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Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 6:45:47 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I love my country, and that is exactly why I will not be celebrating.

I love my country, like an errant child, but like in that case, I believe it is time for tough love. We have become a communist society, but not so much through the government, but by the companies that own the government.

Personal resposibility is gone. Everything is almost gone. Rights are bestowed, not assumed. Priveleges are abound all over the place. Equal justice is never even mentioned. And our people are lazy and almost worthless.

And those of you want to tell me to love it or leave it can go fuck yourselves. I am not going anywhere. At least here I know the ropes, and that's been tried. When they gave half of Europe to Russia people left it, and now THIS country is fucked up.

I speak as a patriot, a true one, not the flag waving kind. I have never recited the pledge of allegiance in it's entirety because is says to the flag. The flag is a rag. It is our national spirit and collective conciousness, coupled with our rugged individualism that makes (made) this country great. These things are gone now.

I shall explain.

When you wanted a $140,000 quad bypass for free, you GAVE them the right to ban trans fat in New York.

When you wanted to be fixed up for ten or twenty grand after finding out that you do not know how to drive safely, you GAVE them the right to make seatbelt laws.

When you wanted your house fixed for free after a fire, you GAVE them the right to inspect your wiring.

When you wanted to retire you GAVE them the right to make a deduction on your paycheck.

Are you getting my drift here ? If I have to pay when you have a car wreck, I want you not to drive if you are incapable. If I have to pay for your quadruple bypass operation I want control over what you eat. It is only right. Would you take a small personal fortune and insure Evil Knevil ? What are you kidding me ?

So don't come crying to me about all the rights you have lost, you have given them up freely.

And you know something ? Up until the last few years I heard fireworks for two weeks at least befor the fourth of July, and for a few days after. In the last week I have heard one, and only one small firecracker go off. Maybe others are coming around. Independence day my ass, Jay Leno had it right maybe, In Depends day. We all need protection.

This is sickening to me. I will celebrate. I will wash a load of clothes, get out a frying pan and fry me up a burger, and sit here and drink and smoke. I'll surf the net, who knows I might even do something work related online. Maybe I'll wash some blankets and pillowcases.

When I see the spirit of this country that I remember return, I will be by your side, blowing off bottle rockets right from my hand like I used to and spending hundreds on fireworks. But until then I see no reason to celebrate.

Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of opportunity in the US, but US citizens don't know how to use it. Immigrants come here and do well, but we can't for some reason. Can someone explain that ? Actually I can but I won't right now.

The fact is, anyone who has an inkling of a notion of how this country is supposed to be has nothing whatsoever to celebrate.

Go ahead and tell me of your patriotism. "Well we went and bought a new plasma TV and a grill, and my Husband is out there right now cooking Johnsonville Brats on it because we coudn't afford steaks".

Lay it on me. Flame me even, I kinda expect it. I don't expect this post to be well recieved, just try to be polite. Tell me to fuck off, tell me I am an asshole, just don't use the words outright. Just DO NOT tell me to love it or leave it. That is to tell me that how fucked up it is that we cannot change, we cannot pull ourselves out of the mess we have gotten into and that there is no hope. I WILL NOT ACCEPT THAT.

You got kids and going to have a party ? Get out a fucking book or find something interesting about this country to relate to them. It is not all hotdogs, slide rides and firecrackers. There is supposed to be a spirit here, and it is GONE. Perhaps it can be rekindled, but not if nobody tries.

Like Christmas, what I said about letting the kids think they got nothing. You think you just do that ? Even though I am not a Christian, if I had kids on Christmas day I would explain what it is, and probably find some stories about Jesus to tell them. He was a great Man, of that there is no doubt, but his purpose in life was not to increase retail fucking sales !

Likewise with Independence day, I would orchestrate a situation by with the kids would find out something, anything, about the origins of this country and how it all came about.

On Easter I would do something similar, it wouldn't be an egg hunt. I would tell them that the Jews and I do not believe that there was a resurrection, that Joshua bar Joseph was one of the baddest mofos on the planet and they only thought he was dead. Took him probably a day to recoup, and another couple to get out of the cave. Then he went traveling. It would not be wise to be sticking around when you are supposed to be dead. And he had the smarts not to go see all his old friends and family, just git.

Thanksgiving, now that is a problem for me because it synbolizes what we are, and etches into my mind that we have been nasty for a long time. Thankgiving is a celebration of a feast that the settlers had with the natives of this country. It symbolizes what our friendship means, because the Native American welcomed the White settlers with open arms, taught them how to survive here and helped them in many ways.

Never do that, look what happened. Attempted genocide, sabotage like giving them blankets they knew were infested with a deadly disease. Taught them how to scalp, originally it was the White man who paid for scalps, like pelts. Let Thanksgiving symbolize what it means to be our friend. You give all that we want to take. Period. You get nothing.

You may see this all as negative, in fact I do. I welcome anyone to refute it though. Tell me something, something good. Anything good.

Can you ?

T
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 7:04:07 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		ok,I won`t...

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 7:12:12 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		What I see as negative is your strong implication that it is every single resident of the US that has caused this, except for you.
Now that is bullshit.

You say you 'never' have said the Pledge of Allegiance because it represents things that are gone, so did you feel that same way in the third grade? That everyone around you destroyed all the good?

Do you actually do anything to try and change things?
Real things that don't include posting messages.

Term I don't mean to sound bitchy. I happen to like the majority of your posts but the attitude that you are the only one that sees 'the truth' is false.


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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 8:29:59 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I guess I can accept that.

I have however tried not to be part of the problem. Few can say as much. But remember that I said tried. I may indeed be part of the problem, but that depends on what you describe as that problem. But at least I try to remain cognizant of the situation and try not to make it worse. So I take your criticism as a substatement of the blanket statement, that I am not perfect.

And the pledge of allegiance was never an issue with something gone, it was a pledge to a flag. A flag is a piece of cloth and I saw the truth at five or six years old. I'd make it look like I was complying, but then why should I ? I was taught very differently than others, symbolism means nothing to me. A Man showing me a scar he got in the war is more of a symbol than ANY rag could ever be. I said strraight out that a flag does not make a people, that their ambitions and true wealth comprise that, not a piece of cloth. That opinion has never changed.

Let me tell you this, if a bunch of Venezuelans came here and had a protest, and burned the US flag I would have no problem with it. If US citizens do it I have a problem. It is the wanton and public (usually) destruction of one of our national SYMBOLS, and such action is carried out to get some sort of message across. What is that message, unless the prupose is to simply piss off as many people as you can ?

It is not the SYMBOL I care about, it is the message.

And cammille, if you would like to talk to my RL friends I can arrainge that, and they will all tell you the same thing, that they learned more at my house than at school. I have moved people from welfare to work (one fucker makes more money then me !), I have gotten people temporary homes, and I don't mean let them stay with me, and I have done some serious counselling. Request details about that on the other side if you wish.

And what I see as the truth may not be so different than the truth that others can see, but I seem to see more of it. If I were to describe my background people would say that I should write a book.

I have given up on moral judgements when it comes to the past, for the most part. There are exceptions. When Israel forgets about the holocaust I will forget about the USS Liberty. When China forgets about Ohio State I will forget about Tiannemen(sp) Square. When Russia forgets about all the money they spend in the cold war, that is the first step to me forgetting about my money that was used for that. Yes, back then I paid taxes.

So I must retort with this, I do not contend that I am the only one who sees the truth, but I maintain and still assert that I see more of it.

T

(in reply to camille65)
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 8:38:29 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		        Seems like a mighty independent way of looking at it, Termy.  I'd say your post is a fitting tribute to exactly what we are supposed to celebrate today.

       Thanks for the reminder.  I needed to put up the flag.

      

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 9:17:52 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		 
Take a look at your car... was it built in America? Was it at least built by a company that keeps a majority of it's manufacturing here in this country?

How about that TV set? Or that computer your using to read this? Where and by whom were they built? Did the wealth you spent on them stay here in the US, to feed and clothe American workers?

Did you vote for the pissant in office right now? Were you actually fooled by his "I'm going to run this country like a business" bullshit?

Did you throw in with the assholes who pulled that whole "Freedom Fries" crap, when France was trying to just warn us off from the looming quagmire?

Did you actually go out and buy plastic sheeting and duct tape?

Think about it... how many times have you been manipulated by the Bush administration? How many times have you listened to shit heads who tel you that flag burning is a MAJOR issue in this country? Or that Obama not wearing a flag pin marks him out as the devil incarnate? How many of you out there listen to crap like "The knuckle bump" is a terrorist sign? Or that his middle name is the same as our now sead enemy, thus he must be some kind of "stealth candidate" for Al Queida?

Some (in fact, I'd venture to say most) of you are really fucking stupid sheep. Pure and simple.

Happy 4th of July everyone. God Bless America! Land of the sort-of-free (but all of our phone calls are tracked, just in case), home of the brave (so long as being "brave" doesn't mean having to give up my gas guzzler, cellphone, or microwave oven.) with war, and social injustice for all! (thanks to a Supreme Court being packed with GOP hardliners)


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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 9:28:12 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm not going to tell you to love it or leave, or anything of the sort.  Instead, I'm going to say one simple thing.

It's thanks to people like My husband and My sub who serve in the military, that are there to defend, not only the country that you bash, but also your right to do so.

Enough said.


_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 9:39:28 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Here here!!! 

I did 6 years in the USMC, and not like our president who did not have to show up or if he ever did it was stateside.   

Did you ever stand and defend Term? 

I don't think I'm better than anybody because I served, "I just wish you would say Thank you and be on your way" (sounds best in Jack Nickelsons voice)


(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 9:47:11 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		The Op tittle says it best...what Bullshit!!!!

(in reply to housesub4you)
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 11:01:49 AM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline 		T you lost me on some of the holidays but I agree with a lot about what you said regarding this country.  I have to agree with camile though and point out that that there a lot (even though no where near a majority) of people that also stand up and work for what they feel needs to be fixed.  There are people that actually think about things, form rational decisions and work hard towards those decisions.  There are people that listen and are willing to look at their convictions from a new perspective.  There are also people that work hard for their convictions but are own a completely different tack from my own.  There are also people that just want what's easy and aren't willing to work for anything.

I think more of us need to say what we think and why.  We need to open our mouths but also open our ears.  We have a tremendous opportunity in this country and we need to step up and make it what it can be.

Now is any of this unpatriotic?  Not to me it isn't.  I sort of get tired of people taking an opinion where we don't think America is 100% perfect then throw out something to suggest that those thoughts are un-american.  They usually get stated as "I fought hard in the military for your right to be a jerk."  I don't think wanting this country to be a better place is being a jerk at all.  I think people who aren't afraid to look at the good and the bad and are willing to own the two and work for improvement are huge patriots.  To stick my head in the sand and say everything is fine is like doing so at a personal level.  I have never met an individual that doesn't have room for growth and improvement.  I hope I never forget that I can be better.

It's like being a parent and having a kids who start to go down the wrong path.  Do I say "wow honey it's great you decided to drop out of high school and hang out in the park all day?"  Or, do I say "I love you with all of my heart but I can't let you ruin your life.  This has got to stop even if you hate me for making you?"  The same is true in business.  I'm not disloyal to my company if I disagree with a direction it's taking.  I'm trying to make the company I work for the best that it can be.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 11:47:19 AM   
KLRDan


Posts: 30
Joined: 5/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I speak as a patriot, a true one, not the flag waving kind. I have never recited the pledge of allegiance in it's entirety because is says to the flag. The flag is a rag.



I agree with you. My patriotic allegiance is to the Constitution and nothing else. A flag's meaning is extremely malleable and therefore always suspect. It changes to reflect the zeitgeist, and I happen to despise the present American zeitgeist. Junk food, a sense of entitlement, massive debt, willful smiling blindness to the massive debt, the delusion that prosperity must last forever, the bovine presumption that low prices and speedy customer service are God-given rights--and Pyromania Day, the Fourth of July, when we celebrate it all!

I intend to spend today re-reading The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine (who is my only hero, by the way).

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(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 11:55:35 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I saw PAPER PLATES and NAPKINS printed with the flag.

How fucking disrespectful can they get?



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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 12:35:35 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		WeLL!

I neVER.

Just what does it mean to "celebrate"?  If it means shopping, then I concur.

If it means going to a fire works show, then for myself I dont get excited over it.

I am not as jaded  as the OP at this hour.

I am glad to live in the great country that I do.

Would I be more comfy in the USSR, China, India, or elsewhere?  No.

The global business grid and societal norms are the angst-y-man here.

Your beef Term is with globalized business.

So what does it mean to "not"  celebrate?

For a "problem solver"  you sound despondent and whiny right now.

Chin up. Be happy.  Stay out of the mall. 



(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 12:45:06 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I saw PAPER PLATES and NAPKINS printed with the flag.

How fucking disrespectful can they get?



A point to note........

Was it Nixon who made a speech which began with..." my fellow 'mericans"?....if that happened in England we'd laugh our cocks off....because there isn't any 'fellow Englishmen'...there's no English dream....there's no oath of allegiance....we don't have a national anthem about our country.........

In the United States, you have towns and cities that look very similar....in England, we have towns and cities that are very different......local identity is everything here.......I'd say you're far more 'communist' in spirit than you'd like to believe.......

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 12:59:47 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I for one might go in for a bit more communism.
 
In general, I feel that a bit too much gets made of the hyper-nationalism of Americans. Sure, we get excited about our holidays ... that kind of happens around here when they give you a paid day off.
 
We tend to shout U.S.A. at sporting events ...it's catchy and easy to keep up with when you are drunk ... you know it really is hard to chant "Bosnia and Herzegowina" ten times real fast, after you have had a few.
 
By the way, I was fortunate enough to spend two weeks in the UK not long ago ... my third trip to your beautiful home. Got to visit a lot of castles and party in some very cool clubs. You must live in a different part of the UK ... I saw Union Jacks, English flags and Irish banners, all fucking over the place.
 
Peace ... cc

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I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 1:06:24 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

You must live in a different part of the UK ...



Northern and fuckin' proud.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 1:11:27 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

In the United States, you have towns and cities that look very similar....in England, we have towns and cities that are very different......


England is a model for diversity?  And the US is a homogenous sameness?   New Orleans, San Antonio, Asheville, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Chicago, Miami, Phoenix, Boston, "look very similar" ?


quote:

......local identity is everything here.......

For the purposes of 'paki bashing', or for soccer hooliganism?




quote:

Was it Nixon who made a speech which began with..." my fellow 'mericans"?....

Nixon said 'my fellow 'murricans' in 1968, instead of LBJ?

Or did you not know the difference between that famous drawl and Nixon's deliberately intoned 'my fellow Americans' 2 years later?

quote:

because there isn't any 'fellow Englishmen'...there's no English dream....there's no oath of allegiance....we don't have a national anthem about our country.........



Hey it isn't our fault that you are all property of the Queen, and that the UK anthem, dream, identity etc. is your's by acquiescent default.




(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 1:20:33 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		See, I like people that are proud of their home ... and have always thought it was a leap into oblivion to assume that pride equals approval.
 
Home is about familiarity. I loved my trip to your country, but got a sore throat ten minutes after the plane landed, and sneezed my way through ten boxes of tissue while I was there. My hair never totally dried and you still can't find a hotel with enough fucking towels. If you came to my home, you would think you were dinner because someone just put you in an oven, and would probably need ten bottles of lotion for your dry skin. Someone would serve you a Bud Light, as if you would ever drink such a thing.
 
We are proud of what we are used to ... nothing more, and nothing less.

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I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 1:21:06 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

England is a model for diversity?  And the US is a homogenous sameness?   New Orleans, San Antonio, Asheville, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Chicago, Miami, Phoenix, Boston, "look very similar" ?



It's a vast country so there will be difference.

In England, you can walk 5 miles down the road and the people will speak with a completely different accent.....can the same be said for the US?....as said, local identity is everything here.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

For the purposes of 'paki bashing', or for soccer hooliganism?



You shouldn't believe everything you read as most football hooligan gangs in England have black and asian lads running around with them.....


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Or did you not know the difference between that famous drawl and Nixon's deliberately intoned 'my fellow Americans' 2 years later?



The point stands....."my fellow countrymen" would be pure comedy here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Hey it isn't our fault that you are all property of the Queen, and that the UK anthem, dream, identity etc. is your's by acquiescent default.



Sit yourself down, son, and I'll tell you all about it.........it ain't what you think.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Want bullshit ? Do not read this - 7/4/2008 1:23:24 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber


Take a look at your car... was it built in America?
Yes it was
Was it at least built by a company that keeps a majority of it's manufacturing here in this country?
If your refering to Ford, GM or Chyrsler then no

How about that TV set? Or that computer your using to read this? Where and by whom were they built? Did the wealth you spent on them stay here in the US, to feed and clothe American workers?
My brother in law builds computers and he's american. Now we just need to teach him how to build big screens and life will be good.

Did you vote for the pissant in office right now?
Yea I voter for her, hate to admit that. Oh wait, you weren't talking about Janet, where you?
 
Were you actually fooled by his "I'm going to run this country like a business" bullshit?
I don't remember him saying that, but then again, I am not obsessed with the man like you are. Have you sought help for the yet?

Did you throw in with the assholes who pulled that whole "Freedom Fries" crap, when France was trying to just warn us off from the looming quagmire?
I really didn't think the girl at the Burger King drive thru would care, so no, I did not.

Did you actually go out and buy plastic sheeting and duct tape?
Have you bought a new foil hat yet?
 
Just going to clip the rest, getting bored now, and it's just more of the same ole' same ole'





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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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