Submission~ Your right or a gift?

Submission~ Your right or a gift? (Full Version)

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OTKkindaGirl -> Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 8:33:15 PM)
i cannot claim to be all that new to the lifestyle but still there are things that i am having a difficult time discerning. as a submissive with slave tendencies, when i give of myself it is completely. this has caused various and sometimes strange reactions from the Doms that i have met in real time. i have been told that i am a good girl for being so receptive and eager to please. i have been told that i am truly a treasure and deserve only the best. i have been told that my feelings don't matter as long as i am being pleasing. i have also taken my fair share of misuse, and i have been called strange for accepting all the things above so easily and readily. i am thankful for each person that i have met because i have learned many things about myself but there is one thing that i don't quite understand. why is submission viewed as a right by some dominants and why is it view as a gift by others? my motives here are to get different viewpoints and hopefully gain a little more understanding on the value of submission from Dominants.

Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 8:40:50 PM)
I do not view submission as my right or as a gift. I view it as a mutually satisfying relationship. My dominance is important to a submissive who wants to be with me. Their submission is important to me. Together we balance one another.

Thadius -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 8:44:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OTKkindaGirl i cannot claim to be all that new to the lifestyle but still there are things that i am having a difficult time discerning. as a submissive with slave tendencies, when i give of myself it is completely. this has caused various and sometimes strange reactions from the Doms that i have met in real time. i have been told that i am a good girl for being so receptive and eager to please. i have been told that i am truly a treasure and deserve only the best. i have been told that my feelings don't matter as long as i am being pleasing. i have also taken my fair share of misuse, and i have been called strange for accepting all the things above so easily and readily. i am thankful for each person that i have met because i have learned many things about myself but there is one thing that i don't quite understand. why is submission viewed as a right by some dominants and why is it view as a gift by others? my motives here are to get different viewpoints and hopefully gain a little more understanding on the value of submission from Dominants. Greetings hope, When you "give" yourself completely to a Dom, is it because of an inner reaction to their dominance? What I mean, is it their charisma, character, presence, will, that is bringing that out in you? I have never heard of submission being viewed as a right, well at least not in these terms. I have heard of it being a right for a submissive/slave to choose whom they will submit to. I hope that makes sense, if not just ask, I don't mind clarifying. I guess my point is that you submitting and giving all of yourself in that submission, is just a reaction between you and the person that brings it out in you. On the other hand, if you are conciously having to make the decision to submit or act deferential, is it worth the same as that which is brought out in you naturally? I wish you well, Thadius

ownedgirlie -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 8:57:02 PM)
When I asked him to own me and be my Master, and when I promised my submission to him in every way I could, it then became his right to expect that submission from me. I did not offer or present him with the gift of me. I was drawn to him as a dominant man and wanted to give him all I could.

CalifChick -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 9:03:17 PM)
If anyone told me my feelings didn't matter as long as I was pleasing... I'd be pleasing myself by hotfooting it out the door. Cali

OTKkindaGirl -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 9:14:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Greetings hope, When you "give" yourself completely to a Dom, is it because of an inner reaction to their dominance? What I mean, is it their charisma, character, presence, will, that is bringing that out in you? I have never heard of submission being viewed as a right, well at least not in these terms. I have heard of it being a right for a submissive/slave to choose whom they will submit to. I hope that makes sense, if not just ask, I don't mind clarifying. I guess my point is that you submitting and giving all of yourself in that submission, is just a reaction between you and the person that brings it out in you. On the other hand, if you are conciously having to make the decision to submit or act deferential, is it worth the same as that which is brought out in you naturally? I wish you well, Thadius Greetings to you Thadius, All fair questions that you ask. i will answer them in order as best i can. 1. my submission is a natural thing for me and i don't find it difficult to want to serve, in fact i find it more difficult holding myself in check when in the presence of an obvious charismatic dominating personality. i have a very deep appreciation, hunger and need for dominance. 2. i have served somebody once, where it became difficult to be able to submit to them because they had lost my respect and trust, and yes, it puts a whole new spin on things when that happens. i had to really work through some of my own self doubts and my submissiveness to be strong enough, in order to get through that ordeal without it being detrimental not only to him but to the both of us.

Thadius -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 9:27:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OTKkindaGirl quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Greetings hope, When you "give" yourself completely to a Dom, is it because of an inner reaction to their dominance? What I mean, is it their charisma, character, presence, will, that is bringing that out in you? I have never heard of submission being viewed as a right, well at least not in these terms. I have heard of it being a right for a submissive/slave to choose whom they will submit to. I hope that makes sense, if not just ask, I don't mind clarifying. I guess my point is that you submitting and giving all of yourself in that submission, is just a reaction between you and the person that brings it out in you. On the other hand, if you are conciously having to make the decision to submit or act deferential, is it worth the same as that which is brought out in you naturally? I wish you well, Thadius Greetings to you Thadius, All fair questions that you ask. i will answer them in order as best i can. 1. my submission is a natural thing for me and i don't find it difficult to want to serve, in fact i find it more difficult holding myself in check when in the presence of an obvious charismatic dominating personality. i have a very deep appreciation, hunger and need for dominance. 2. i have served somebody once, where it became difficult to be able to submit to them because they had lost my respect and trust, and yes, it puts a whole new spin on things when that happens. i had to really work through some of my own self doubts and my submissiveness to be strong enough, in order to get through that ordeal without it being detrimental not only to him but to the both of us. Evening, So with your answers, would you consider filling a need in yourself by serving, to be a gift? I am not making light of it, I am actually pointing to the natural being that is you, in that you are doing what you would do naturally for a person that had earned your respect and trust. Being able to explore that side of yourself is an important thing. Being able to express it by serving and at the same time receive that which you need, crave and desire, is what makes the entire equation beautiful. Both being able to fill their needs and desires, is that not what we describe as a balanced and happy relationship? Does somebody in a vanilla relationship see being with the person they care about as giving their partner a gift? I think you know the answer deep inside you. I wish you well, Thadius

OTKkindaGirl -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 9:27:14 PM)
hugs Cali that is what i have learned to do!!! lol just sometimes it makes me question myself because i use to have that mindset. i use to have no self esteem or self worth. i've come a long way baby, through some good mentoring meeting wonderful Doms, and even reading good topics on the boards here, even if i am more of a lurker! from time to time i still come across the "do as i say" type and get really nervous about falling into an old bad pattern. so.... having dealt with something like that recently, i am in need of a little bit of affirmation on how real Dominants view submission instead of how the "wannabe twue dominants" would have me view it their way. yes, i still have my weak moments. like i said, i admire and love dominance.

OTKkindaGirl -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 9:37:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie When I asked him to own me and be my Master, and when I promised my submission to him in every way I could, it then became his right to expect that submission from me. I did not offer or present him with the gift of me. I was drawn to him as a dominant man and wanted to give him all I could. i understand and relate to this completely. you don't consider yourself a gift to him but you consider your submission to him as his right because you gave yourself completely. i totally get this. that is how i feel when i submit. How does he see it though? Have you asked him or has he ever made mention of it? Does it matter that i think you are a gift and a beautiful reflection of him? smile

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 9:58:42 PM)
Because some presume that orientation equals social status and some are mature people who know better :)

OTKkindaGirl -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 10:13:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Evening, So with your answers, would you consider filling a need in yourself by serving, to be a gift? I am not making light of it, I am actually pointing to the natural being that is you, in that you are doing what you would do naturally for a person that had earned your respect and trust. Being able to explore that side of yourself is an important thing. Being able to express it by serving and at the same time receive that which you need, crave and desire, is what makes the entire equation beautiful. Both being able to fill their needs and desires, is that not what we describe as a balanced and happy relationship? Does somebody in a vanilla relationship see being with the person they care about as giving their partner a gift? I think you know the answer deep inside you. I wish you well, Thadius i know what is natural within me isn't easy for a lot of people to do themselves and very few understand why i am capable of handling as much as i am capable of. my submission isn't what i am questioning at all, the balance of dominance and submission isn't what i am questioning at all and yes, i do know how beautiful it can be and also how difficult it is to hold onto when there is no value placed upon it and completely taken for granted. There is such a thing as imbalance in relationships. i believe that people in a vanilla relationship should in fact view their relationships as a gift. Vanilla or not, nobody is "entitled" to anything. If somebody is giving of themselves and getting desired benefits from it in return should it really just be looked at as something casual and as something "deserved" or "owed" to them? Seems a bit cynical don't you think? Maybe if more people placed a bit more value on what they have right under their nose, they wont be wondering how they lost it later down the road. i'm just saying. just because one person can be giving in a more natural way than somebody wired differently, doesn't make them any more or any less submissive than that person who works at it harder? Does it? hmmmm...... Here is a new spin just for you.... do i view Domination as a gift? Yes, i really do, anyone can be domineering but it takes somebody very special to be a Dominant in my opinion. grin and i mean no disrespect. be well and sweetness to you

Thadius -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 10:45:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OTKkindaGirl i know what is natural within me isn't easy for a lot of people to do themselves and very few understand why i am capable of handling as much as i am capable of. my submission isn't what i am questioning at all, the balance of dominance and submission isn't what i am questioning at all and yes, i do know how beautiful it can be and also how difficult it is to hold onto when there is no value placed upon it and completely taken for granted. There is such a thing as imbalance in relationships. i believe that people in a vanilla relationship should in fact view their relationships as a gift. Vanilla or not, nobody is "entitled" to anything. If somebody is giving of themselves and getting desired benefits from it in return should it really just be looked at as something casual and as something "deserved" or "owed" to them? Seems a bit cynical don't you think? Maybe if more people placed a bit more value on what they have right under their nose, they wont be wondering how they lost it later down the road. i'm just saying. just because one person can be giving in a more natural way than somebody wired differently, doesn't make them any more or any less submissive than that person who works at it harder? Does it? hmmmm...... Here is a new spin just for you.... do i view Domination as a gift? Yes, i really do, anyone can be domineering but it takes somebody very special to be a Dominant in my opinion. grin and i mean no disrespect. be well and sweetness to you The question of whether it is a gift or not is based on perspective, and is more or less a semantics issue. Actually, I look at my dominance or lack there of (the old bell curve thingy) to just be a natural part of who I am, no more and no less. It is in my opinion a subjective measure, based on who I am being compared to. I do agree about anybody being able to try and be domineering. I get great joy from my girl serving me in the capacity she does, and that joy and happiness might be considered a gift, but the submission itself is what it is. My relationship with her works because we are compatible on many levels. She gave herself to me, because of the submission that I brought forth in her. Just sharing my opinions and experiences, others will surely have their own thoughts on the issue. I wish you happiness, Thadius

ownedgirlie -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 10:58:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OTKkindaGirl quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie When I asked him to own me and be my Master, and when I promised my submission to him in every way I could, it then became his right to expect that submission from me. I did not offer or present him with the gift of me. I was drawn to him as a dominant man and wanted to give him all I could. i understand and relate to this completely. you don't consider yourself a gift to him but you consider your submission to him as his right because you gave yourself completely. i totally get this. that is how i feel when i submit. How does he see it though? Have you asked him or has he ever made mention of it? He doesn't see submission as a gift. He considers me his special pet who will do whatever he wants. He also believes it is his right to access me (mind, heart, body) whenever and however he wants. He considers me to be valuable, but not a gift. Unless it was a gift he gave himself, since it was his decision to own me. [8D] quote: Does it matter that i think you are a gift and a beautiful reflection of him? smile That was amazingly sweet. Thank you. [sm=flowers.gif]

MisterBeast -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 10:59:47 PM)
I think calling submission a gift is a bunch of nonsense, it put's the perverbial ball (or some times the literal) way too much in the submissives court. Instead why dont we look at what makes a dominant worth submitting to, it is going to be way more than S/slashy S/speak and all that nonsense, instead it is going to take being a deacent damn human being with morals and the ability to be a good leader. This is highly unrealistic though because it would require a great many people take a good hard look in the mirror and directly un-Foxtrot-Uniform-Charley-Kilo themselves!

Leatherist -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 11:11:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OTKkindaGirl i cannot claim to be all that new to the lifestyle but still there are things that i am having a difficult time discerning. as a submissive with slave tendencies, when i give of myself it is completely. this has caused various and sometimes strange reactions from the Doms that i have met in real time. i have been told that i am a good girl for being so receptive and eager to please. i have been told that i am truly a treasure and deserve only the best. i have been told that my feelings don't matter as long as i am being pleasing. i have also taken my fair share of misuse, and i have been called strange for accepting all the things above so easily and readily. i am thankful for each person that i have met because i have learned many things about myself but there is one thing that i don't quite understand. why is submission viewed as a right by some dominants and why is it view as a gift by others? my motives here are to get different viewpoints and hopefully gain a little more understanding on the value of submission from Dominants. My opinion? If you can be useful* without making a huge guilt trip over it all-that's a definite "gift".* [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

OTKkindaGirl -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 11:28:25 PM)
Wrong thread !!! I didn't call it "what makes a dominant worth submitting to" somehow this is how it read to me. "yeppers.... caint have a submissive havin' any power over decidin' which I/idget is the one fer her, no sir i tells it like it is cuz this 'ere thread wuz just chalked full of the afore mentioned S/slashy angry S/speak and all kines of folks thinkin they're all high n mighty and good gawd forbid.... special!" LA..... you hit it right on the head about the Maturity thing you stated earlier! [sm=Groaner.gif] gigglez

OTKkindaGirl -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 11:36:32 PM)
Leatherist, now what kind of submissive would i be if i manipulated with guilt trips and bragging???? i would say when pigs fly but i found this lil guy fluttering around. [sm=pigsfly.gif] so..... what color of ribbons do you like on your gift? gigglez and winx

MisterBeast -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/8/2008 11:59:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OTKkindaGirl Wrong thread !!! I didn't call it "what makes a dominant worth submitting to" somehow this is how it read to me. "yeppers.... caint have a submissive havin' any power over decidin' which I/idget is the one fer her, no sir i tells it like it is cuz this 'ere thread wuz just chalked full of the afore mentioned S/slashy angry S/speak and all kines of folks thinkin they're all high n mighty and good gawd forbid.... special!" LA..... you hit it right on the head about the Maturity thing you stated earlier! [sm=Groaner.gif] gigglez Wuuuud uuuuu likee to see mA Squirrel gun Tuuuu? Mabe lader we can go out Giggin frogs?

Maxwell67 -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/9/2008 12:01:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OTKkindaGirl "yeppers.... caint have a submissive havin' any power over decidin' which I/idget is the one fer her, no sir i tells it like it is cuz this 'ere thread wuz just chalked full of the afore mentioned S/slashy angry S/speak and all kines of folks thinkin they're all high n mighty and good gawd forbid.... special!" LA..... you hit it right on the head about the Maturity thing you stated earlier! [sm=Groaner.gif] gigglez I agree, but do remember this IS the "Ask a Master" forum you posted in, and if you wanted the opinions only of subs it might have been more helpful to post... well.. anywhere but here really. That being said, I went all mushy for a while over the 'gift of submission' thing. It's romantical and all, and I appreciate that, but really when you look at it you do not gift someone with your submission.. you submit. You can give your trust, your respect, your obediance, your loyalty, your devotion, and your love. But you cannot give submission, you can only submit.

MisterBeast -> RE: Submission~ Your right or a gift? (7/9/2008 12:03:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Maxwell67 quote: ORIGINAL: OTKkindaGirl "yeppers.... caint have a submissive havin' any power over decidin' which I/idget is the one fer her, no sir i tells it like it is cuz this 'ere thread wuz just chalked full of the afore mentioned S/slashy angry S/speak and all kines of folks thinkin they're all high n mighty and good gawd forbid.... special!" LA..... you hit it right on the head about the Maturity thing you stated earlier! [sm=Groaner.gif] gigglez I agree, but do remember this IS the "Ask a Master" forum you posted in, and if you wanted the opinions only of subs it might have been more helpful to post... well.. anywhere but here really. That being said, I went all mushy for a whil eover the 'gift of submission' thing. It's romantical and all, and I appreciate that, but really when you look at it you do not gift someone with your submission.. you submit. You can give your trust, your respect, your obediance, your loyalty, your devotion, and your love. But you cannot give submission, you can only submit. Oh my Gawd, this just turned into the Chicken-egg quandary!

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