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Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 11:17:52 AM   
MstrObjectmaker


Posts: 480
Status: offline 		As a foreigner in a very strange but pleasant land and recently having caused a dear friend some trouble relating to accident insurance claims whilst driving their car, I was wondering if someone could clear up a few questions for me.

#1. In the US does the insurance claim follow the driver at fault or the owner of the vehicle?

#2. Does anyone else have any experience as a foriegn driver involved in an accident?

#3. If so what happened regarding the insurance claims?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 11:26:07 AM   
TieNTeas


Posts: 101
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline 		It depends on the states laws.  Do you know what state the accident was in and where the owner of the car lives, if different?

(in reply to MstrObjectmaker)
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RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 11:27:55 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		It is different in every state, which can be frustrating. Try and get the information from her auto insurers web site is my suggestion.
(and I'm sorry to hear that you had trouble )


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RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 11:28:18 AM   
sappatoti


Posts: 14844
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: the edge of darkness...
Status: offline 		Iain, I let someone who had a driver's license but no vehicle insurance of their own drive my car. They got into an accident with it and that, combined with some other incidents I had quite a number of years ago, caused the rates I paid to go up in price. I don't think the other driver saw any problems as they never, to my knowledge, purchased a car themselves (thus had no need to purchase insurance).

Having said that, I do know that the person who had the accident driving my car did receive some moving violations points against their license. Those might have counted negatively towards that person should they have attempted to purchase insurance, as most insurance carriers will research a licensed driver's record to see if they have had moving violations.

The person that drove my car was a US citizen, so I have no knowledge how that may affect a foreign visitor's insurance policy, if they have one, in their home country. I would think that would depend upon whatever international agreements exist between the various insurance carriers around the world.

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RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 11:47:31 AM   
MstrObjectmaker


Posts: 480
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TieNTeas

It depends on the states laws.  Do you know what state the accident was in and where the owner of the car lives, if different?


The accident happened in the state of Florida and the car is Florida registered.

(in reply to TieNTeas)
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RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 11:54:29 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/insurancemenu.html

Who can I call for clarification? I am thoroughly confused about all these automobile insurance laws. I want to talk to someone who can help me understand. Who can I call? Call the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles, Customer Service Center, at (850) 617-2000.

You may want to call because from what I'm reading there are differing bundles of insurance coverages available in Florida including "uninsured motorist" protection.


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RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 11:59:08 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I don't know it all, but in the US liability is required and there is usually no deductable, many states prohibit it. Therefore if the other person is at fault, their insurance pays.

If you are at fault, whatever policy you got applies. There may be a deductable to fix YOUR car if you are at fault, but they pay to fix the other car, and of course raise your rates.

And actually foreign drivers should have an IDP, but that is overlooked most of the time.

Thing is, were you at fault ? If not you should have nothing to worry about, if at fault the situation is not grave, but it might require a bit of attention.

Also if the owner of the car was not driving it at the time, you might have to pay them at least the deductible, but in some jurisdictions there are policies that disallow those type of claims, basically because you do not own the vehicle. Nice little loophole for them.

Basically looking at US law on this subject, they do not want people to lend out cars.

T

(in reply to MstrObjectmaker)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 11:59:32 AM   
MissIsis


Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline 		Her insurance will probably increase for at the very least a period of 3 years. Sometimes insurance companies will wait till the policy renews to up the cost of the insurance.  Others do it right away or even cancel the insurance, causing the insured person to pay a small fortune just to get insured.  It can be double or more of what they were paying.

Please do the right thing & pay for the deductible, if there is one, & the added insurance costs she will have to foot, even if things don't work out between the two of you. 

(in reply to MstrObjectmaker)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 12:12:10 PM   
MstrObjectmaker


Posts: 480
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis

Her insurance will probably increase for at the very least a period of 3 years. Sometimes insurance companies will wait till the policy renews to up the cost of the insurance.  Others do it right away or even cancel the insurance, causing the insured person to pay a small fortune just to get insured.  It can be double or more of what they were paying.

Please do the right thing & pay for the deductible, if there is one, & the added insurance costs she will have to foot, even if things don't work out between the two of you. 



I am more than prepared to do the right thing by her, after all I was at fault.........however my friend has said that she will say that I took the car without her permission, which however you cut it is accusing me of theft, which I do have a problem with.

I can see her point of view however in regards to safe gaurding her insurance credit rating.

(in reply to MissIsis)
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RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 12:20:51 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

however my friend has said that she will say that I took the car without her permission


she sounds like an awesome friend, setting you up so that her insurance can come after you for the damages


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Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 12:28:46 PM   
MstrObjectmaker


Posts: 480
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

however my friend has said that she will say that I took the car without her permission


she sounds like an awesome friend, setting you up so that her insurance can come after you for the damages




She is an awesome friend.........there aren't many people out there who would invite someone into thier home who they have only ever spoken to through IM and only once on the phone .

Let alone lend you thier car!!!

I think she's just extremely anxious about losing her credit rating..........

I know I would be............

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 12:30:21 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		And she's prepared to be a party to insurance fraud. 
But yeah, she's done more for a complete stranger than I'd be comfortable doing.  Heck I'm uncomfortable loaning my car to my son and we are both fully insured. 


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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 12:32:50 PM   
MySweetSubmssive


Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

You may want to call because from what I'm reading there are differing bundles of insurance coverages available in Florida including "uninsured motorist" protection.



Just for clarification, uninsured motorist is if you are *hit* by someone who has no insurance only.

I strongly agree that you should not go along with the idea of you stealing the car.  At that point, the police get involved and either you -- as KatyLied points out -- get a police record for insurance fraud, or you get a record for theft.

I found the auto page from the Florida Department of Insurance website.  Try wading around in here to get a little more clarity for your question:

http://www.fldfs.com/Consumers/literature/auto_guide/index.html


Mss

< Message edited by MySweetSubmssive -- 7/18/2008 12:43:16 PM >

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RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 12:40:14 PM   
TieNTeas


Posts: 101
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrObjectmaker
<snip>...however my friend has said that she will say that I took the car without her permission, which however you cut it is accusing me of theft, which I do have a problem with.

I can see her point of view however in regards to safe gaurding her insurance credit rating.

If true, this could lead to you being arrested.  And if she's lying about you taking the car without permission then she'll probably be at risk for filing a false police report and insurance claim.  You might want to talk to a lawyer in the area.

If you did borrow her car with permission and there were only property damages, then it should just fall on her insurance according to the information at http://www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/frfaqcrash.html#11 that Katy provided.  Whether or not her insurance goes up or not is dependent on her accident history, the insurance companies policies, etc.  If anyone was injured in the other car, then it appears they can go after you for damages.  But, again, you should probably talk to a local lawyer.

Also, an accident shouldn't affect her credit rating at all.  Not paying a judgement or insurance in relation to the accident would, however.
http://www.erate.com/fico_score_credit_scoring_basics.htm


< Message edited by TieNTeas -- 7/18/2008 12:44:09 PM >

(in reply to MstrObjectmaker)
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RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 12:50:38 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

my friend has said that she will say that I took the car without her permission, which however you cut it is accusing me of theft,


BINGO!

So the choice is clear - deal with the truth or get arrested for grand theft auto; which isn't as much fun as the video game makes it out to be.

I finance insurance for a living, and I wouldn't give you any advise. The problem with any you get is that they are all out of the context of specific State Statues and specific policy terms for specific insurance companies.

Globally - the insurance follows the car. Globally the owner of the car is responsible for maintaining it and having the required insurance to keep it on the road. "No Fault" only means that you don't have to wait for liability to be determined by a court system and you can get your injuries paid and damage paid and the insurance company leaches, I mean lawyers, will sort out whose bank account the claim eventually it paid.

If the vehicle was uninsured, you're going to have a problem. Most states look at it as, the car shouldn't have been on the road; therefor any accident is your fault. If there was a policy in place that had a restrictive driver list, the car owner will be found liable. Adding the international aspect brings a whole other set of problems into the picture. By any chance do you have an insurance policy on any vehicle you own in Europe? Is so, and it has a provision about driving a car you do not own, you're problem may be solved.

Due to all the various nuances of insurance law - its best to start with the truth up front. Regardless of web you want to weave, down the road other consequences may be worse. Worse case for the owner of the vehicle is that he/she may be working for the other party if there are any injuries involved. The leach will go after all assets. Remember, you weren't supposed to be driving. Also keep in mind this is the USA; the land of the 'lawsuit lottery'. ANY injury incurred will cost you. The emergency room inflates the cost of their treatment 1000% to compensate for their required treatment of any body walking through their doors. The leach will send the victim to a chiropractor and/or other medical facility they have as a referral source and ring up the bill.

Good luck! And if need to say something to your friend; may I suggest you refer to the garage scene from that great American cinema classic Animal House (1978)...
Eric 'Otter' Stratton: You fucked up! You trusted us!

(in reply to MySweetSubmssive)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 1:02:32 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Yeah, I would seriously reconsider any thought of 1) lying to the authorities and/or 2) being a party to insurance fraud.  Those won't produce very good outcomes and will probably become more costly than admitting to the truth upfront with the insurance company.  If she is upset about the possibility of her insurance going up perhaps you can work up a deal to compensate her for any increase that is caused by the accident.  If she allowed you as a stranger to stay with her I can't imagine she wouldn't trust you to be good for your word.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 1:10:14 PM   
MySweetSubmssive


Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline 		... particularly since you are visiting the country, rather than being a citizen.  I could see that coming back to bite you in an ugly way.

Mss

_____________________________

"Oh, James, you're such a cunning linguist."

--Miss Moneypenny

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 1:12:53 PM   
MstrObjectmaker


Posts: 480
Status: offline 		Any good Sharks....oops I mean lawyers in the house??

< Message edited by MstrObjectmaker -- 7/18/2008 1:13:44 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 1:16:04 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		taking a car with out permission is a "felony"

do NOT play around with the system.

Make the other vehicle right-  and call it a day.

I wont lend a vehicle unless I am sure that person IS insured. I verbalize that their insurance is to cover it.

But if something happened the victem could go after the driver AND the owner.  While the owner of car wouldnt be criminal law- the assets could be taken -- it would all go thru the courts.

If the car is a junk and no other party was invovled leave it alone.  if another party was harmed it is best to make it right.

The nation auto theft bureau is in Palos Hills IL, near Chicago.

YOU are lucky no one was killed!!!!

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Vehicle insurance questions. - 7/18/2008 1:18:27 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Dude lawyers dont work for free.

$150-$200 AN HOUR.

If poor - contact legal aid.   blue pages of phone book.  tho likely they wont help as they focus on serious matters.....[like abusive men, evictions,]

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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