Is your power exchange instrumental ? (Full Version)

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dvart -> Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 8:07:16 AM)

For me in art as in life, it is not so much about what happens (process), but more a question of what the image or event DOES (how is it instrumental).

If you partner does nasty things to you is it simply to be nasty (simply to give one or both of you pleasure) or does the nastiness cause something else to happen ?

Some of the people in collarme just seem to be concerned with process/pleasure.

For example a Domme might get a sense of power from the humiliation of a sub and the sub might get a kind of relief from being treated like a piece of dirt. Such relations don't seem to be instrumental to anything else (I can't be sure because I haven't personal experience of such a situation).

Let me declare my own position, my own dominance is mostly instrumental to something else. Ok it excites me, I concede that but at least important is to create a situation where we can get closer than would be possible in the vanilla world. I feel empowered by my dominance and it makes me feel safer to open up.

Is you power exchange instrumental in taking you places that nothing else would ?

How is it for you ?




MadRabbit -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 8:28:10 AM)

The actions I use to express my dominance serve as a gateway to a wide variety of emotions that I could not experience with a "vanilla" partner who did not express her submission to me. The written language is analytical and doesn't do much justice in attempting to communicate what exactly these emotions are, so I am not gonna even try. It also serves as a gateway to intimacy and closeness when the right connection is present.




Maxwell67 -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 8:34:54 AM)

Dominance fills a need for me.  The need not just to be in control, but to be trusted with that control.  When she submits to me it is proof that she has faith in me, that wherever I take her will ultimately prove to be worth whatever I put her through to get there.  Since the places I want to take her are often dark, and scary, I need to feel that faith and trust that I will not ever take her to a place she cannot handle.  What do I get from having this need filled?  A feeling of extreme intimacy with her, a sense of accomplishment, and a sort of vicarious catharsis, mostly.  Also, erotic thrills, aesthetic satisfaction and a deep and abiding hunger for more of the same.




sub4hire -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 8:35:38 AM)

I don't really know if ours would.  I've never had a "good" relationship where power exchange wasn't a vital component.

Although that could be why I never had what I consider a good relationship as well.
Perhaps it helped us to grow closer? 

My partner does not say nasty things to me on any level.  He does however tell me what to do.  In a positive way.
The lifestyle is probably somewhere close to 80% mental for us.  So, yes it does play an integral componenet.
Yet, there is nothing better than good old fashioned bondage either.

Everything we do in life feeds us in some way.  Even if just coping with a vanilla situation.  Do we get something out of it?  Sure.  Otherwise we would not do it. 
Helping a friend, we get our own satisfaction out of it.  It goes on and on.




MadRabbit -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 8:39:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67
The need not just to be in control, but to be trusted with that control.  When she submits to me it is proof that she has faith in me, that wherever I take her will ultimately prove to be worth whatever I put her through to get there.


I can relate to that. A good part of the emotional experience for me is not anything sexual or any feelings of powerful, but rather the humbling experience of being trusted and respected enough to be given authority over them. The poignancy of that experience alone inspires me to strive to be a better person. 




TreasureKY -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 8:42:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

Some of the people in collarme just seem to be concerned with process/pleasure.



Some people consider the pleasure to be the point.  One can do and achieve many things in life... but if no pleasure/happiness/benefit/contentment is gained from the activity, why bother?  For some, participation in power exchange is instrumental in achieving their goal.  For some, power exchange is the goal.

Then there are some of us who don't buy into "power exchange"... we transfer authority.  [;)]





cantilena -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 8:43:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

For me in art as in life, it is not so much about what happens (process), but more a question of what the image or event DOES (how is it instrumental).

If you partner does nasty things to you is it simply to be nasty (simply to give one or both of you pleasure) or does the nastiness cause something else to happen ?

Some of the people in collarme just seem to be concerned with process/pleasure.

For example a Domme might get a sense of power from the humiliation of a sub and the sub might get a kind of relief from being treated like a piece of dirt. Such relations don't seem to be instrumental to anything else (I can't be sure because I haven't personal experience of such a situation).

Let me declare my own position, my own dominance is mostly instrumental to something else. Ok it excites me, I concede that but at least important is to create a situation where we can get closer than would be possible in the vanilla world. I feel empowered by my dominance and it makes me feel safer to open up.

Is you power exchange instrumental in taking you places that nothing else would ?

How is it for you ?



Yes, one outcome, or result if you will, of power exchange for me is greatly enhanced intimacy.  When I think about it, another result is substantially improved communication with my partner. 

On the other hand, I admit the initial purpose of many things we do together is for the immediate pleasure of engaging in that activity together.  That fact isn't a problem for us; yet the possibility for growth in motiviation is always there.





MadRabbit -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 8:46:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

Some of the people in collarme just seem to be concerned with process/pleasure.



Some people consider the pleasure to be the point.  One can do and achieve many things in life... but if no pleasure/happiness/benefit/contentment is gained from the activity, why bother?  For some, participation in power exchange is instrumental in achieving their goal.  For some, power exchange is the goal.

Then there are some of us who don't buy into "power exchange"... we transfer authority.  [;)]


I'm still trying to figure out the difference after two years now besides the theoretical [:D].

But I did notice that part of his post.

As usual, it seems that nobody can talk about their personal metaphysical experiences without taking a big huge flaming shit on everyone else's.




TreasureKY -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 8:56:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I'm still trying to figure out the difference after two years now besides the theoretical [:D].

But I did notice that part of his post.

As usual, it seems that nobody can talk about their personal metaphysical experiences without taking a big huge flaming shit on everyone else's.


It is theoretical.

Unless you've discovered some way to scientifically observe and measure a physcial exchange of power.  [:D]

Discussing one's personal opinions and beliefs will always run the risk of offending others... but I don't get offended when other people's ideas don't agree with my own.   The world would be a very dull place if everyone felt and believed the same things.  [;)]




MadRabbit -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 8:59:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Discussing one's personal opinions and beliefs will always run the risk of offending others... but I don't get offended when other people's ideas don't agree with my own.   The world would be a very dull place if everyone felt and believed the same things.  [;)]



I wasn't referring to you with the last part of my post. The OP's quote that was in question was very condescending.




DominantJenny -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 10:29:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

but at least important is to create a situation where we can get closer than would be possible in the vanilla world. I feel empowered by my dominance and it makes me feel safer to open up.

Is you power exchange instrumental in taking you places that nothing else would ?

How is it for you ?


I assume you mean "for you" here; I think it is the height of foolishness to suggest that, generally, it is not possible to get equally close to someone in a vanilla relationship as a BDSM one. The methods may be different, but the result can very much be the same.
In my case, I don't need BDSM as a relationship aid; I am (and was) perfectly able to feel safe opening up to my partner, period. Our intimacy has not increased, except to the degree that I shared this part of myself with him and he with me. If this part did not exist, it would be moot.
I am dominant person; it's a fundamental part of who I am. I can't be in a relationship without that becoming apparent, vanilla or kinked.
I am a sadist; it is part of my sexuality, and my sex life without it is rather like being gay in a straight relationship, which is clearly not to the good, so I won't be doing that again.

Have I answered the question?




dvart -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 11:07:52 AM)

quote:

Have I answered the question?
quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

Yes, in a very interesting way, thank you.

Thanks for all the other responses, I'll respond again a bit later.





SimplyMichael -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 11:19:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

For me in art as in life, it is not so much about what happens (process), but more a question of what the image or event DOES (how is it instrumental).

If you partner does nasty things to you is it simply to be nasty (simply to give one or both of you pleasure) or does the nastiness cause something else to happen ?

Some of the people in collarme just seem to be concerned with process/pleasure.

For example a Domme might get a sense of power from the humiliation of a sub and the sub might get a kind of relief from being treated like a piece of dirt. Such relations don't seem to be instrumental to anything else (I can't be sure because I haven't personal experience of such a situation).

Let me declare my own position, my own dominance is mostly instrumental to something else. Ok it excites me, I concede that but at least important is to create a situation where we can get closer than would be possible in the vanilla world. I feel empowered by my dominance and it makes me feel safer to open up.

Is you power exchange instrumental in taking you places that nothing else would ?

How is it for you ?



If all you want is just instrumental I guess that is okay.  I won't settle for so little and so I ensure my my dominance is pivotal!




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 11:38:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

Is you power exchange instrumental in taking you places that nothing else would ?

How is it for you ?



For me, it's not so much that it is -taking- me anywhere, though it certainly has taken me places... it's more that it allows me to be completely and genuinely who I am. It enables me to have relationships that make no apologies for the person that I am, for the ways that I behave, for the things I enjoy. It opens up the possibility of experiencing my life among people who also live their lives unapologetically.

As an example, my primary, with whom I've spent the last 10 years, as a servant in a collar that she shared, and then as her protege earning my crop, and finally as her companion and equal, sharing dominion in our home, often asks me, when she has had a bad day, how I can love her when she is such a demanding, cranky, miserable person. My response is always that I do not love her despite her crankiness and demanding nature, but fully embracing those things as part of her living, natural self... her expression of being in this perceived reality-- stripped of these characteristics against her will (or forced to refrain from displaying them), she would not be SR, the woman I have come to know and cherish. 

BDSM does not make me something else, and does not serve to limit the definition of who I am, but through this community, I have found others with whom I am able to present my full, unmasked face -- and without caring whether that face draws them into my orbit or scares them into another galaxy.

Calla Firstorm




Mercnbeth -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 11:54:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

Some of the people in collarme just seem to be concerned with process/pleasure.

For example a Domme might get a sense of power from the humiliation of a sub and the sub might get a kind of relief from being treated like a piece of dirt. Such relations don't seem to be instrumental to anything else (I can't be sure because I haven't personal experience of such a situation).

Let me declare my own position, my own dominance is mostly instrumental to something else. Ok it excites me, I concede that but at least important is to create a situation where we can get closer than would be possible in the vanilla world. I feel empowered by my dominance and it makes me feel safer to open up.

Is you power exchange instrumental in taking you places that nothing else would ?

How is it for you ?

Why does it matter to you, and what difference would it make?
You've already provided insight of your perspective; "...the sub might get a kind of relief from being treated like a piece of dirt." Realty is, the 'sub' could be thinking they are being treated like a king.

Anytime you observe one facet of any dynamic the you don't understand you should keep this poem in mind:
John Godfrey Saxe's ( 1816-1887) version of the famous Indian legend
 
It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he,
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

MORAL.
So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!




leadership527 -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 2:51:10 PM)

to OP:
For me, power exchange is a means to an end, not the end in and of itself.  I have no particular need to Dom and my wife has no particular need to sub.  It turns out that those roles work for us in our relationship and end up making our love affair better which would be the "end" for us.   Now, obviously in all of that, there's still the immediate gratification pleasure type moments, but from your description, we're a lot like you.




TwoDommeDivas -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 3:08:43 PM)

Paradoxically, perhaps, my dominance is substantially about service to my sub.  Hir needs, hir satisfaction, hir enjoyment are of import to me.  It is a responsibility that gives me joy when I meet it well.  Such is the gymnastic nature of being a dominant people-pleaser.  And my compensation for good work is both the joy in connecting with my sub and the comfort of feeling that this tiny corner of the universe, at least, is under MY control.

Dana




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 3:49:47 PM)

Both- but it all ultimately serves to make me fulfilled in who I am.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 3:53:12 PM)

quote:

Is you power exchange instrumental in taking you places that nothing else would ?

How is it for you ?

It is who I am.  I rule my house because that is how I am.  I lead.  I do not follow.

It is no more than this.




ProtagonistLily -> RE: Is your power exchange instrumental ? (7/8/2008 6:10:21 PM)

quote:

For me in art as in life, it is not so much about what happens (process), but more a question of what the image or event DOES (how is it instrumental).

Ahh, let's wax philosophic... I think there are 2 kinds of people in the world - Process people and Product people. I'm a process people, regardless of whether I actually like a process' outcome, I'm always very interested in discussing how someone got from idea TO fruition, regardless of whether I have positive or negative feelings about the product of the process.

quote:

If you partner does nasty things to you is it simply to be nasty (simply to give one or both of you pleasure) or does the nastiness cause something else to happen ?

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Sorry.

quote:

Some of the people in collarme just seem to be concerned with process/pleasure.

Yes, I'd agree. Mom said it takes all kinds.

quote:

For example a Domme might get a sense of power from the humiliation of a sub and the sub might get a kind of relief from being treated like a piece of dirt. Such relations don't seem to be instrumental to anything else (I can't be sure because I haven't personal experience of such a situation).

And, it just might turn them both on - is that a bad thing? Is being turned on for it's own sake antithetical to BDSM as a whole?

quote:

Let me declare my own position, my own dominance is mostly instrumental to something else.
I think we were fairly clear on where you stood, but thanks for clearing it up.
quote:

Yes Ok it excites me, I concede that but at least important is to create a situation where we can get closer than would be possible in the vanilla world.
Why would what we do bring us closer than 'nillas? You appear to think that there's something superior about WIIWD as compared to vanilla - smacks of that "Chosen People" argument that I've always found so rediculous.

quote:

I feel empowered by my dominance and it makes me feel safer to open up.

I can totally understand this from a communication standpoint; like seeks like. But again, I don't necessarily think that makes you better than 'nilla folks - just differant.

quote:

Is you power exchange instrumental in taking you places that nothing else would ?

Yes, absolutely. Trying to have nilla relationships always felt square peg/round hole. Once I understood what was missing, which for me was the power exchange element, manifested both in S&M, and/or D/s-M/s relationships (note: for me, when I was single and uncollared, I could "play" (S&M) with people and not be in a D/s or M/s relationship with them and enjoy both their company and scenes with them just fine; Sir and I choose not to play outside the relationship and it contains both S&M and D/s-M/s aspects) I was able to persue the sandbox I belonged in. I had ideas, notions that I would share with nilla men that they either couldn't relate to or had no frame of reference for. Once I started seeking out my local BDSM group and met like minded folks, those notions weren't foreign to those folks at all. I was home.

PL




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