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Slave Training - 6/24/2008 4:18:10 PM   
HieroV


Posts: 39
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Do you believe in slave training?

Part of me thinks it an oxymoron. Every relationship is different – not sure a “school for slaves” is really useful.

I ask because there is a local BDSM support group – and they are offering a “slave training program” that would run six months. They’re a very nice group – with a very respectful attitude to submissive males and I’ve gotten a very good vibe from the munches they’ve set up that I’ve attended.  I guess I am of two minds on the subject.

I’m going to find out more but part of me wonders if it is worthwhile….

Hiero V

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Slave Training - 6/24/2008 4:45:15 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Hiero.. I  dont think you can make a slave .. but you can teach them basic protocals. You can give them the opportunity to learn from how others have experienced it in the past You can let them discuss their feelings about the process.. but especially amoung leather people.. training is not uncommon..mostly its about communal expectatilons.  However, each experience is individual to the people involved..ie master and slave

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to HieroV)
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RE: Slave Training - 6/24/2008 5:31:48 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline 		~FR~
 
IMO, it depends on what the training consists of and who the target audience is. 
 
Example:  The program is geared toward newbies with little or no practical experience.  The stated goals are to teach things like basic safety including how and when to set up a safe call, to have live demos of techniques ranging from basic flogging to advanced skills such as fire play, and to include an in-depth exploration of one's interests, desires, and potentially traumatic trigger points. 
 
If you fall into the target audience, it might be worth your time to check it out.  However, if you're experienced, it probably won't do much for you.  If you have no experience, a training program might help you figure out what you like, what bores you to tears, and what you hate even though it sounded cool at first.  Without knowing how much experience you have or how the program is designed, it's hard to give you an informed answer. 
 
With that said, I do see merit in a program such as the one I described.  I'm currently "training" my play partner.  I'm not his forever mistress and we both know it, but he has next to no experience.  When I asked what his limits are or what he likes, he couldn't give me an clear answer because he doesn't know enough to answer.  So, part of our time together is geared toward exploring different things and letting him figure it out.  When he finds a Domme, she can train him to her specs, but at least he'll have a better idea of what he wants from that relationship.  And we both have fun in the process.
 
If you think you'll have fun, go for it.  If not, don't.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl
"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to Sylverdawn)
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RE: Slave Training - 6/24/2008 5:48:01 PM   
HieroV


Posts: 39
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Hi,

Thank you both for your responses. I myself have been in four relationships with dominant woman (two as a slave) - so I am not a novice. (This doesn't mean I am foolish enough to think I am an expert and have nothing left to learn.) I should share that except for a handful of times - I have not been part of the "scene" and been pretty private about this.

I'm going to ask for more information to make sure it is not very basic stuff....if not, I beleive I may have some fun.

Again thank you for your repsonses, they been helpful.

HieroV

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Slave Training - 6/24/2008 10:41:35 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear HieroV, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I do believe in 'slave training,' especially when it is the "Owner" teaching their 'slave' as to what they wish the slave to do, how to do, etc.
 
But, it needs to be said that, not all "Owners" of slaves are good trainers and or teachers.  At times Owners need help with skills as well.  Some interesting programs could be found at Master Taino's Training academy as well as Butchman's Academy; perhaps there are others.  However; these must be 'in general' as each Master/Mistress/Owner must teach their slave how to treat them.  In turn, slaves teach Owners how to treat them as well; it is that 'endless cycle' called "Power Exchange."
 
Now, some folks go to specific training conferences; such as Servant's Retreat and things like that.  I have heard mixed reviews through the years.  I believe it depends on who is the targeted audience and or consumer.  Much of what can be learned exists free--such as looking up information on the International Guild of Professional Butlers; or using military manuals as far as protocol, rules and regulations and or military etiquette for any given era; as well as any region and or nation/country.  Even looking up historical roots to etiquette, such as the glove etiquette for men and women; carries through from Imperial (Royalty); civilian, faith based organizations and or churches; as well as the military.  Example; when inside of the building; the superior is the one who determines the removal of the gloves; if the superior removes their gloves all those who rank under them, e.g. Queen removes her gloves, all the ladies remove their gloves also.
 
To depart with generalized statements -- of "Slave Training;" is; in my opinion; too general and or broad.  If narrowed to a specific topic/area; then perhaps it should be considered.  There are conferences held, such as Master-slave Conference held in July, in Maryland - for the Metropolitan area; these many speakers/presenters/workshops are addressed to a general audience with interactions in most cases.
 
I do train my slaves to my personal tastes; others should do the same; as all Dominants are different and have to express themselves clearly; as to teach their slave how to best be of good service, good companionship and of good partnership.  All I can do though; is to offer what has worked for me, what hasn't; share all I know and perhaps be an observer with helpful hints as to remedy a problem here and there.  Both would need to be observed; as to get a better picture of where the issues might be; as well as both must consent to my observation and comments and or judgments. 
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to HieroV)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Slave Training - 6/24/2008 11:03:53 PM   
Araven


Posts: 149
Joined: 3/16/2006
Status: offline 		Each and every person is different with their needs, desires and wants. I agree with the above.. it might be good to get trained in the basics of things, but as far as more intimate and more detailed things.. each person will have different preferences. Its best to explore them with that person, and become the very best you can be, for that person. Be it your top, Mistress, domme, whatever. 

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Slave Training - 6/24/2008 11:18:42 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		When Lady Hugs speaks, smart people listen.


_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Slave Training - 6/24/2008 11:36:59 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

When Lady Hugs speaks, smart people listen.



While Lady Hug's post is flawless, I'd like to add some perspective.

I'm studying to be a puppy trainer (real canines, not people). Some dog owners want their creature to be very disciplined. They want the commands to work every time, and do little basic training (other than upkeep of abilities). Effectively, they want the new dog to come with a verbal remote control. I equate this to a dominant who requires a submissive to go into a professional training academy before joining the house. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Other people want to be the trainer and owner. Usually this ends with more relationship specific quirks. The dog may misbehave more often because of guided amateur training. There's nothing wrong with this schema either. Personally, I like when my pup, canine or otherwise, growls at me because she wants to be roughed with.

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Slave Training - 6/24/2008 11:40:05 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear sunshinemiss, Ladies and Gentlemen;

Oh, believe me -- Smart Masters/Mistresses and Trainers listen to slaves, servants and or submissives.  It really is a matter of training each other how to treat each other.  Even if there are no words, the language of expression and body speaks clearly.

Never ending process of learning as well as willingness to listen, to share and give to others.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Slave Training - 6/24/2008 11:47:51 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear HeavansKeeper, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
While I do have experiences as a canine/K-9 trainer as well as a equine trainer; I am a sort that wouldn't permit a canine to growl, or a male human pup/dawg to growl at me.  Bad habit [Smiles] -- growling at a bad person though is permitted. [Grins]
 
Although horses do not growl; horses that are protective will bare their teeth and lay their ears flat and lower their head and neck.  They can be quick to turn and kick and bite if they so choose. 
 
The humans though in the ranks have been known to growl--must have been the Reville [Chuckles] and Assembly.  [Thank goodness I wasn't the bugler]  This too can be remedied by having the growler doing push ups with their face over a mud puddle. [Smiles]
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Slave Training - 6/25/2008 1:06:16 AM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Dear HeavansKeeper, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
While I do have experiences as a canine/K-9 trainer as well as a equine trainer; I am a sort that wouldn't permit a canine to growl, or a male human pup/dawg to growl at me.  Bad habit [Smiles] -- growling at a bad person though is permitted. [Grins]
 
Although horses do not growl; horses that are protective will bare their teeth and lay their ears flat and lower their head and neck.  They can be quick to turn and kick and bite if they so choose. 
 
The humans though in the ranks have been known to growl--must have been the Reville [Chuckles] and Assembly.  [Thank goodness I wasn't the bugler]  This too can be remedied by having the growler doing push ups with their face over a mud puddle. [Smiles]
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 



Lady Hugs,

Reading your response made me realize how minimalist my response was. I should add that professional training can be done at any age of the dog or submissive's life, and is not mutually exclusive with fun and controlled "wild" behavior.

I have very little experience with horses, having only ever ridden twice, but it doesn't surprise me to see how protective or dangerous they can be. My advice to anyone with lower animals is to tame them comprehensively.

This thread was chiefly concerned with human training by a third party. I have no experience with third party trainers (that is to say anyone involved with me and Pet has been part of play).

My theory is this: Some people are swingers, some are not. hose who cannot handle the complex cocktail of emotions of swinging should refrain. Is third party training like this? It seems there are some similarities, in that some people like the idea and others find it to be wrong for them.

(of course, I maintain two different fields. That is to say someone can be pro-swinging and con-professional training, or any other combination).

Lady Hugs, you said you are for third party training*. In regards to my relationship now, I'm against it.

My reasons are as follows.
1) I don't trust someone else to treat My Pet exactly how I want her treated.
2) I don't want anyone else's principles, rules, or rituals formed in My Pet.
3) I don't like the idea of a gold standard for BDSM (although, as I understand them, training programs do not suggest there is)
4) I like the bonding experience of learning each other through teaching. (I don't want that taken away while she learns basics elsewhere)

The reason I compared training to swinging is that some of the objections are the same. (except 3, that's not a swinging-related objection)

* = overall, assuming its done right, and obviously not for everyone.

Just a 4:00 a.m. thought.

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Slave Training - 6/25/2008 6:00:06 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		You can certainly help someone explore the different aspects of SM and bondage and some of the various ideas that different people have about how submissives and slaves should act.

That's all you can do, that's all I do by the way when I've trained, you offer variety, safety, and feedback as they try things out.

What good does this do?

It helps them learn about themselves and the scene. The more they know the better they'll be at choosing a good partner.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to HieroV)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Slave Training - 6/25/2008 7:35:11 AM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		I think learning, no matter what it is, is a great thing.  I have a good deal of experience but no matter what, I can learn something new from every workshop or training I attend.  I am guessing the word 'training' will trip people up.  I do think, however, that things like that are beneficial and with anything like that, you take what applies to you and use it and discard the rest.

I have a good friend who does something similar, an intensive weekend, but she doesn't call it training -- its really not, its about learning, discussing and spending time with like minded folks.

I went to a meeting last night, mostly because the presenter is a good friend and I enjoy anything she does.  I learned a lot; it helped me to think about a few things.  I have seen her do this presentation before, but I still got something from it.



_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

(in reply to HieroV)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Slave Training - 6/25/2008 8:07:26 AM   
MystiqueFL


Posts: 5
Joined: 1/14/2008
Status: offline 		I actually wrote about this topic on my blog.... Mystique's Blog
 
Training Someone I Will Never Own
 
Some people have very negative opinions about those of us who train people we will never own. I find those judgments rather interesting because, it appears many jump to the conclusions, either the person is being trained for ‘someone else’ or that the trainer is taking advantage of the person being trained.

I have ‘trained’ people who I had no intentions of ever owning in a long-term relationship. This blog is to provide some insight into the reasons and basis for this type of training, of relationship structure. To clarify, here is a simple ‘analogy’. There are many employment positions requiring the person seeking a specific position within a company to ‘intern’ for a set amount of time as a part of their overall educational process. The time they spend as an intern assists them with growing as a person within their chosen field by gaining some practical exposure and experience. What being an intern does not do is prepare them for every situation that might arise nor does it prepare them for every employer they might decide to work under. When I train someone whom I will never own, they are essentially an intern who has come to me and requested assistance with gaining some or more practical exposure and experience. They do this in order to broaden the scope of the overall educational process into their chosen path of voluntary servitude.

Each person fully understands what they learn during their time under me will not be reflective of every person they may chose to be under in the future nor will it prepare them for every possible situation that may arise. There are obvious ‘differences’ between an actual intern seeking a specific employment position and a person seeking a position of voluntary servitude. However, the concepts of gaining practical exposure and experience to assist someone in their overall educational process, are the same.

My most recent training period was spent with a married couple who both wanted to gain practical exposure and experience with voluntary servitude. Both had been attending two or three munches and play parties a month for less than a year. Neither had ever been to an event nor had either of them ever had any practical experience with voluntary servitude beyond serving in any way they could at munches and play parties. The couple wanted some practical exposure and experience with actually being under the authority of a specific person all the time. I enjoy training so I decided to take them on temporarily for fun and education, nothing more. They both learned and grew a lot during our time together and so did I because each new person that I work with provides me with new challenges. Now they are both with other people, she is under a training contract with a male trainer and he is collared to another woman. They do everything with each other’s knowledge and blessing, and both are still dear friends of mine to this day.

Training is not for everyone and I am sure there are some people out there who do use it to their advantage in a negative way. However, I believe this to be the exception rather than the rule. I hope those of you who have never had experience with this type of training structure will now be open to the reality that just because it isn’t for everyone, does not mean it will not work wonderfully for some.

©2008 All Rights Reserved

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Slave Training - 6/25/2008 1:17:00 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear HeavansKeeper, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In regard to training third party wise; I am offended to be lumped into the category of 'swingers' or someone who is 'sexually loose.'
 
In third party training, I watch the interaction between the couple and give advise to the Dominant and submissive; which is with their consent.  The Dominant sets the goals for the relationship, my desire is to help tweak their communications and expectations as to realize those goals.  It has nothing to do with 'swinging' or 'sex.'
 
Abuse does occur for certain.  There are those who use BDSM to take advantage of others, especially financially and sexually.  However, there are some of us to whom take a more professional approach as a 'relationship' and or 'skills' coach.  Mentoring, teaching, training, coaching and or cheerleader -- if there is a well tempered and reserved mentor to whom does not bully into the relationship; as in a 'take over;' but - working along side as a guide and steps out when the goal is accomplished; is something I enjoy doing.  Nobody is left alone in this process it is a joint effort on all three of our parts.
 
At times I have worked with professional canine handlers/trainers.  They are extremely popular and well respected in their fields.  But, at times there is a rough spot to which they need someone to mentor/teach/guide them as to give them skills and knowledge to handle such situations presently and or in the future.  Working with the handler, giving quiet guides to different commands and such; the issues are resolved and the total sum is pure delightful.  I need not train the entire canine from A through Z; just a stretch from H to P perhaps; as to get the end results.  What they learn from me, they have now for their own basket of knowledge.
These handlers were never 'threatened' by asking me for help; so too--with those in BDSM; they are not threatened by me. 
 
Trust is earned.  I don't expect to be trusted in total; my trust is earned by everybody I come in contact with and it is not misplaced, when I am entrusted with areas where I mentor/teach/present and or give demonstrations. 
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 

 

 

 
 

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Slave Training - 6/25/2008 5:39:00 PM   
HieroV


Posts: 39
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Wow...thought I would only get a response or two. Thank you all for your thoughts.

Hiero V


(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Slave Training - 6/25/2008 9:40:44 PM   
joyinslavery


Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		No,  I don't. 

Born not bred. 

Wait...bred not born? 

Pass. 



_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to HieroV)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Slave Training - 6/26/2008 5:48:05 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I have only trained someone else's partner twice -- this is out of about 30 people I've trained thus far.

Both times, I made it clear that what I was offering was an introduction to Ds and SM, I would not, I repeat not, take over the job the relationship's dom should have had to do her own specific training.

Each time that dom got back a sub who knew his limits better, knew how to speak up better, and knew what he wanted better. I don't think at least one of those women was very happy to get her slave back cause he wasn't the doormat she handed to me.

I warned her...

However I do know that after her initial displeasure his new skills in self-awareness and communication helped them build an even stronger and happier relationship.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Slave Training - 6/26/2008 2:56:39 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Dear HeavansKeeper, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In regard to training third party wise; I am offended to be lumped into the category of 'swingers' or someone who is 'sexually loose.'
 
In third party training, I watch the interaction between the couple and give advise to the Dominant and submissive; which is with their consent.  The Dominant sets the goals for the relationship, my desire is to help tweak their communications and expectations as to realize those goals.  It has nothing to do with 'swinging' or 'sex.'
 
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 

 

 

 
 


Perhaps you misunderstood my analogy. I was saying that both swinging and third party training, as two completely separate entities, share one bond: They should only be done by those who know what they're getting into and feel comfortable with it.

As you pointed out, it's also important to separate mentoring and coaching from an "A-Z" third party. The only training I am against is when the actual owner is not a part of the method. Whether being the hired trainer for a dog, cat, fish, human, horse, or any other member of the animal kingdom, I feel it is my responsibility to ensure the end-user (owner) has the skills necessary.

In regards to my relationship I'm never opposed to help, tips, and suggestions that could spare me from learning the hard way. Experience is the virtue that affords you to save a novice some measure of suffering.

You, Lady Hugs, clearly have a stellar grasp on the multifaceted act of training. I admire your extensive experience, and hope one day to have such a thorough understanding of big picture.

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Slave Training - 6/26/2008 8:15:47 PM   
MsLemon


Posts: 47
Joined: 1/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

When Lady Hugs speaks, smart people listen.



I agree 100% to the above statement.  As would several other people in the DC scene I'm certain.

Well stated Lady Hugs and I thank you for your taking the time to put it so eloquently.

Regards,
Ms Lemon

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 20
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