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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So it matters not the quality of the oppresive regime that he opposed.I do not intend to enter into a debate with You on the relative merits of Mandela or the sytem that arrested,tried ,convicted and sentenced him though there is a multitude of points I migt argue with You.The fact is calling Mandela a ciminal without at least qualifying the statement somewhat with an equal charactisation of the South African Goverment as criminal oppressors of his race is diseingenious at best outright racism at worst

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ORIGINAL: DomAviator

YOURE KIDDING RIGHT? How many govt buildings did MLK blow up or burn down? Mandela admits to 221. We executed Timothy McVeigh for ONE, how many does Mandela get before he us diminished in your eyes?

How many people did MLK murder by immolation using a gasoline filled tire around there neck?

How many black villages did MLK massacre and burn down if they didnt want to register to vote??

How many white owned farms did MLK send his followers into so as to rape and murder the women in front of their families, and to then amputate one of the childrens limbs in front of the men before murdering them and burning the farm??? Hmmmmm MLK do any of that? Didnt think so but Mandela sure as hell did....

So where is this "character" of Mandela's? Was it because he was kind and benevolent enough to let the dying father pick between his childs arm or foot?

You sure have an odd way to pick heros Owner, and I the person who is supposedly the bigot, find it pretty disgusting that you compare MLK to Mandela. One was a preacher who led his people through non violent protest, while the other was Satan incarnate. As for propoganda - did any of your family die at the hands of the ANC??? My moms brother, an uncle I never got to meet, was necklaced. Thats propoganda??? Tell me then Owner, WHO KILLED HIM - SANTA CLAUS????

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ORIGINAL: DomAviator

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So it matters not the quality of the oppresive regime that he opposed.I do not intend to enter into a debate with You on the relative merits of Mandela or the sytem that arrested,tried ,convicted and sentenced him though there is a multitude of points I migt argue with You.The fact is calling Mandela a ciminal without at least qualifying the statement somewhat with an equal charactisation of the South African Goverment as criminal oppressors of his race is diseingenious at best outright racism at worst

No it does not matter one bit. You do not "oppose a regieme" by bombings, arsons, immolations, systematic gang rape, murder, amputations, and the other tools that Mandela used in his grab for power.

If he was fighting the oppressors of his race, WHY did the ANC slaughter THOUSANDS of  blacks? Nelson Mandela was about power for Nelson Mandela - nothing more. Otherwise he wouldnt terrorize and kill ALL who opposed him, white OR black.

Being black does not grant him a license to run amuck slaughtering all who dared not follow him - again regardless of whether they were white or black. Ironically, when Apartheid ended MANDELA WAS IN PRISON, he didnt liberate shit. The system ended despite him not because of him....

Learn something about the motherfucker before you defend him.... 

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

As for your uncle,may he rest in peace,did he not support and benifit from that white-ruled society,was he not aware that at some point the "natives might get restless".When one oppresses to the degree that White Afrikaners did one might expect a little backlash don't you think.

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ORIGINAL: DomAviator

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

As for your uncle,may he rest in peace,did he not support and benifit from that white-ruled society,was he not aware that at some point the "natives might get restless".When one oppresses to the degree that White Afrikaners did one might expect a little backlash don't you think.

He was, I am told as I never got to meet him, a mild mannered soft spoken somewhat nerdy naval architect who owned a little house in a Cape Town suburb. He kissed his wife and kids and went to his office at the shipyard everyday where he did mathematical calculations and made drawings of merchant ships. He oppressed nobody and was not involved in politics. His only affront to the ANC was to be a white man when they wanted to get their hands on one.

So using your logic - the black man who was dragged to death in Jasper deserved it because he should have known that in the piney woods of Texas, the "natives might get restless"? I just want to clarify that you think its ok to grab someone, beat them, and hang a gasoline filled tire around their neck and set them on fire in a residential neigborhood - so long as you feel that you are oppressed?

Now, a question comes to mind. Yes, the apartheid regieme could be brutal... HOWEVER, do you think that MAYBE some of that brutality was because the police and south african defense forces were sick of dealing with the terrorist organizations little stunts? Maybe the cops had seen just one too many necklaced person? One too many little kids with a limb amputated? One too many villages or farms littered with bodies.... Ya think that maybe after one too many police stations or courts were bombed and they ran out into the street to see the corpses the cops, army, and general public just maybe said Genoeg! Nou hierdie kak haus krieke gaan ly vir hul sondes!!!! Hmmm? Ya think maybe that Mandelas violence WORSENED rather than improved things for his people?

Remember this mike, Apartheid literally meant "Apart" it was SEGREGATION - just like we had here in the 1960's. It wasn't genocide. It wasnt even slavery.  It didnt become brutal until AFTER Mandela's ANC committed outrages so bad that the general public wanted genocide for their own safety! We in America managed to end our segregation, probably because we didnt have  farm to farm rape murder sprees that would sicken manson himself, necklacing, bombings and arson and a general reign of terror.  

Dont ever bitch again about anythng we do in Gitmo if you think Mandela was right. Dont whine about Bin Laden either... Neither comes close to the ANC on a good day...

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

DA this is too much even for Your usual low standards.First off never said it was alright that Your mild mannered non political uncle was murdered.But comparing that act to some rednecks having a good old time in Jasper Texas is a little much for even You.Can You not see the difference here the fact that  minority oppression will invariably lead to  backlash on the once ruling class and yes some mild mannered non political types might meet ghastley fates.
     If Your beef is with the political leanings of ANC ,You can lay that at the door of Your White Supremicts South Afrikan Goverment too,oppressed people sometimes embrace bankrupt political philosophies in an attempt to redress the wrongs done them...Now You defend the benign nature of apartheid and claim it didn't get butal until after the ANC committed heinous acts to remove the yolk of oppression...DA news flash not all oppressed people have a Gandi to lead them some draw the sword ..and consequently violence occurs
     Don't You feel just a little silly defending a dead system ,a system so bankrupt the rest of the civilized world rejected it 40 something years ago....An earlier poster was right yours is definitly an overt brand of racism....seems you were born about 60 years late my friend

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ORIGINAL: DomAviator

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Just wondering if the characterisation of Mandela as a criminal rather than a freedom fighter/revolutionary ,hell a terrorist even, is a covert or overt support of apartheid

It is neither. It is a factual statement about a piece of subhuman filth that orchestrated a campaign of terror across the countryside, and who by his own admission was responsible for 221 bombing and arson attacks on govt facilities.

People who are arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced to life in prison are, by definition, "criminals".

Despite the way revisionist history now views him, the man was a monster! He and his piece of crap wife led the ANC on a crusade across the countryside in an orchestrated campaign of rape looting murder and arson.

Before singing Mandelas praises and as others have done, branding those who loathe the beast "a bigot" do a little research and find out what he actually did. Find out what "Necklacing" is... (Hint, it involves murdering people with a burning car tire) Find out what happened on rural farms, particularly to the women and children when the ANC came calling - just dont do it before lunch... Mandela was far worse than Osama Bin Laden ever dreamt of being and he sure as hell racked up a higher body count, including entire tribes of blacks who were slaughtered if they didnt join his litle club...

Sure the piece of crap got a Nobel Peace Prize, so did Yassar Arafat...  I supose anyone who says Arafat was a terrorist and criminal is also a bigot?