The Submissive and The Bitch (Full Version)

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candystripper -> The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 12:35:23 AM)

Anyone who saw the movie "Dolores Clayborn' probably remembers the line:
 
'Sometimes being a bitch is all a woman has to hang on to.'
 
I've always loved that line and think it's true.  There are sitations in life where unless you can marshall your 'inner bitch' you're in a world of hurt.
 
I see many Ops and posts on the boards decrying the 'bitchiness' of some submissives, but I feel even after I'm collared, I will still need my 'inner bitch'.
 
* I might need it to deal with a persistent problem without a lot of agro.
 
* I might need it to communicate to my Dom that He is dangerously close to the limit of my patience/endurance/acceptance.
 
* I might need it on behalf of someone I love who encounters difficulties and needs my help.
 
* I might need it to safely handle a volitale situation; some people respond to a soft voice by acting out even more, but will retreat if 'confronted' by a strong woman.
 
What do you think?
 
candystripper



Aswad -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 2:15:39 AM)

I think confusing "bitch" with "strong woman" may be a poor option in a confrontation. The former of the two is more likely to provoke escalation, at which point their lack of interchangeability may become all too apparent. I've known both, and I have a great deal of respect for the latter. As to the former, it would probably be inappropriate to supply anecdotes about what sort of response have characterized my interactions with those, so suffice to say the outcome has rarely been the one sought.

The examples you cite do not support the notion of strength being the foundation here, IMO.

No offense intended, just my analysis, based on my observations.

Health,
al-Aswad.



Aileen1968 -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 2:19:08 AM)

I would expect to be dumped faster than fast if I acted like a bitch to my dom.



MasterHermes -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 3:46:20 AM)

candy,

Good luck to you

Hermes



Focus50 -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 3:56:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

I would expect to be dumped faster than fast if I acted like a bitch to my dom.

And some Doms would deny themselves the opportunity to put you in your place - any fool can point to the door....
 
Focus.



sweetnurseBBW -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 5:09:40 AM)

I don't think being strong willed and standing up for yourself is the same as being a bitch. I am expected to be strong willed but if I acted like a bitch I can expect to be shown the door.



Leatherist -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 6:33:03 AM)

There is a distinct difference in acting with strength-and just behaving like a garden variety asshole. If you cannot discern the difference-my sympathy for your partner.

Or perhaps-my contempt-it's a bit of a toss up.[;)]



DesFIP -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 6:47:13 AM)

There's a difference between standing your ground and attacking others needlessly.
I can't think of a situation where me being bitchy would have been preferable to being clear about what I will and won't do.




Mercnbeth -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 6:54:20 AM)

quote:

What do you think?

 
Master has never met this slave's inner bitch.  it isn't something she "needs" to haul out and dust off in order to state an opinion, engage in a debate or use in place of the feminine strength she already has.



gypsygrl -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 7:11:22 AM)

The only times I need to rely on my inner bitch is when someone is using emotional appeals to get me to do something that I very clearly indicated I didn't want to do and they won't take a simple no for an answer.  She has no place in a heathy, comitted d/s relationship but she's very good at resisting emotional manipulation in a general way.



CarrieO -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 7:15:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

I would expect to be dumped faster than fast if I acted like a bitch to my dom.

And some Doms would deny themselves the opportunity to put you in your place - any fool can point to the door....
 
Focus.


So true. It takes a strong man to handle a strong woman.
I'm a very strong/strong-willed woman and I always have more respect for a man that can master me without showing me to the door at the first sign of disagreement.
Being a bitch and being strong are two very different things.

*candystripper......the things you listed are simply what a strong woman would do.

peace.....carrie



xxblushesxx -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 7:18:42 AM)

I agree Carrie. I think it was just a poor choice of words. But, the sentiment behind it makes sense to me.



colouredin -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 7:20:36 AM)

See I think that as many have said that there is a differance between bitch and stong woman, I think I can be both, I like my strength and hate my bitchiness and within D/s you cant really be a bitch and get away with it because bitchiness is unprovoked female agressive nastiness (my idea of it anyways)



CarrieO -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 8:11:58 AM)

colouredin.....agreed.  Interesting  how many different ways words can be used.

I have my inner bitch just like every other woman...and I try to keep her at bay as often as possible because she ain't pretty! 

As to the line from "Dolores Clayborn"......it's true, sometimes all a woman has is the bitch. However...I try to channel that accordingly into strength.
Example....in my work, my boss has a way of being very humiliating (not my thing at all!) and because he has very little power within his own life, he takes that out on me. Very messed up dynamic, I know, but in order to keep my job (which is a very good one and keeps me in the manner I've become accustomed to) I will try to find strength in my bitchiness to deal with him in a mature manner that allows me to keep my job, my pride and my sanity all without making him feel less than he already is.
Not sure if that makes sense as I'm only going on 3 hours of sleep!



RealSub58 -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 8:53:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

I don't think being strong willed and standing up for yourself is the same as being a bitch. I am expected to be strong willed but if I acted like a bitch I can expect to be shown the door.

~~ditto~~
 
Assertive, strong and respectful is not bitchiness.
 
 



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 9:03:37 AM)

I think embracing "bitchiness" as a positive characteristic is a sign that we have nothing else to turn to.  It's a reaction to being helpless and powerless.

I'd much prefer to embrace being a princess or queen and show power that way.



fluffyswitch -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 9:08:44 AM)

the bitch has her place. i agree though that i think there is misunderstanding between bitch and strong. i've been called a bitch in a lot of situations where others have just called me strong. i don't think that being a submissive should force me to give it up-- if anything i need it more so i don't turn into a doormat. and if i'm going to be shown the door for it, it better be open already because i'm going to be running for it. there is something to be said for quiet submissives- i'm just not one of them.



RCdc -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 9:12:21 AM)

I don't believe being a bitch is constructive and if you cannot deal with issues in a mature and non bitchy manner then the issues aren't being dealt with, just covered over.
Bitchiness is destructive, humiliating and shows a lack of respect for oneself and others.
 
the.dark.



SteelofUtah -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 10:19:53 AM)

See this Line is being taken out of context.

Dolores is not portraying that Bitch in a Positive. If you remember she has Killed her husband who was an abusive dick. She has lost everything even her own daughter she has no real history and no real future she spent her entire life working for the woman who everyone thought she hated and who also treated her like shit, however the back story is a little masochistic if you ask me/

The Point being when she says that "Sometimes being a Bitch is all a woman has to hang on to" what she is saying is without being a bitch she would literally have NOTHING no sense of self and not drive to continue on.

This in my opinion rarely applies to the submissive, because the nature of a submissive is to fully embrase themselves and empower themselves through thier submission or to complately fall apart and become what they think is unworthy of any fulfilling relationship beyond one of control. Now OBVIOUSLY not all women fall into this very ridgid structure but the point remains that the way "Bitch" is being referenced in the Movie is not the Nature of what I think candystripper is expressing.

The Idea that a sub speaking up to thier Master makes them a Bitch is a whole different story. I think it comes down to intent. In Example, andi at times gets frustrated and holds onto it and lets it build up and by the time she is finally ready to do something about it her demeanor is in a Negative form and she Bitches, when she bitches I usually try to understand the jist of her complaint and then shut her down because I am not going to give her a platform to continue with inappropriate conduct and usually I send her to the room where she gets to calm down and come back to me when she can discuss herself rationally. When something bothers her and she says right away, " you know that didn't feel right" or " I don't like the way that made me feel" then I am more apt to listen to the issue and find a rational solution.

andi also knows that I don't care for her getting beligerent in public not because I feel a submissive should be meek and mild but because it isn't her place to make the scene if anyone is going to make the scene it is Me, not her and I usually do. You see I feel responsible for her actions and her behavior in public or in certain situations I believe reflects upon me and I don't like people speaking for me so if someone is going to thought of as a Bitch or an Asshole I Perfer it to be Me not her.

As for dealing with Problems and Issues I am a believer that all situations can be handled with Logic and or Jail time. If something gets agressive or goes agro I always want to be the reciepient of that because I carry a cell phone with an emergency key and a Police Locator and when things get Agro I want them to take a swing at me because I can take it I really don't want to have to defend my girl especially if she was at fault because I detest defending the agressors side. Point being, I know andi can take care of herself but when she gave herself to me as her Owner it no longer became her choice to make it became mine and she knows what I expect of her and I have had to remind her of it once or twice at concerts when there were nearly fist fights over being up front.

So in Short I perfer a Strong submissive to a Submissive Bitch Anyday.

Steel



GilBlas -> RE: The Submissive and The Bitch (6/27/2008 10:29:11 AM)

Being a bitch as a mean of last resort seems problematic. Helplessness is a poison -- someone who feels hostage of a situation needs to step outside and get his freedom back. Self esteem is a very fragile animal and must be protected. 

Or is that being a bitch as a traditional female test ? To verify if the man will cope with that, is smart enough to understand the situation, strong enough to keep control, and reply on his terms, at his chosen time, his way ? Nothing wrong with that... 



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