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what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 11:33:10 AM

teacherpet

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A question about what is obscenity. There was a recent court case in Calif that was going to possibly have a big impact on how the courts define what is obscene. A guy had made movies involving some nasty things and in an ironic twist, a mistrial was declared when it was found that the judge presiding over the case was found to have significant collection of porn on his computer, some of it similar to the defendants. The Supreme court ruled in the 70’s that obscenity was defined partly by the following – whether the average person, applying community standards, would find the that the work appeals to the prurient interest. ! First off, how does one figure out who the average person is and how does anyone figure out what community standards are? Basically says that if some people are offended (usually the most conservative) then no one is allowed to view it.

Obscenity is in the eye of the beholder. As long as no one else is being forced to watch or look at it, as long as the viewer is okay with it, then nothing should be legally barred (unless other laws are being broken ie a child is involved)

How do you think obscenity should be defined?

Post #: 1

RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 11:48:25 AM

crouchingtigress

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*spider senses tingling*....that is scary

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 11:54:52 AM

CalifChick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: teacherpet

First off, how does one figure out who the average person is and how does anyone figure out what community standards are? Basically says that if some people are offended (usually the most conservative) then no one is allowed to view it.

There was more to this story... didn't they use google search statistics to show that the majority did NOT find the material offensive and therefore community standards are in fact, LOWER than previously thought?

Cali

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 11:55:49 AM

bashfulhuck

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I'm not so sure that is needs to be defined. I'm sorry but what happens between consenting adults out of the public eye is nobody else's business, and should not be regulated whatsoever.
If someone finds porn distasteful, don't watch it, just don't try to push your morals off onto me, and I won't do the same in return. This country is supposed to be built on freedom, yet you see crap like this going on.
The government should leave my morals to myself and my Owner, so long as we hurt nobody else, and all we play with are consensual.

bashful

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Post #: 4

RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 12:07:10 PM

writerly808

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Obscenity really is something that, like most other things, is very much a personal thing. What one person finds obscene may be what another person finds run-of-the-mill (case in point, this site). I guess you could say that it's what you can handle before your comfort level hits that glass ceiling.

Of course, what's between consenting adults is no nevermind to anyone else, imo, as long as it's not hurting anyone in a bad way. There are things that I doubt I will ever do, but I don't automatically label them obscene or disgusting. Perverted, yes, but most people are, in some manner. And honestly, when was the last time prudery ever did anyone any good? :D

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 12:11:56 PM

batshalom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: teacherpet

First off, how does one figure out who the average person is and how does anyone figure out what community standards are? Basically says that if some people are offended (usually the most conservative) then no one is allowed to view it.

My guess is that a random sample was generated (how they chose their sample from the population, I have no idea) the sample's answers tabulated and a standard deviation figured, and some sort of statistic calculated on a ratio scale. The only problem is that the intervals won't be the same from one person to the next, unless they used and either / or question like "Is this obscene or not obscene?"

Those who are extremely conservative and extremely liberal would be considered outliers and probably not in the sample - 70% of scores will fall within one standard deviation of the mean, and 95% of scores will fall within two standard deviations, which leaves the outliers ... well ... out there all alone.

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 2:45:06 PM

ftmyersartist

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Florida tried to use the standard of "Does material provide artistic, informative, or educational value beyond the value as a sexually provocative material?"

Then someone looked at the Florida education system and said "Ok. . .so much for that definition"

Personally. . . I find infomercials, get rich quick schemes, and things that promise people a better life that blatantly lie and are nothing but money grubbing cons obscene.

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 2:51:54 PM

fluffyswitch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: teacherpet

First off, how does one figure out who the average person is and how does anyone figure out what community standards are? Basically says that if some people are offended (usually the most conservative) then no one is allowed to view it.

There was more to this story... didn't they use google search statistics to show that the majority did NOT find the material offensive and therefore community standards are in fact, LOWER than previously thought?

Cali

yeah. essentially. which is what researchers have been hinting at for years.

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 3:07:13 PM

kiwisub12

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Obscene is anything i find offensive - and i don't look at it.

My obscenity meter has changed over the years, and continues to change. For one person or a court to decide what is obscene is obscene - or at least a travesty. very probably the people trying to come up with a definition actually don't find most of what they are ruling against obscene - they just don't want their neighbours to know what a freak they are.

Me ? - i don't have that problem. Kids, animals and amputations are the only hard limits i have come up with so far - oh, and badly acted porn from men with tube sox and t-shirts.

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Post #: 9

RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 3:17:34 PM

SweetNika

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What is obscene varies from person to person a great example in my eyes is the Statue of David. I think as individuals we must define what we find obscene avoid those things, although there are times because of moral delimas avoidance is not the answer.

Blessed be,
Nika

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 3:21:18 PM

kiwisub12

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PUT A FIGLEAF OVER THAT PENIS PLEASE! and then there were the government officials that put cloth around the female nude statues in the ?rotunda when they gave a speech there - in case they offended anyone. PLEASE!!!! Talk about PC run rampant.

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Post #: 11

RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 4:49:27 PM

truesub4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ftmyersartist

Florida tried to use the standard of "Does material provide artistic, informative, or educational value beyond the value as a sexually provocative material?"

Then someone looked at the Florida education system and said "Ok. . .so much for that definition"

Personally. . . I find infomercials, get rich quick schemes, and things that promise people a better life that blatantly lie and are nothing but money grubbing cons obscene.

Born in Fla here also and agree....

As for the informercials.... lose weight..... get rich... excercise machines... and Chuck Norris..... are very obscene....(wonder if Chuck Norris is a submissive?....)

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 5:25:55 PM

MistressSybella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: teacherpet

How do you think obscenity should be defined?

I think your avatar photo is obscene.

Kidding. ;)

Miss 'Bella

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Post #: 13

RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 5:31:11 PM

Griswold

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Joined: 2/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: teacherpet

A question about what is obscenity. There was a recent court case in Calif that was going to possibly have a big impact on how the courts define what is obscene. A guy had made movies involving some nasty things and in an ironic twist, a mistrial was declared when it was found that the judge presiding over the case was found to have significant collection of porn on his computer, some of it similar to the defendants. The Supreme court ruled in the 70’s that obscenity was defined partly by the following – whether the average person, applying community standards, would find the that the work appeals to the prurient interest. ! First off, how does one figure out who the average person is and how does anyone figure out what community standards are? Basically says that if some people are offended (usually the most conservative) then no one is allowed to view it.

Obscenity is in the eye of the beholder. As long as no one else is being forced to watch or look at it, as long as the viewer is okay with it, then nothing should be legally barred (unless other laws are being broken ie a child is involved)

How do you think obscenity should be defined?

Okay...the question is valid...your preamble was lacking.

The Judge had some of the "court (case) porn" on the court website to discuss with other judiciary.

He didn't have it "on his computer".

Now...that set aside....he shouldn't have, more importantly...he should have had that data on a web site that was entirely controlled by a password and encryption set.

Once again...he didn't.

Oooops.

However, that's no excuse for people (posting here) to misrepresent the facts.

< Message edited by Griswold -- 7/2/2008 5:33:52 PM >

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 5:34:45 PM

devoutHeretic

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What do i find obscene?

Sylvia Brown, James Van Praag, John Edward...

pretty much any of the "psychic" assholes that prey on the grief and fear of people.

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 5:35:36 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: teacherpet

Obscenity is in the eye of the beholder. As long as no one else is being forced to watch or look at it, as long as the viewer is okay with it, then nothing should be legally barred

I think you answered your own question.

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 6:07:55 PM

petdave

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i can't remember who said it, but i've always liked this definition:

"Obscenity is somebody else's pornography that you don't like"

In a legal sense, it involves declaring one person's morality to be valid, and another's to be invalid. As a victimless crime, i believe "obscenity" should not be grounds for prosecution.

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Post #: 17

RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 7:05:21 PM

ResidentSadist

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Like many have said, it is in the eye of the beholder. To me, I see a bouquet of flowers as a pile of severed plant genitalia. I presume that when courting you give a lady a pretty pile of severed plant genitalia hope she will quid pro quo and return the gesture by giving you her genitalia. I can’t imagine the tradition starting for any other reason other than bathing used to be an annual affair and maybe it was an attempt to cover each other’s stench.

I see the obscenity and violence in life every day. I see it everyday, I see it atmy breakfast table because I know eggs are unborn chickens and bacon is strips of pig. I know that the ground up cereal is the seed pods… the un-hatched babies of plants. The same with the ground up unborn children of wheat that is powdered and made into toast. There on table next to all these mutated and processed unborn things is a bouquet of genitalia. To some this perspective is obscene.

I once met some kids that didn’t know hamburgers were made from cows or that meat came from once living animals. Now I’m not gonna’ start eating salad with my fingers like the passenger on the train in Hostile II but, to me it is obscene to not teach someone that they are a predator living off of the flesh of others. It gives them a false view of the world and their true and possibly obscene role in it.

It is this society that lives under that false pretense, that delusion that meat comes from stores not animals, that flower bouquets aren’t the severed reproductive organs of plants, that seeds aren’t the unborn children of plants… it is these comfortable delusions that leave someone so sheltered that they could conceivable judge pictures of sexual acts as obscene compared to the reality of daily life.

Everything and anything can be obscene if you do it right! I like obscenity and often strive to achieve the highest state of it as possible. I like life up close and in my face, reality tastes good!

- Thank you for listening, pass the unborn chickens and a slice of dead wheat babies please!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[edit: P.S.] In my rambling diatribe I failed to blatantly state that I agree with OP that “nothing should be legally barred” and either nothing or everything is defined as obscene depending on how you look at it. Thank you for the nice post teacherpet.

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 7/2/2008 7:34:35 PM >

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/2/2008 11:05:37 PM

SurrenderForMe

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Definining obscenity is the same as defining age of consent. You go with your gut and hope that it affects the majority of the people it impacts in a positive way, in the group sense.

In a personal sense, just like everyone else. I apply my perception of right and wrong and make a judgement based on my experience, upbringing, prejudices, emotions and as much rationality as I can bring to bear.

Insoluble on a group level.

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RE: what is obscene? - 7/3/2008 12:51:47 AM

MsValentine

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If I think how it should be defined, I would say a mixture of the immediate instinctive reaction intermixed and tempered with a few minutes of cold hard thinking with a big dose of rationality thrown in. No one should be allowed to get away with saying something is obscene without being able to articulate why and what that means to them. Is something going to corrupt and deprave and does that thing really offend accepted sexual morals? Is 'offending' anything really a good reason for censorship. Being offended always strikes me as a very bourgeois thing. As if in life we have any right to go through it unoffended by everything. Sometimes we have to be big and say I don't like it, but each to their own and I will just not read, watch or look at that which 'offends' me.

Some things may look at first view to be 'offensive' but the purpose or intent behind may alter whether it ultimately is adjudged obscene.

I think nowadays we have more trouble deciding what would be obscene as the population is less homogenous and more likely to draw moral standards from a variety of places. Once upon a time when morals were drawn from a limited set of origins, one could say that a lot of people would definitely find an image or piece of text obscene. "Lady Chatterleys Lover" was once considered obscene and now is a minor classic by a world renowed author.

If we are to do as we have done so far, which is pander to the most easily offended, then much will be judged obscene. Finding an average is also going to be difficult as we know there is no such thing as an average person.

< Message edited by MsValentine -- 7/3/2008 1:21:14 AM >

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