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RE: Proper conduct - 7/4/2008 9:45:35 AM

MsValentine

Posts: 82
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet

I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Nipinski.

I am weak with temptation Ms LadyPact, please forgive me.

Sometimes sbman21, when you come here looking for explanation
or validation, they will beat you over the head with it. Enjoy that.

chia* (the pet)

I didn't mean to ignore sbman21's original post. What do I make of it. You are a lucky man. You had a great time as you said and that should be the end of it unless people start labelling the lady who gave you that wonderful erotic experience a prostitute and mean it in the most perjorative of ways. I had hoped you might come back and stand up for the lady but as you haven't, I have.

I had hoped CollarMe might be a place full of broadminded, intelligent, people who share a common position, that of being sexually outside the norm. Some people validate themselves by putting others down or labelling them in negative ways. It is a shame as I thought as a community we are trying to break down boundaries of petty labelling and judgements.

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Post #: 21

RE: Proper conduct - 7/4/2008 9:47:25 AM

Madame4a

Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline

I think you're making a lot of assumptions... just because someone is here doesn't mean they are open minded.

And just because someone doesn't agree with YOUR point of view also doesn't necessarily mean they are not open or broad minded... funny how that goes

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

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Post #: 22

RE: Proper conduct - 7/4/2008 10:06:59 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

Yep, but here's another that doesn't get as much attention.

MsValentine, I understand that you are defending your point of view on the subject, but let Me throw this out to you.

Just because people are kinky, doesn't mean that they aren't judgemental. People have to make their own judgements for themselves and what's right for them. Just as much as you believe that this scenerio is perfectly fine, there are going to be other people out there who say it isn't.

Each of us has not only the right, but the responsibility, to decide what is acceptable in our personal lives and what isn't. I have to admit to a personal irritation when a statement is made about a person's beliefs, by whatever standards they have chosen to form them, and they are told that they shouldn't have them, for whatever reason. The usual retort is the same manipulative tactic of, "Oh, I thought kinky people were so much more open minded than that". Basically, what you are saying is, if they don't think like you, their opinion isn't valid, or you believe yourself so much more enlightened because of yours.

Personally, I happen to think judgements have a greater place in BDSM than most people are willing to admit. It's how we decided what we will do, who we will do it with, and what is acceptable to us. No, I'm not completely abdocating that we should be harsh in those judgements, but there is a non PC line that should still hold between YKINMK and every thing that any person could possibly imagine is ok. Not everything, including some of the tame stuff, is right for everybody else.

ETA, had I read Madame4a's later post before adding My own, I probably could have saved the keystrokes.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 7/4/2008 10:09:21 AM >

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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Post #: 23

RE: Proper conduct - 7/4/2008 10:34:54 AM

MsValentine

Posts: 82
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

Yep, but here's another that doesn't get as much attention.

MsValentine, I understand that you are defending your point of view on the subject, but let Me throw this out to you.

Just because people are kinky, doesn't mean that they aren't judgemental. People have to make their own judgements for themselves and what's right for them. Just as much as you believe that this scenerio is perfectly fine, there are going to be other people out there who say it isn't.

Each of us has not only the right, but the responsibility, to decide what is acceptable in our personal lives and what isn't. I have to admit to a personal irritation when a statement is made about a person's beliefs, by whatever standards they have chosen to form them, and they are told that they shouldn't have them, for whatever reason. The usual retort is the same manipulative tactic of, "Oh, I thought kinky people were so much more open minded than that". Basically, what you are saying is, if they don't think like you, their opinion isn't valid, or you believe yourself so much more enlightened because of yours.

Personally, I happen to think judgements have a greater place in BDSM than most people are willing to admit. It's how we decided what we will do, who we will do it with, and what is acceptable to us. No, I'm not completely abdocating that we should be harsh in those judgements, but there is a non PC line that should still hold between YKINMK and every thing that any person could possibly imagine is ok. Not everything, including some of the tame stuff, is right for everybody else.

ETA, had I read Madame4a's later post before adding My own, I probably could have saved the keystrokes.

Okay, I can see how my opinions might sound a though I am saying if you don't agree with me, then you're opinions aren't valid. That is not the case and I apologise if that is how it came across.

I will believe unless someone can persuade me otherwise by debate my opinion is right for me.

I also agree that everyone can be as open or closed minded as they wish to be. When we disagree, we have debate.

I also make judgements but I will always try to explain why I feel the way I do about something. I think I have done so regarding pro-dommes, prostitutes and my response to the Op regarding his experience.

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Post #: 24

RE: Proper conduct - 7/4/2008 11:04:51 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

It's all fine, dear. There's a reason they call it a discussion board.

I won't say that anyone else isn't entitled to their opinion. If something is ok between two, or more parties, then I'm perfectly good with it. Just because it isn't right for Me doesn't mean it isn't right for somebody else. At the same time, I think that everyone gets to decide for themselves. Just like the scenario described in the OP, some people accept it and others don't. I'm even sure there are some out there who would be thrilled to death if it happened to them.

I'm on this personal kick lately about My convictions that people should define what is right for them. Not everybody is going to be the same in this regard. The great thing about that is, they don't have to be. Some people are going to be totally different than others. Some people will even burst certain stereo-types. Some people will just be people....... who happen to be kinky.

Anyway, I did notice that you've come along here, and if no one has done it properly, I would like to welcome you.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Post #: 25

RE: Proper conduct - 7/4/2008 12:57:46 PM

MsValentine

Posts: 82
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It's all fine, dear. There's a reason they call it a discussion board.

I won't say that anyone else isn't entitled to their opinion. If something is ok between two, or more parties, then I'm perfectly good with it. Just because it isn't right for Me doesn't mean it isn't right for somebody else. At the same time, I think that everyone gets to decide for themselves. Just like the scenario described in the OP, some people accept it and others don't. I'm even sure there are some out there who would be thrilled to death if it happened to them.

I'm on this personal kick lately about My convictions that people should define what is right for them. Not everybody is going to be the same in this regard. The great thing about that is, they don't have to be. Some people are going to be totally different than others. Some people will even burst certain stereo-types. Some people will just be people....... who happen to be kinky.

Anyway, I did notice that you've come along here, and if no one has done it properly, I would like to welcome you.

The WELCOME is much appreciated. Thanks....

People on here will find that I do love a discussion and yes, like all of us I have some little things which get me going. I am a strongly opinionated person, so maybe I will ruffle some feathers sometimes. I do admire good sense, logic and clear thinking and so hope that my encounters on these boards will be filled with these things contributed by others and sometimes by myself.

V x

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Post #: 26

RE: Proper conduct - 7/5/2008 1:51:44 AM

snowslave

Posts: 30
Joined: 9/5/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

LOL!!!!

Okay, I'll just add my two cents: I have never been to a BDSM house. I'm guessing a fee has to be paid to the house. I'm also guessing the Domme was paid by the house for her performance. Technically, she engaged in a sex act for money therefore, while she may not BE a prostitute, she committed the act of prostitution. At least that will be the position taken by the city attorney who would prosecute the case if the act had been witnessed by a cop.

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Post #: 27

RE: Proper conduct - 7/5/2008 5:59:50 AM

chiaThePet

Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

So how come the damn horse gets to have all the fun?

Just saying.

chia* (the pet)

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You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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Post #: 28

RE: Proper conduct - 7/5/2008 9:26:26 AM

LexiTempest

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

A pro-domme advertises her time, and expertise and does not ( as far as I am aware) advertise herself as willing to be fucked orally, anally or vaginally.
Answer: nothing to do with her being the sexually receptive partner, just sexual act for money/services = prostitution. 'pro' stands for prostitute/professional/paid for sex act. Client = fee-for-service, so of course lawyers and hairdressers have them, too.

Hate to burst your bubble, but "professional" does not equal "prostitute." Great that you picked up on the fact that hookers are sometimes called "pros," but surely you're not suggesting that professional photographers, wrestlers (however fake it may be), football/baseball/basketball players, etc are prostitutes as well...
It sounds like you're saying anyone who is a professional/has clients is a hooker.

Which begs the question, have you ever put out on a date after someone bought you dinner? Ever make love to a boyfriend after he gave you a gift? If so, then you're a prostitute, too :)

*Edited to include quote*

< Message edited by LexiTempest -- 7/5/2008 10:25:51 AM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Proper conduct - 7/5/2008 10:17:24 AM

LexiTempest

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsValentine

Very well, we shall have to agree to differ on what constitutes prostitution. However, I still find it hard to believe that a lady who gets an extra of something sexually satisfying for herself while running a pro-domme session makes her a prostitute is ludicrous. Did she blatantly offer that as part of the session.NO. She offered it up like a discretionary cup of tea and biscuits. If the sub could not demand that service of her, she was not doing it for money. It was a free biscuit for being a good boy!

Apparently, you are not familiar with US law (which I'm not faulting you on, I know you're from the UK). It DOES make her a prostitute under our legal system. Hell, she could be considered a prostitute for tweaking a client's nipples! The cops don't say "Oh gee, we see here in your ad that you didn't actually advertise sex, so we won't charge you with prostitution."

Also,

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsValentine
Pro-dommes do regularly and always have used strap-ons on their male subs, to fuck them and/or humiliate them... Is this also evidence of prostitution?

The answer would be yes, however, not all dommes do this! Penetration, in fact, just touching an erogenous zone after money has been exchanged = prostitution BY LAW. So don't flame me now saying I'm calling Pro Dommes hookers when you really just missed the point all along. I know that fucking a guy with a strap-on isn't worth losing a job over for a lot of Pro Dommes because they could go to jail for it. Dungeons are shut down all the time for this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsValentine
Now, on your ideas about prostitutes all being sad, coerced, unwilling victims...you are wrong. I know a great deal about the sex industry in the UK at least I can tell you for sure that many, if not most prostitutes are women in their own premises doing something they are willing to do for money. If anyone is doing anything against their will for employment, be it of a sexual or non sexual nature, then that is wrong and should be addressed as an issue about poverty, lack of education, and all the issues which go to create conditions in which people feel trapped in work they hate yet cannot leave or better themselves if they do leave.

Great for them. Here, not so much. Remember, it's not legal here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsValentine
You pay for those things on offer, anything else is a free bonus! If you cannot demand that of the lady, then you have not paid for it.

Unfortunately for some, the cops (and our entire penal system) don't see "bonus sex after money is exchanged" any more legal than "bonus crack rock after money is exchanged" Think about it- how would a Domme prove her innocence? Wouldn't ACTUAL prostitutes start using that excuse to avoid jail time?

Everybody's talking but no one's listening. You're arguing different points.

*Edited to fix font size*

< Message edited by LexiTempest -- 7/5/2008 10:19:53 AM >

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Post #: 30

RE: Proper conduct - 7/6/2008 12:47:53 PM

sbman21

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/28/2008
Status: offline

I appreciate all the replies to my original post. What I was looking for was a comment perhaps from a domme as to whether this was unusual or not. Pro dommes as a rule make it clear that no physical or sexual contact is allowed. I guess my ego hopes that in some way she was attracted to me and it just happened. Or, as I said if she just chose to use me that was okay too. In no way did I ever consider it prostitution. After all I paid her and satisfied her.

sbman21

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Post #: 31

RE: Proper conduct - 7/6/2008 12:50:03 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

Don't know. Want to come to Atlatna?
So how come the damn horse gets to have all the fun?

Just saying.

chia* (the pet)