IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (Full Version)

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steviemichael -> IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 2:45:56 AM)

ever heard of the expression if it feels good than do it ?
is it what you know or the lack of knowing a factor concerning bdsm?and when a person says i am new to all of this  and dont know much but i am willing to know more at which point does one starting to experience that which they have learned ?
i know that some will say we never stop  learning in our choosen path!
but in our path do you think our experiences sometimes forsake all reason.
* i dont know why i love what i love to do !
because for myself i am more in realtionship with a brain then their body




ResidentSadist -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 3:13:21 AM)

I have been in the lifestyle and an active philanthropist in the BDSM community since my teens yet I still learn something new everyday.

As far as when something you learn becomes experience… I think it is when you use it or it becomes part of you. 



Stusmobile -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 3:23:49 AM)

Some things are an evolutionary type of learning whilst others are revolutionary.

An example of evolutionary could be something like spanking, you begin pretty basically and slowly over time learn new and different techniques. Although you have experienced the spanking itself and it is no longer new, you are on some level still learning and building your own style, preferences etc.

Revolutionary is more with a specific partner (although some things can be transferred). Its more of picking up on their triggers, the things that make them curl into a ball and beg. Knowing that certain word that will cause your sub to instantly begin to drip .... that word can only be learnt once and thus the first few times you recognise it you've become experienced with it.



IronBear -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 3:56:40 AM)

In answer to the title heading ( Is The Experience more important than the knowledge of BDSM?), which is I see as the real question without the flummery, I'd have to say a reasounding NO!

In every field of my life from the esoteric to the down and dirty practical knowledge of some degree is necessary and from that starting point, experience is a great teacher allowing you to pin point errors and to correct them. Experience also is a great teacher allowing you to hone your practical work. However as you gain experience you also gain knowledge. BDSM wise, I believe it is best to have some basic knowlegdge and often it is better to have a good deal of theoretical knowledge especially regarding the pit falls and dangers of some play areas. Even the knowledge of your partner and all relivent medical issues whivch may come into play.

Iron Bear
(Incorrigible, irrepressible and irreverent)
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.

Omar Khayyam 1048 CE to 1123 CE (Persian Mathematician, Scientist, Astronomer, Philosopher & Poet).



DesFIP -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 6:50:04 AM)

There's a lot of stuff I haven't done and I don't want to do. Some of which I've hard limited even though I've never tried it. What's most important in my book is for me to have a good knowledge of who I am and what I feel.

I didn't need experience to know that I was interested in bondage and disinterested in much more pain than a light spanking. It wasn't the knowledge of what I read that led the way. It was me knowing myself. And because I knew this is what I was interested in, I didn't bother looking for a sadist to experience it, instead I went looking for a bondage top to do something I already knew I would enjoy.



ServingGirrl -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 6:55:33 AM)

i would have thought that, to gain any useful and meaningful experience in BDSM terms a modicum of initial knowledge was a firm requirement.   You cannot set limits on subjects you don't know exist.   You cannot determine what is safe and sane with a total unknown.   You cannot consent freely to something of which you have no understanding and, if you do, the person that accepts that 'consent' is, in my opinion, acting as an abuser - of trust if nothing else.

i don't advocate that a person entering the kink lifestyle has to pass qualifying exams or have read 'X' number of books from some set reading list, but surely going directly from vanilla to BDSM with no intervening learning of knowledge is a recipe for disaster, disappointment and failure.

Just my 2 Australian Cent's worth



Mercnbeth -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 7:49:03 AM)

~ Fast Reply ~
 
Knowledge is essential. But maybe not the knowledge you assume. Sure its good to know the 'dictionary' but for the most part, if you don't know, people will be happy to give you their definitions, often contradictory to each other, to use until you determine the 'right' ones for you. Regarding WIITWD sometimes knowledge is required that you hope never to use. What to do in the event of a bad cut? When are cold hands due to room temperature versus being tied too tight? What are they symptoms of a pulled/torn muscle? When does a bound blue tit go from representing pretty torture, to permanent damage? It is also important, if not essential, to have knowledge about the person. That can not come from any book. That takes an investment of time with the potential partner. Knowing you need that knowledge is a good knowledge base.

Experience on the other hand should be fun, and doesn't require as much knowledge as you think. Some experience comes from practice. I've had a single tail for a couple years and so far have only used it on pillows and other inanimate objects; and the only person I've hurt with it has been me. I may never use it for anything more than a costume accessory because I don't think my experience qualifies me to use it on my slave. So I can say I have years of single tail experience and not be lying. That tells you that the representation of experience is not the determining factor of knowledge or skill.

Experience only requires a partner who you are comfortable enough to enjoy the shared experience. Lacking experience is nothing to be ashamed. Even coming from opposite ends of the experience spectrum compatibility is possible. beth had no experience what so ever when we met. Far from being an 'issue'; seeing everything new again through her eyes was as exciting to me as if I too was doing it all over again for the first time. Enjoy, have fun, try and laugh at your mistakes; or at least have a nice remote location in mind to bury them!
 [sm=pushed.gif]



Lockit -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 8:48:35 AM)

When one puts it all out there without brain in gear... one is dangerous and shouldn't ought to do that.  Hell no... if it feels good and is stupid... the smart don't do it.  Dumb and dumber was a movie... most of us had nothing to do with it.




Prinsexx -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 9:17:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

ever heard of the expression if it feels good than do it ?
is it what you know or the lack of knowing a factor concerning bdsm?and when a person says i am new to all of this  and dont know much but i am willing to know more at which point does one starting to experience that which they have learned ?
i know that some will say we never stop  learning in our choosen path!
but in our path do you think our experiences sometimes forsake all reason.
* i dont know why i love what i love to do !
because for myself i am more in realtionship with a brain then their body



Learning is in part state dependent. When I learned to walk I didn't learn it from reading a book. I did it (as far as I can remember because memory is in part state dependent) by falling over and hitting my head a few times.
I really don't know how I know how to assume the position......I just do what positions come naturally at the time.
I don't know why I love having my face smacked or hands art my throat until I can hardly breath: I certainly never read about it in a book.
By analogy: I could do modal verbs and negations and conditionals in the English language long before I knew what they were. I think knowing about my submission is the same thing.
Learning is also context dependent. In other words I learn what is safe for me also in the context of wehat is safe for theother/s. It's comforting to know others like the same things and use the same language'signals/skills for safety.
As for bdsm it's pretty damn hot meeting someone for whom a translator isn't required. And I am thankful someone has read a book on how to tie knots and/or absailed off a mountain. Comprendez? [:D]



LotusSong -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 10:17:32 AM)

Never mistake knowledge for wisdom.



MasterDragon1963 -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 1:17:02 PM)

Acquiring knowledge tends to be much safer than experience. For some, a leading factor is fear. Fear is not only an emotion, its a tool, one that teaches caution "case in point the girl who got 3rd degree burns learning about fire play". Fear can force us to take time to face a challenge, to overcome it. Another tool can be curiousity. We all move forward for different reasons, different speeds in different directions. But we all share on common thread, discovery. Learning the unknown, facing new frontier.

This paralles another good question I have seen. If one needs experience to scene, but has not scened before, than how does one get experience, by taking that first leap, usually with the help of someone brave enough to be your first. I attended a branding ceremony, where a friend was branding his slave, this was a first for both of them. After he branded his slave "normal enough" he turned, reheated the iron, and branded himself. To push upon another is one thing, but to step thru experience yourself can be another.

We never stop learning, exploring, discovering. Where we are going is seldom as interesting as how we get there.

Master Dragon



WhisperSupremacy -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 1:30:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~
 
Knowledge is essential. But maybe not the knowledge you assume. Sure its good to know the 'dictionary' but for the most part, if you don't know, people will be happy to give you their definitions, often contradictory to each other, to use until you determine the 'right' ones for you. Regarding WIITWD sometimes knowledge is required that you hope never to use. What to do in the event of a bad cut? When are cold hands due to room temperature versus being tied too tight? What are they symptoms of a pulled/torn muscle? When does a bound blue tit go from representing pretty torture, to permanent damage? It is also important, if not essential, to have knowledge about the person. That can not come from any book. That takes an investment of time with the potential partner. Knowing you need that knowledge is a good knowledge base.

Experience on the other hand should be fun, and doesn't require as much knowledge as you think. Some experience comes from practice. I've had a single tail for a couple years and so far have only used it on pillows and other inanimate objects; and the only person I've hurt with it has been me. I may never use it for anything more than a costume accessory because I don't think my experience qualifies me to use it on my slave. So I can say I have years of single tail experience and not be lying. That tells you that the representation of experience is not the determining factor of knowledge or skill.

Experience only requires a partner who you are comfortable enough to enjoy the shared experience. Lacking experience is nothing to be ashamed. Even coming from opposite ends of the experience spectrum compatibility is possible. beth had no experience what so ever when we met. Far from being an 'issue'; seeing everything new again through her eyes was as exciting to me as if I too was doing it all over again for the first time. Enjoy, have fun, try and laugh at your mistakes; or at least have a nice remote location in mind to bury them!
 [sm=pushed.gif]



Very well said.

I think knowledge and experience run hand in hand together.  Both equally important within the spectrum.  The experience is the essential fun, but the knowledge helps people understand how and why they have such desires in the first place.  It also helps them with the interaction of others and the understanding of their partners desires.



batshalom -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 3:47:23 PM)

Common sense, honesty, and the ability to evolve in your behavior and beliefs are as important as intelligence and more important than experience.



lally3 -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 4:10:56 PM)

you can have knowledge of bdsm practices but without the experience you cant call yourself knowledgeable because of the practicalities.

to experience bdsm without any knowledge of what you are doing or having done to you is potentially hazardous.

so though i would say that experience is knowledge or brings about knowledge in the context of bdsm, knowledge first, experience after.



gypsygrl -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 4:42:40 PM)

I look at 'knowledge' (for the purposes of this thread) as an acculmulation of experience, either direct or indirect.  So, I can read a book about SM written by a well known author and learn from their experience.  Or I can listen to other people tell about their own experiences, and get knowledge that way.  To me, it makes a lot of sense to pay attention to other's experiences before trying something out myself.   This kind of knowledge gives me something along the lines of a map that helps me find my way.  I'm not much of a pioneer. 



rook42 -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 6:03:12 PM)

Amen brother. Can I hear a hallelujah?

Neither are important. Knowing(rather, enough to start enjoying yourself) can be acquired very quickly and painlessly, nowadays, and experience is fun to collect. That having been said, BDSM is for you and your partners, and your level of credibility to third parties means nothing. If it's a potential partner, then I would think you would know them well enough to more accurately assess their credibility based on what you've seen, and there really isn't any use in the posturing and pride. Or the words. Oh god the words- BDSM is not a vocabulary test.

It's not like there's any point in measuring either. If you meet someone doing something you appreciate and think would add to your own relationships: steal it from them, and thank them. Now you know. Sure, they may have had more knowledge/experience in whatever the subject is, but you can still learn off em. They may have had to pay for that knowledge with skin off their own back. You're getting it cheap. If they have less, assess the value, take what you want, and leave the rest; it's not like you have to take their bad habits too.

As far as the actual play is concerned, a lack of humility has no positive value for anyone, really, and it tends to be a byproduct of emphasizing your own knowledge and experience. It's just as accurate and easy to argue your penis is bigger because your bag is larger and more black.

That having been said, the experienceS  are rather nice to treasure.

Wow... Reading back here, pretty intense response. I've been pretty happy lately with the lack of pettiness in the kinksters I've met lately, to be honest, so I think I was generalizing a bit. I was actually thinking of other interests as well as I wrote this. The negative tendencies you can see in groups of people have nothing to do with kink.



candystripper -> RE: IS THE EXPERIENCE MORE INPORTANT THAN THE KNOWLEDGE OF BDSM ? (7/1/2008 10:56:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

ever heard of the expression if it feels good than do it ?
is it what you know or the lack of knowing a factor concerning bdsm?and when a person says i am new to all of this  and dont know much but i am willing to know more at which point does one starting to experience that which they have learned ?
i know that some will say we never stop  learning in our choosen path!
but in our path do you think our experiences sometimes forsake all reason.
* i dont know why i love what i love to do !
because for myself i am more in realtionship with a brain then their body




Learning may come from experience, but it isn't may favorite way -- especially if we are talking about new forms of D/s sex or play.
 
Experience (hopefully) leads directly to learning, at least about yourself.  (O, do that again!)
 
They are inexticably entwined.
 
candystripper



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