RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (Full Version)

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Aswad -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/9/2008 10:58:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Amaros All technically true, but you are really only replacing one "law" with another, and you are failing to consider that group level selection vehichles are involved - law itself is a product of the group vehicle. Your post is correct, but misses the point. My issue is that while they may make it their business- i.e. interfere- it is not something to be couched in notions of entitlement, what is "right" and what is "proper." It is raw power, exercised as a means of control. Not a thing I'm opposed to in itself, except in the side-effect that the state readily becomes an organism that we are part of (shift in the nature of the symbiosis), but something I would say only holds weight as an argument about majority rule (i.e. overpowering force), not as a morally universal principle or anything of that sort. Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/9/2008 11:03:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Well, despite my vast intellectual inferiority, let's just assume I'm somewhere near your highly evolved intelligence. Can we do that, I mean just for shits and giggles? Since I offered another plausible issue to ascribe the problem to, and you opted to pick this one instead, it would have to be for giggles. quote: My point is the desire to do that level of harm to oneself or another is not what you try to portray euphemistically as a cultural difference. Not a cultural difference. An artifact of culture. It's been normal, rational behavior in more than one culture. quote: Rational people do not choose to harm themselves or others to the point of removing body parts, much less making a casserole with them. Meiwes is a counterexample- his rationality is not in question, his desires and their validity are. Under consent, that is. Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/9/2008 11:04:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Amaros People often turn to magical thinking during times of social stress and upheaval, racism is a form of magical thinking for example, a "goat" - i.e., if you can manage to eradicate the "source" of whatever evil you imagine yourself to be suffering from (usually mere bad managment, political-economic miscreance, but also natural disaster, etc., but usually blamed on gays, Jews, witches, liberals and other assorted heretics, etc.), you can appease the gods and restore the balance. Actually, scapegoating may be a good application of regular BDSM, but I digress. [:D] Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/9/2008 11:06:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirDominic I do not know I can answer that question. One of the best answers so far in this thread. Health, al-Aswad.

masterforRT -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/10/2008 12:21:44 AM)
I think that BDSM (or anything) becomes unhealhy and/or destructive if (when) you become obsessed with it. I know people that are obsessed with things online and they spend every waking moment online-never going outside, never bathing-just sitting online. Some are this way with online communities like Second Life and Moove. Problem is that your FIRST life needs attention too! I can easily see people doing the same with BDSM.

pettingdragons -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/10/2008 6:01:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: masterforRT I think that BDSM (or anything) becomes unhealhy and/or destructive if (when) you become obsessed with it. Problem is that your FIRST life needs attention too! I can easily see people doing the same with BDSM. Master is my life....he is first....then comes the pets...then slave (Master sees to it that his slave cares for herself if she forgets) How is that destructive? We are all happy, healthy, fun loving and stable....

rulemylife -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/10/2008 6:02:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: Rational people do not choose to harm themselves or others I deliberatly did not include the part about taking off body parts because the 'action' really has nothing to do with what I am going to say. You state that 'rational people do not choose to harm themselves or others"... First off; what is YOUR definition of rational. Not a dictionary definition...but YOURS. Secondly, I would like to point out that rational people harm and hurt others every day; sometimes intentionally, sometimes unintentionally. Of course, I am using my own definition of rational...most probably differs from yours; but hey, that's ok. You know, this is just getting to the point of being ridiculous. Are you saying there are no absolutes? Ever? That we can all just make up our own version of right and wrong. So, if I decide to take a baseball bat to my neighbor's head because his dog barks too much I should be given an understanding pat on the back by the police, because after all it was pretty annoying and I should be able to use my definition of what is rational and right.

rulemylife -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/10/2008 6:11:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan This entire thread = [sm=banghead.gif][sm=banghead.gif][sm=banghead.gif][sm=gaah.gif][sm=Groaner.gif] How hard is it to figure out that, if you are cutting off body parts so someone else can eat them (or any other reason besides emergency lifesaving procedures) and think it's a perfectly acceptable life choice, You. Are. Broken. You are not spiritual or deep. You're bugfuck nuts. Do not pass go. Go directly to the psych ward. Better yet, remove yourself from the gene pool before you spawn. Until then, here's your sign. Thank you. [sm=applause.gif]

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/10/2008 9:49:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife You know, this is just getting to the point of being ridiculous. Are you saying there are no absolutes? Ever? That we can all just make up our own version of right and wrong. So, if I decide to take a baseball bat to my neighbor's head because his dog barks too much I should be given an understanding pat on the back by the police, because after all it was pretty annoying and I should be able to use my definition of what is rational and right. For me, there is one absolute -- I require that any activity be consentual, and that full disclosure precedes obtaining consent. By this criteria, your decision to take a baseball bat to your neighbor's head because his dog barks too much would be a criminal act (assuming that you did not get consent from your neighbor to bash his head in over his dog.) Once an act becomes one of consentual participation, where all parties are of legal age to give consent, know what is happening and have consented, it is nobody else's business to decide how they behave with one another, or to ameliorate any danger caused by their activities. Decisions about who is and is not capable of giving consent, for me, are limited to individuals who are of legal age, and who have not been deemed incapable of comprehending adult concepts by a medical doctor (ie, mentally challenged to the point where xhe is mentally a child, even though xhe's physically entered adultuhood), and who is currently not under the influence of any mind-altering drug that could impair understanding of hir participation or which could remove inhibitions (alcohol, prescription/non-prescription drugs). Firestorm

IrishMist -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/10/2008 12:18:05 PM)
quote: So, if I decide to take a baseball bat to my neighbor's head because his dog barks too much I should be given an understanding pat on the back by the police, because after all it was pretty annoying and I should be able to use my definition of what is rational and right. LOL nice try. However, if YOU take a baseball bat to your neighboors head, it becomes assault, which is illegal...an illegal action has nothing to do with defining what is rational or irrational. Try again please.

Drakcon -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/10/2008 12:28:30 PM)
i don't know, taking a baseball bat to my neighbors head sounds good for them having a loud dog, not the dogs fault it's there, the neighbor took it home, why should i beat the dog for the neighbors error in not correcting the issue in the first place? LOL..... so yeah the authority's should be understanding, you went right to the source of the problem and took care of it........ I know........ GROOOWNNNNNN sue me :P

IrishMist -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/10/2008 12:54:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Drakcon i don't know, taking a baseball bat to my neighbors head sounds good for them having a loud dog, not the dogs fault it's there, the neighbor took it home, why should i beat the dog for the neighbors error in not correcting the issue in the first place? LOL..... so yeah the authority's should be understanding, you went right to the source of the problem and took care of it........ I know........ GROOOWNNNNNN sue me :P LMFAO I like your reasoning [8D]

EbonyPhoenix68 -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/10/2008 1:27:25 PM)
I couldn't agree more and to add, those who don't play by the rules of safe, sane and consensual play (or risk aware consensual kink for some) [in other words, anything goes]. And sad to say, there are some "lifestylers" (no one on this thread or messages board, mind you) who have done that.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/10/2008 11:36:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife You know, this is just getting to the point of being ridiculous. Are you saying there are no absolutes? Ever? That we can all just make up our own version of right and wrong. So, if I decide to take a baseball bat to my neighbor's head because his dog barks too much I should be given an understanding pat on the back by the police, because after all it was pretty annoying and I should be able to use my definition of what is rational and right. I don't see how that follows at all. If there are no absolutes, ever, then you shouldn't be given an understanding pat on the back by the police unless they want to do so. You should take whatever the police want to do to you, unless you can somehow prevent them. Just because there are no absolutes doesn't mean you get any more of a free pass than everyone else, and some people have a lot more weight to throw behind their 'free pass' than you do. (For example, if you're rich/powerful enough, then you WILL get an understanding pat on the back by the police after taking a baseball bat to your neighbor's head - unless he's also rich/powerful enough).

Aswad -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/11/2008 3:10:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist LMFAO I like your reasoning [8D] You're not alone in that. [:D] Hell, around these parts, parents are liable (civilly and criminally) for whatever their kids do until age 15. And I think it's fairly obvious that most dogs aren't much more developed than that. [;)] Health, al-Aswad.

rulemylife -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/11/2008 6:03:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife You know, this is just getting to the point of being ridiculous. Are you saying there are no absolutes? Ever? That we can all just make up our own version of right and wrong. So, if I decide to take a baseball bat to my neighbor's head because his dog barks too much I should be given an understanding pat on the back by the police, because after all it was pretty annoying and I should be able to use my definition of what is rational and right. For me, there is one absolute -- I require that any activity be consentual, and that full disclosure precedes obtaining consent. By this criteria, your decision to take a baseball bat to your neighbor's head because his dog barks too much would be a criminal act (assuming that you did not get consent from your neighbor to bash his head in over his dog.) Once an act becomes one of consentual participation, where all parties are of legal age to give consent, know what is happening and have consented, it is nobody else's business to decide how they behave with one another, or to ameliorate any danger caused by their activities. Decisions about who is and is not capable of giving consent, for me, are limited to individuals who are of legal age, and who have not been deemed incapable of comprehending adult concepts by a medical doctor (ie, mentally challenged to the point where xhe is mentally a child, even though xhe's physically entered adultuhood), and who is currently not under the influence of any mind-altering drug that could impair understanding of hir participation or which could remove inhibitions (alcohol, prescription/non-prescription drugs). Firestorm Actually it definitely is someone else's business. The law doesn't recognize the right of consent to inflict bodily harm. Meaning, even if you are only spanking someone, with the full consent of the person being spanked, if someone were to call the police you theoretically could be charged with assault, without any need of the spankee filing a complaint.

IrishMist -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/11/2008 6:52:35 AM)
Rule, fortunately, the law is not always so black and white; a condition that 99% of the people in the world are more than aware of. We can sit here till the end of the world and bicker about semantics but it will not change the fact that there are situations in which a person DOES HAVE THE RIGHT to inflict bodily harm; WITHOUT THE CONSENT of the other person; and I am not just referring to self-defense. Yes, I am taking this to the extreme edge, but even you are not so ignorant as to not realize this. quote: even if you are only spanking someone, with the full consent of the person being spanked, if someone were to call the police you theoretically could be charged with assault, without any need of the spankee filing a complaint. Are you a police officer? A lawyer who specializes in cases such as this? I know for a fact…yes for a fact…that if the police were called because someone were spanking me; that the person arrested would not be charged with assault without my express cooperation; and even then, the chances of attaining a conviction of assault are almost nil.

rulemylife -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/11/2008 8:16:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist Rule, fortunately, the law is not always so black and white; a condition that 99% of the people in the world are more than aware of. We can sit here till the end of the world and bicker about semantics but it will not change the fact that there are situations in which a person DOES HAVE THE RIGHT to inflict bodily harm; WITHOUT THE CONSENT of the other person; and I am not just referring to self-defense. Yes, I am taking this to the extreme edge, but even you are not so ignorant as to not realize this. quote: even if you are only spanking someone, with the full consent of the person being spanked, if someone were to call the police you theoretically could be charged with assault, without any need of the spankee filing a complaint. Are you a police officer? A lawyer who specializes in cases such as this? I know for a fact…yes for a fact…that if the police were called because someone were spanking me; that the person arrested would not be charged with assault without my express cooperation; and even then, the chances of attaining a conviction of assault are almost nil. No, the law IS black and white. Hence, the expression "black-letter law", which I'm sure you are familiar with since you seem to be an expert and I'm merely ignorant. You're absolutely wrong, but since you know for a fact, and seem to have the facts, then present the facts. Just as a tip, try Westlaw and you may learn something. Chances are you are right, the person would not be charged because the officer would most likely laugh it off. That doesn't change the fact that the law is what it is and that the potential for the person to be charged is there. Do you think that he would laugh it off if the person you were with had just cut off your fingers and was sitting down to a nice barbeque of Irishmist? Which was the example presented in the original post.

Amaros -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/11/2008 9:49:22 AM)
Right, if either one of you admits that a spanking took place, in most jurisdicitions, the police's hands are tied: it's assault and the spanker goes to jail - sentencing in such cases are mandatory as well. You can thank mandatory sentencing laws which have largely taken discreation out of the hands of law enforcement - once you're in the system, they can't just let you go.

CruelDesires -> RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive (7/11/2008 10:03:54 AM)
Refer to it as "deep tissue butt massage" and then go on your merry way. CD

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