RE: a question about manners (Full Version)

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simpleplan2 -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 10:37:32 AM)

I think Nika is spot on with her answer.  If all he is going to do is bitch without attempting to do something about it, what's going to happen when YOU do something he doesn't like?  Screw that...life is way too short. 




DiurnalVampire -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 10:39:27 AM)

I think this is the makings of a very bad communication trend. He could have done things to fix hissituation, but instead prefered to complain. People like that will whine about anything that doesnt go their way specifically,and then make you crazy after a while listning to it. I tend to shy away from them, becasue it doesnt get better.

DV




RedMagic1 -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 10:42:17 AM)

Does he take himself seriously?  Not in the "I'm-God's-gift" way, but in the personal accountability way?

That seems like a bigger deal to me than a bad communication habit.  Habits can be changed -- but only if the person takes himself seriously enough to accept responsibility for imperfections.




MySweetSubmssive -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 10:43:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hissweetbella
That's when he kind of laughed, said I take things too seriously, and changed the subject. 


Which I would read as, "You just called me on my shit and I don't like it."

Mss




Maxwell67 -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 10:48:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: simpleplan2

I think Nika is spot on with her answer.  If all he is going to do is bitch without attempting to do something about it, what's going to happen when YOU do something he doesn't like?  Screw that...life is way too short. 


Gotta agree here.. and this post is making me re-examine an eariler statement I made. Perhaps passive-agressive behavior SHOULD be a disqualifier from being dominant and for this very reason.  If you do something he does not like and he does not take whatever action should be taken to deal with at so that you can move on but instead just complains about it, that certainly does not sound like dominant behavior to me.  I suppose it dependes on just how passive-aggressive he is.  At it's extreme end passive-aggression is often termed 'slave mentality' (not to be confused with anything having to do with slave as they are known in BDSM circles).  And it is most definately NOT a quality you want to find in a person that calls themselves dominant.




BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 10:49:42 AM)

I have a brother-in-law who has a dominant personality.  He gets frustrated and impatient when he can't control his environment or those around him (his wife/kids), and will sometimes display rude or tempermental behavior because of his frustrations and impatience.  He is the nicest person and will help anyone, but lord, he can embarass you with his grumpiness and temper sometimes.

People can display bad behavior for a variety of reasons, including some sort of sense of entitlement. 

Maybe you should proceed cautiously and see what happens in the future, but I personally would not be able to handle being in a relationship with someone who is that impatient with those around him, and won't own his poor behavior.




AAkasha -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 10:50:48 AM)



I'd be concerned about his behavior, but also be concerned about yours.

As for him, he sounds like a negative person.  Watch his behavior in the future and see if he tends to bitch and complain about anything and everything.  There are some people that simply enjoy complaining and being mad and having a reason to be irritated - they complain about traffic, about poor service (but don't take steps to change things), and about their own health.  They are the kind of people  you listen to complain and you offer them suggestions to improve, and they take no advice. Why? Because they enjoy being in a place or situation where they can bitch and complain.  If this is the way he is, get out of it.  Negative people are an emotional drain and a bummer to be around.   Another traits complains often have are being "victims" -- listen to see if he always talks about why things are unfair to him. Why didn't he get that raise?  Why can't he catch a break? Why did someone cut in front of him in line? Why did Joe get that last pack of gum? It's like - who the F cares? Stop whining and do something about your life.

As for your behavior, don't feel that you are the person that has to fix or be to blame for HIS issues.  That's not a submissive thing per se, it's a people thing; many of us tend to want to FIX things if other people around us are upset.  You can't fix everything, and more importantly, he'll just find something else to bitch about.  Do not listen to his bitching; rather, make one suggestion regarding a solution, then when he blows it off, change the subject if he continues to complain.

As for the "big talk" about this, my suggestion is to eventually tell him that you don't find negativity in any fashion to be something you want to surround yourself with.  Tell him you are more about solution and positive thinking and negativity - whether it's toward waitstaff, traffic, hotel rooms, whatever - is a waste of emotion.

Akasha




hissweetbella -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 10:50:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Does he take himself seriously?  Not in the "I'm-God's-gift" way, but in the personal accountability way?

That seems like a bigger deal to me than a bad communication habit.  Habits can be changed -- but only if the person takes himself seriously enough to accept responsibility for imperfections.



I'm really wondering about that.  Since this visit, I have been thinking back over everything he has told me, but I'm worried I'm looking at those conversations with jaded eyes right now.  He has said a few other things, too, here and there, but nothing that I felt required more than a "That wasn't a nice thing to say."  He would say he was sorry and didn't say anything like that again.




hissweetbella -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 10:54:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

I have a brother-in-law who has a dominant personality.  He gets frustrated and impatient when he can't control his environment or those around him (his wife/kids), and will sometimes display rude or tempermental behavior because of his frustrations and impatience.  He is the nicest person and will help anyone, but lord, he can embarass you with his grumpiness and temper sometimes.

People can display bad behavior for a variety of reasons, including some sort of sense of entitlement. 

Maybe you should proceed cautiously and see what happens in the future, but I personally would not be able to handle being in a relationship with someone who is that impatient with those around him, and won't own his poor behavior.


This Dom can be really nice and he will help anyone he can.  Like when he checked out of the hotel, he left a good tip for the housekeeper.  I just haven't figured him out yet.




CruelDesires -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 10:57:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hissweetbella

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Does he take himself seriously?  Not in the "I'm-God's-gift" way, but in the personal accountability way?

That seems like a bigger deal to me than a bad communication habit.  Habits can be changed -- but only if the person takes himself seriously enough to accept responsibility for imperfections.



I'm really wondering about that.  Since this visit, I have been thinking back over everything he has told me, but I'm worried I'm looking at those conversations with jaded eyes right now.  He has said a few other things, too, here and there, but nothing that I felt required more than a "That wasn't a nice thing to say."  He would say he was sorry and didn't say anything like that again.


You are seeing all the little red flags. Keep them in mind in the future.

Edited> because I screwed up the quote thing.

CD




MySweetSubmssive -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 10:59:07 AM)

Yes ... I was going to say, if this is a hit from your intuition, why not go with it?  Word.

Mss




hissweetbella -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 11:01:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha



I'd be concerned about his behavior, but also be concerned about yours.

As for him, he sounds like a negative person.  Watch his behavior in the future and see if he tends to bitch and complain about anything and everything.  There are some people that simply enjoy complaining and being mad and having a reason to be irritated - they complain about traffic, about poor service (but don't take steps to change things), and about their own health.  They are the kind of people  you listen to complain and you offer them suggestions to improve, and they take no advice. Why? Because they enjoy being in a place or situation where they can bitch and complain.  If this is the way he is, get out of it.  Negative people are an emotional drain and a bummer to be around.   Another traits complains often have are being "victims" -- listen to see if he always talks about why things are unfair to him. Why didn't he get that raise?  Why can't he catch a break? Why did someone cut in front of him in line? Why did Joe get that last pack of gum? It's like - who the F cares? Stop whining and do something about your life.

As for your behavior, don't feel that you are the person that has to fix or be to blame for HIS issues.  That's not a submissive thing per se, it's a people thing; many of us tend to want to FIX things if other people around us are upset.  You can't fix everything, and more importantly, he'll just find something else to bitch about.  Do not listen to his bitching; rather, make one suggestion regarding a solution, then when he blows it off, change the subject if he continues to complain.

As for the "big talk" about this, my suggestion is to eventually tell him that you don't find negativity in any fashion to be something you want to surround yourself with.  Tell him you are more about solution and positive thinking and negativity - whether it's toward waitstaff, traffic, hotel rooms, whatever - is a waste of emotion.

Akasha



Thank you.  I do need to stop letting this make me feel badly.  The choices of restaurants was limited by him chooing to take so long in deciding to go out.  I took him somewhere where I know the people are friendly and the food is good.  So what if we had to wait a little longer?  And the room... I offered to go to the front desk for him but he said no.  I did what I could to make the situation better.  He absolutely chose to be unhappy, and that is not my fault.




MrSpectacular -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 11:11:38 AM)

To the OP - don't you see the great irony in this - you are complaining about him complaining - you are complaining about him being late for dinner then he complains about not great service. Sounds like you have the perfect relationship.
I personally think you should thank god - you actually got a very quick insight into a person - now my guess is this guy spends his life complaining so you rchoice is to understand and accept that about him or consider it not a worthwhile relationship - I don't think you can try to change him nor should you try.

Sincerely,

Mr S




Maxwell67 -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 11:20:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrSpectacular
I don't think you can try to change him nor should you try.


Agreed.  That trick never works.  Too often in even the vanilla relationships I see this "I can fix him." mentality in women (not so much with men).  It cannot be done..  Well perhaps if your positions were reversed.  If he were a sub, maybe you could train him out of it, but even then I would be wary about that sort of thinking.  The best course of action is to accept people for who they are, warts and all, so to speak.  And if you can't, then get out now.




Wildfleurs -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 11:21:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hissweetbella

Situation:  Dom wants to come visit his sub.  He has sub search for a hotel in her area which meets his specific requirements.  Sub calls around and finds three which meet his needs.  Dom chooses one, but upon checking in finds the non-smoking room filled with the smell of cigarette smoke.  Instead of changing rooms or hotels, he chooses to stay.  He complains to sub several times during the visit and multiple times afterward about the smell.

During the same visit, Dom wants to go out to dinner, but doesn't get ready until after 10pm.  Sub lives in a town that basically shuts down at 10pm, but suggests a nice little restaurant/bar that she has enjoyed many times.  Unfortunately, they are busy that night and a bit short staffed.  The waitress brought a pitcher of their beverage so they wouldn't have to wait for refills, but it took a little while to get their food.  The server apologized many times about the wait and was otherwise smiling and doing her best to take care of everyone.  Dom complained about the service and said he was sure he could have found some place nicer.

Now, I'm not sure if it was just the way I was raised, but I would never complain to someone I had come to visit like this.  If I found the problem with the room, I would have handled it with the front desk or changed hotels but would have done my best not to make the person I was visiting feel badly about it.  

Is it just a Dom thing to act this way or is it just that I am meeting one who use the title of Dom to cover their bad manners? 




He sounds a little bit whiny but here's something to consider from the other side.

It sounds like you were tasked with finding the hotel room and restaurant. There were slight (I don't know if he's an asthmatic or has medical conditions that are exacerbated by smoke) problems with the logistics you handled and he complained about it. Unless you were also paying for the room and restaurant I don't see anything wrong with him bringing up the problems that he had with it. I think again its a function of how much he was complaining, how much you are interested in listening to the complaining or adjusting based on it, and how sensitive you are to any criticism. I disagree with posters that said it was passive aggressive, there is nothing passive about making your problems with someone's handling of the logistics clear.

This early in a relationship if its too much for you, you might as well cut your losses.

C~




RedMagic1 -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 11:24:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67
I see this "I can fix him." mentality in women (not so much with men).

It manifests differently.  White-knight-ism.  Same underlying effect: "Don't you worry about taking responsibility for anything about yourself, precious damsel.  I'll shoulder all the burdens."

Codependence -- when two people help each other avoid personal responsibility.




aBondageTop -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 11:35:37 AM)

DTMFA




Level -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 11:40:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hissweetbella

Situation:  Dom wants to come visit his sub.  He has sub search for a hotel in her area which meets his specific requirements.  Sub calls around and finds three which meet his needs.  Dom chooses one, but upon checking in finds the non-smoking room filled with the smell of cigarette smoke.  Instead of changing rooms or hotels, he chooses to stay.  He complains to sub several times during the visit and multiple times afterward about the smell.

During the same visit, Dom wants to go out to dinner, but doesn't get ready until after 10pm.  Sub lives in a town that basically shuts down at 10pm, but suggests a nice little restaurant/bar that she has enjoyed many times.  Unfortunately, they are busy that night and a bit short staffed.  The waitress brought a pitcher of their beverage so they wouldn't have to wait for refills, but it took a little while to get their food.  The server apologized many times about the wait and was otherwise smiling and doing her best to take care of everyone.  Dom complained about the service and said he was sure he could have found some place nicer.

Now, I'm not sure if it was just the way I was raised, but I would never complain to someone I had come to visit like this.  If I found the problem with the room, I would have handled it with the front desk or changed hotels but would have done my best not to make the person I was visiting feel badly about it.  

Is it just a Dom thing to act this way or is it just that I am meeting one who use the title of Dom to cover their bad manners? 




He kinda sounds like a doofus.




Level -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 11:42:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

I think again its a function of how much he was complaining
C~


Yes. Making mention, or discussing something, is one thing, but whining.....
 
quote:

He complains to sub several times




NeedingMore220 -> RE: a question about manners (7/5/2008 11:51:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hissweetbella

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetNika

Have you spoken to him about the things that bothered you?


I did.  He says I take things too seriously.



Oops.  Not a good response.




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