is this something worth doing?

Kinda seems like an amazing concept to me.




Lumus -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 5:25:01 PM)

o/` I wanna...
send a probe...
to URAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANUSSSSSSSSS...





Griswold -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 5:44:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lumus

o/` I wanna...
send a probe...
to URAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANUSSSSSSSSS...




Trust me....NASA hasn't been there, but I can assure you...there's absolutely no life there whatsoever.




celticlord2112 -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 5:44:35 PM)

quote:

And, in the photo taken some hours later...it disappeared. Something that say, salt, wouldn't have done (unless there was possibly a Martian marguerita walking around just outside the camera lens that no one knew about).

Let me know when they find the hidden cache of Romulan ale. 




beargonewild -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 5:45:24 PM)

I call dibs on the Klingon blood wine




Lumus -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 5:45:43 PM)

*photoshops celtic's ears until they're pointy*

EGAD!





celticlord2112 -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 5:45:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lumus
o/` I wanna...
send a probe...
to URAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANUSSSSSSSSS...

We need a rim-shot smiley around here, don't we?




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 5:50:06 PM)

we are off spring of aliens from another galaxy...we did not origionate on earth.






Griswold -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 7:24:59 PM)


(Well, dammit LOL....I thought this would be an interesting topic....but it hasn't quite turned out as planned [:)])




TheHeretic -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 7:36:08 PM)

       It's a great topic, Gris.  I'd say we should put a lot more time and effort into seeing what might already be there or used to be there, before we start planting new stuff.


      That hijacking rule seems mighty hit or miss sometimes, don't it?  Beavis and Butthead live.




celticlord2112 -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 7:41:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold


(Well, dammit LOL....I thought this would be an interesting topic....but it hasn't quite turned out as planned [:)])


That's because you forgot the Romulan ale and Klingon blood wine.

Interesting topics on a Sunday require copious quantities of alcohol.  You of all people should understand that![8D]




fluffyswitch -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 7:49:24 PM)

i've thought about this before...i had an uncle that worked at NASA that was adament that i was going to be a rocket scientist regardless of the fact that i can barely add and hate physics. he used to send me boxes of all this astrophysics stuff.

what would be the point? we can terra form all we want but we still dont' have the technology to easily get anyone there to do anything with it. i guess it would be interesting in the sense of seeing if it could work, but then the sociopolitical aspects would kick in too. who owns mars? who should own mars? who gets to go there? and what not.




jlf1961 -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 8:28:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold


NASA sent up a little space / Mars probe the other day (well, actually, probably a year or two ago...or however long it takes from here to there)....and they found what appeared to be ice.


Gris, NASA knew about the polar ice years ago, this is the first time they got around to actually checking it out.  In fact the entire surface of mars indicates that at one time there was flowing water on the planet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold
And, in the photo taken some hours later...it disappeared.  Something that say, salt, wouldn't have done (unless there was possibly a Martian marguerita walking around just outside the camera lens that no one knew about).

Anyway...that clearly suggests water, which conversely suggests life as we've come to know it.


It suggests the possibility of life as we know it.  In all the probes sent to mars, none have detected a trace of life.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold
So, I was watching an old science show (Cosmos w/Carl Sagan..."Billions and Billions") on TV a while ago while doing some laundry, and a thought occurred to me;  Clearly there are plants, algae, and other growing things that do well in the Arctic.

And as clearly, we can send robots up there to dig holes and send back scoops of dirt.

We can send cars to the moon that carry guys around so they can take a tee shot towards the next crater...and...by extension, we should be able to send a robot to Mars that could germinate a few hundred algae or some such and see if we could start a terra form or some sort.

The water's there.

A lot of folks think that's how life started on Earth.  I'm not so sure I'm one of them, but it's fairly plausible actually.

So...if we did that, would the agency (in this case, NASA) need to get permission from some world consensus before we brought a "life" or living thing to another planet?

Is this something worth doing?

Kinda seems like an amazing concept to me.



Well Gris, it is not that amazing as it sounds.  First we send up algae that can live in an oxygen poor atmosphere, actually any plant that can live in that kind of atmosphere, lichens, moss, algae, dont matter really.  Just as long as it uses photosynthesis.

Once we get the oxygen levels up to say, the equivalent of standing on top of Mt Everest, we send up more complex plants, like desert tolerent grasses.

Of course, in theory we could speed things along if Europa is actually covered with water ice by sending out ships to that moon, mine the ice, ship it back to mars and melt it.

Now once there is a breathable atmosphere, we got to make it so that it will not allow any harmful radiation through, so we have to create an ozone layer.  And we have to warm it up a bit... so we have to create a greenhouse effect.

Once all that is done, we figure out just who we are going to send up there as colonists, and ship off about a third of earth's population.  By that time we should have space craft that can mine the asteroid belt, so we send another third to the belt as miners so they can try to get rich.....

That brings earth's population down to a more managable level....

So then Greedy can take over the planet........




TheHeretic -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/22/2008 10:06:20 PM)

        Given the length of time the sort of process we are talking about would take, and that we could start a program right now to put people there in 20 years or less, I'm not sure there would be a hell of a lot of benefit beyond having some initial research going when we get there.  Still worth doing, but most likely the first humans to inhabit the first outpost would be tasked with figuring out why it failed.

       Once we figure out where the station will be, remotely seeding the area with anything and everything that might thrive seems a reasonable plan... Unless it somehow mutates with some Martian bacteria and turns our Asimov goal into a B-movie story.




KMsAngel -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/23/2008 1:26:25 AM)

Read any of the Culture novels by Iain Banks. Terraforming, other life forms, moral dilemna's, practical jokers who bury "save the whales" placards in the bronze age strata.....




LadyHibiscus -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/23/2008 10:27:29 AM)

Hey, I have the latest Culture novel in my pile o'books!

When I was young, I was mad for science and space exploration.  Now....I see it as a colossal waste of money.  Is there oil on Mars?  No?  A new food source?  No?  KLINGON BLOOD WINE?  You can see where this is going...




celticlord2112 -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/23/2008 11:06:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
When I was young, I was mad for science and space exploration.  Now....I see it as a colossal waste of money.  Is there oil on Mars?  No?  A new food source?  No?  KLINGON BLOOD WINE?  You can see where this is going...

I take it you don't like Klingon Blood Wine?




LadyHibiscus -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/23/2008 11:27:47 AM)

No, I mean if there is NONE TO BE HAD there, why bother?  Romulan ale, I can take or leave....




Griswold -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/23/2008 6:21:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold


NASA sent up a little space / Mars probe the other day (well, actually, probably a year or two ago...or however long it takes from here to there)....and they found what appeared to be ice.


Gris, NASA knew about the polar ice years ago, this is the first time they got around to actually checking it out.  In fact the entire surface of mars indicates that at one time there was flowing water on the planet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold
And, in the photo taken some hours later...it disappeared.  Something that say, salt, wouldn't have done (unless there was possibly a Martian marguerita walking around just outside the camera lens that no one knew about).

Anyway...that clearly suggests water, which conversely suggests life as we've come to know it.


It suggests the possibility of life as we know it.  In all the probes sent to mars, none have detected a trace of life.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold
So, I was watching an old science show (Cosmos w/Carl Sagan..."Billions and Billions") on TV a while ago while doing some laundry, and a thought occurred to me;  Clearly there are plants, algae, and other growing things that do well in the Arctic.

And as clearly, we can send robots up there to dig holes and send back scoops of dirt.

We can send cars to the moon that carry guys around so they can take a tee shot towards the next crater...and...by extension, we should be able to send a robot to Mars that could germinate a few hundred algae or some such and see if we could start a terra form or some sort.

The water's there.

A lot of folks think that's how life started on Earth.  I'm not so sure I'm one of them, but it's fairly plausible actually.

So...if we did that, would the agency (in this case, NASA) need to get permission from some world consensus before we brought a "life" or living thing to another planet?

Is this something worth doing?

Kinda seems like an amazing concept to me.



Well Gris, it is not that amazing as it sounds.  First we send up algae that can live in an oxygen poor atmosphere, actually any plant that can live in that kind of atmosphere, lichens, moss, algae, dont matter really.  Just as long as it uses photosynthesis.

Once we get the oxygen levels up to say, the equivalent of standing on top of Mt Everest, we send up more complex plants, like desert tolerent grasses.

Of course, in theory we could speed things along if Europa is actually covered with water ice by sending out ships to that moon, mine the ice, ship it back to mars and melt it.

Now once there is a breathable atmosphere, we got to make it so that it will not allow any harmful radiation through, so we have to create an ozone layer.  And we have to warm it up a bit... so we have to create a greenhouse effect.

Once all that is done, we figure out just who we are going to send up there as colonists, and ship off about a third of earth's population.  By that time we should have space craft that can mine the asteroid belt, so we send another third to the belt as miners so they can try to get rich.....

That brings earth's population down to a more managable level....

So then Greedy can take over the planet........



Love it :)

(That was cool [:D])




sappatoti -> RE: For those of you into Space Exploration and such... (6/23/2008 8:08:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold
So...if we did that, would the agency (in this case, NASA) need to get permission from some world consensus before we brought a "life" or living thing to another planet?


Most likely, any such terraforming plans would have to pass through the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs. Part of the discussions for the terraforming operation might determine whether it has any military or weapons testing uses or not. The military aspects of it might come under the terms of the Outer Space Treaty signed in 1967.




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