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The Reticent Sub - 6/26/2008 8:56:10 PM   
Morsigil


Posts: 67
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		I was hoping to hear some stories from dommes or switches who had a sub who was new, perhaps a little neurotic, who had some trouble giving up control, and how they worked (or couldn't work) around this challenge.

*Cough* You know... for a friend. He's a sub at heart, with very little experience.
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RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/26/2008 9:03:51 PM   
SurrenderForMe


Posts: 229
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Dealing with men, I go through the libido.  Get a guy hot and he will do almost anything.  Works for newcomers, mainstreamers and just about any male I ever met.

Since "your friend" is the object of seduction, and would be aware of the advice, I'd suggest connecting with someone who really turns you on and pushing ahead.  Take the shot.  You can live your whole life daydreaming and nothing ever happens.  My choice is to pursue (regardless of orientation it is scary so don't do the "Oh well, you're a domme" thing.)  Your choice is for you to make.

Experienced people with issues, it's a crap shoot.  Sometimes it works to build trust.  If that is not able to be established, it doesn't usually go far.

(in reply to Morsigil)
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RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/26/2008 9:08:02 PM   
Morsigil


Posts: 67
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SurrenderForMe

Dealing with men, I go through the libido.  Get a guy hot and he will do almost anything.  Works for newcomers, mainstreamers and just about any male I ever met.

Since "your friend" is the object of seduction, and would be aware of the advice, I'd suggest connecting with someone who really turns you on and pushing ahead.  Take the shot.  You can live your whole life daydreaming and nothing ever happens.  My choice is to pursue (regardless of orientation it is scary so don't do the "Oh well, you're a domme" thing.)  Your choice is for you to make.

Experienced people with issues, it's a crap shoot.  Sometimes it works to build trust.  If that is not able to be established, it doesn't usually go far.



I guess that's how I was thinking I'd learn: find someone I'm genuinely attracted to, and then let the questions answer themself as we learn about each other's needs and desires.

(in reply to SurrenderForMe)
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RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/26/2008 9:16:16 PM   
Shawn1066


Posts: 987
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline 		When I met my Owner, she knew I had zero experience and that I needed to be introduced to things slowly.  So, that's exactly what she did.  She didn't expect me to go from a Virgin to a sex slave over night.  She didn't expect me to go from a relatively lazy college student to her personal housewife either.  I was given more responsibility and introduced to more things over a relatively long amount of time.  As a masochist, I started with a simple Whartenburg Wheel and moved gradually to more and more extreme things. 

It's a journey, not a race.

You can't expect somebody to give up all their control over night, heck, it's a lot to expect them to give up half of it for a while...  Well, you can expect it, but more often than not it might be a tad unrealistic, in my opinion.

DV's Fox

(in reply to Morsigil)
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RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/26/2008 9:17:34 PM   
SunNMoon


Posts: 1058
Joined: 3/18/2007
Status: offline 		I always start small. And I mean small, like have him draw a picture on himself. Or have to call me on a certian day. It's a little thing that's not a lot then I keep adding things. I just want to add I do this even if someone wasn't new it helps me get a feel for him, and him for me.

I think the trick is just to keep things simple before adding everything at once.

_____________________________

"We agreed to S&M only, sex and mockery." - Gray’s Anatomy.

(in reply to Morsigil)
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RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/26/2008 9:17:49 PM   
MySweetSubmssive


Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline 		Not so much a story as much as an outline ... I look at *why* a person is resisting.   What is the source?  Is there something about the specific activity?  Are there buttons this is pushing for him?  What is his experience of my request?  I take away the barriers to him acquiesing.  If the task or the request is too big, I break it down into smaller pieces to guide him toward it. 

I am also consistent in letting him know he is going to do that thing.  There is something about being persistent and intransigent that helps.  It lets him know that I have expectations, but that I am also reliable.  I think when embarassment on the submissive's side is a part of his reluctance (feeling strange about submitting in general), creating structure and being consistent go a long way.  Also there's trust ... remember the group exercise where a person would fall back into other people's arms?  It's similar.  If I can coax someone to give it up for me once, it makes it easier for him to do it again.  (and there's that same sense of achievement and liberation as in the exercise!)

Hoping this makes sense in after-midnight sleepiness.

Mss

_____________________________

"Oh, James, you're such a cunning linguist."

--Miss Moneypenny

(in reply to Morsigil)
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RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/26/2008 9:28:21 PM   
Morsigil


Posts: 67
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		You made plenty of sense, Mss.

Thanks for the replies. Even these few have made me feel much better about potential service.

(in reply to MySweetSubmssive)
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RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/26/2008 9:30:18 PM   
pagankinktress


Posts: 80
Joined: 8/12/2007
Status: offline 		My approach is similar to SunNMoon--I am a big fan of doing things in stages...progressively building on themes that my submissive will explore.  Not only does this prevent him from becoming overwhelmed or overstimulated, but it's very erotic to watch his anticipation grow.  Depending on the activity I am leading him into, this build-up phase can consist of various exercises, cognitive (i.e. presenting questions for him to reflect on, excerpts from literature or readings that relate to the theme), physical and/or ritual preparations to assist in centering his mind and ready his body for whatever the activity will be.   I also think "checking in" regularly is important, especially after we've played and even more so when a new theme has been introduced.  His feedback is very valuable; it helps me to understand what worked and what didn't for him.  We tend to have some interesting D/s philosophical discussions following play time...it's almost becoming a fetish in and of itself! 

Hope this has given you some insight.  And like MySweet said, trust means so much.  If you are playing with someone who you trust and know respects you, amazing outcomes will result. 

Good luck to you.   :)




_____________________________

~ Ivy

My Blog: http://www.bohemianrhapsodize.com/
http://twitter.com/pagankinktress

(in reply to MySweetSubmssive)
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RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/26/2008 9:42:58 PM   
MySweetSubmssive


Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline 		I like verbal cueing, too. 

I love having someone lick and arouse me through my feet.  I was spending time with a submissive who had no particular interest in foot worship -- he didn't hate it, but it didn't really cause any response in him.  He was skeptical of how he would respond when asked.  In the days leading up to a weekend together, and during the weekend I said, "You're going to be licking my feet."  In the course of play he became more and more invested in it.  By the time he licked my feet, he was whimpering from the submissive headspace it sent him into.  It was quite the learning experience for both of us.  After that, foot licking became a powerful submissive trigger for him.  He asked to do it.

Hmmm .... guess that was more of a story.

A retiecent submissive (as opposed to a bratty or SAMy one) can be quite the turn-on.  There's nothing quite so enticing as a new submissive man struggling with himself and his desires and confusion.  Being able to get inside his head and coax him  or break him down is hot as hell.  (blinking)  In case you were wondering.

Still sleepy,
Mss

< Message edited by MySweetSubmssive -- 6/26/2008 9:47:58 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, James, you're such a cunning linguist."

--Miss Moneypenny

(in reply to pagankinktress)
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RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/26/2008 10:37:55 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		I don't expect a sub to hand over all control at once. In fact I'd be worried as hell if he was prepared to! Like the other good ladies here, I start with some basic rules and then add and extend. However, I don't actually want one who only operates submissively through sex. I have met those whose sub button flicks to OFF as soon as they cum. While they can be fun to play with, not much use for domestic service. I want one who is genuinely willing to serve, even though how much he serves may start small and gradually increase.

And OP ... forget the "friend" thing ... just gets confusing. We're mostly pretty open here about ourselves!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to MySweetSubmssive)
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RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/27/2008 5:59:28 AM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline 		Pretty much what they (especially MSS) said. I'm an analyzer and a talker, so I did a LOT of that, as well as simple conditioning-type activities. There is a point at which one gets the urge to bang one's head against a wall; I would suggest trying to avoid driving a dominant to that point. But, then, I was working with someone who started out completely vanilla, so it was bound to be particularly difficult. :P

(in reply to MaamJay)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/27/2008 6:06:05 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		My sub went through the "hard time giving up control phase", it was expected as he was brand new to subbing and I believe all subs go through this on some level. He would get angry easy, start agruments etc. We worked though it and it did take a good year for things to work out.

I would talk to him a lot, make him tell me what he was thinking and feeling. That was another new experience for him in itself. I had him write down this thoughts and feelings, I would read them and we would discuss them. Eventually that bump in the road was in the past.

The biggest factor is you have to be with someone who inspires you to give up control. I inspired him enough that he wanted to do that. We've been together four years now.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to Morsigil)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/28/2008 12:26:55 PM   
Morsigil


Posts: 67
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		I guess now all I need to do is find that special, local someone.

It's funny, because I never thought I would be this kind of guy, but what I struggle with the most is how others will view me when they know I submit to women. It's like taking any and all armor off my masculinity, leaving it completely defenseless to any judgement. As if once I take that step I'm no longer a man. =/

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/28/2008 3:08:41 PM   
MySweetSubmssive


Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline 		Do you fear that this is how you will see yourself, that it's not simply how others will see you?  This struggle that you have is personal for you, but it's also one that many submissive men experience.  Even in a post-feminist age, it's unusual for a man to deliberately make himself vulnerable.  You're going against a lot of cultural messages.  In the past week or so there was a thread posted by a submissive man who was asking if all women wanted a "strong" submissive.  Undergroundsea posted about very lately telling friends and family about being submissive, and his experience of feeling like he was going out on a shaky limb -- and I believe he has years of experience. 

So ... go easy on yourself.  And share the vulnerable part of yourself with care.  (smiling)

Mss

_____________________________

"Oh, James, you're such a cunning linguist."

--Miss Moneypenny

(in reply to Morsigil)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/28/2008 6:55:41 PM   
Morsigil


Posts: 67
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		Thinking of it that way it is safe for me to say that it is a personal struggle. I have few qualms about revealing most of my activities, to date, to friends, family, and co-workers, but more often I don't share it simply because it's not relevant. There really isn't any reason to share it with my co-workers, but some do know because A) one received an e-mail from me when I was heading up a local group and B) most are my age and open-minded so they get a kick out of it.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice. =) It's been very thought provoking.

(in reply to MySweetSubmssive)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The Reticent Sub - 6/29/2008 8:01:02 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		You are a man, just one who isn't hiding behind a shield of false security. Be wise, be yourself, don't wear a mask for anyone, be happy with yourself. You will find that one.

Good luck,
~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to Morsigil)
Profile   Post #: 16
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