contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on?

contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (Full Version)

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kiwisub12 -> contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 2:59:39 PM)
So, how many people have a written contract, and what exactly is it for? Does the demand for a written contract indicate trust issues, in that the relationship is based on a document, not the persons word or assurances? Wouldn't it be easier to communicate face to face, verbally, rather than using a document to define your relationship? just curious

bipolarber -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 3:04:19 PM)
Psychologically, they can be a good tool in negotiation. Legally... they're best used as fire place kindling.

sub4hire -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 3:07:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber Psychologically, they can be a good tool in negotiation. Legally... they're best used as fire place kindling. Exactly meaning..that contract means nothing to the authorities if you get hurt.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 3:09:26 PM)
I have never actually used a written contract. That said, I can see their usefulness as a negotiation tool, and as a reference. People forget stuff. They say things and make promises, and all manner of stuff that falls by the wayside as life continues. It can be good to write it all down, so both parties know what the original intent of the agreement was. I can see a contract being used as a club to beat the other with, by both parties, especially if the letter of the law is expected to be followed. The thing with life is that the view keeps changing. Should the contract keep changing with it? I think so. It should at least be revisited, as a kind of anniversary .

stef -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 3:14:06 PM)
They're good fantasy fodder but otherwise they're worth about as much as free medical or legal advice from strangers on the net. ~stef

AquaticSub -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 3:16:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber Psychologically, they can be a good tool in negotiation. Legally... they're best used as fire place kindling. This pretty much sums it up. They can be a useful relationship tool, some are aroused by the idea of a contract but since slavery is illegal the contracts themselves won't hold up in court and can be used against the owner. While we don't have one, I can see the merits in having everything written out - provided the contract is not set in stone can be altered whenever X period of time has passed to account for people and tastes changing.

SteelofUtah -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 3:25:01 PM)
This is what the only contract I have found useful was useful for. It wasn't part of my world but I did find it useful and have thought about it since whenever anyone mentions them. This is how it went down. A friend wanted to allow his girl to see things from a different perspective, So he suggested she stay with a Sadist who didn't care if she was enjoying herself. She had been complaining that He wasn't Violent enough for her. I know my friend and he does what he likes and does it for his enjoyment so there was a possibility that she was a heavier Masochist than he was a Sadist, However at the time we both correctly assumed it was a matter of the girl wanting something she didn't really understand. So a Contract was drawn up between My Friend and the Sadist and she was there to agree or disagree with everything in the contract, in this effect she was in complete control of what went into the contract and then the two Guys went and discussed it and came back with a few alterations and rewording to which she read over and agreed too and for 72 hours she belonged to the Sadist under the rules and guidelines that mostly she made up or fully agreed to. We knew she was going to come back much more respectful and appreciative of the play she got when as she signed the paperwork and the two men shook hands she had a ball shoved in her mouth and duct taped before being hand cufffed and threw in the Sadists Trunk. Apparently she wasn't allowed to sleep for three days and was left standing on her tip toes above a dildo on a stake which was much larger than she was used to. She was Caned, but not whipped which was her stipulation.... I guess she forgot about all the other nasty things a Sadist could do. She was given a safe word, which she did not use however after the three days were up and the contract was destroyed she NEVER complained again and they have been together for 7 years now. I don't like contracts but in this case it was used as a learning device using the girls own pride to teach tthe lesson. I was Impressed and even thought I do not care for Contracts if I has a Similar lesson to leach I believe I would do it this same way. Steel

DomDolf -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 3:53:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 So, how many people have a written contract, and what exactly is it for? Does the demand for a written contract indicate trust issues, in that the relationship is based on a document, not the persons word or assurances? Wouldn't it be easier to communicate face to face, verbally, rather than using a document to define your relationship? just curious I use a contract to set expectations and to document the acceptance of the standards. This is mainly used as a psychological tool in my case. It is not a show of mistrust but a written commitment which because it is written can be read and reviewed for many reasons. Many of these reasons are positive. Before a contract is written there are many face to face communications. The document does not define the relationship, it documents the definition that two or more people have discussed and agreed upon. Dolf

Skully7000 -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 4:17:16 PM)
what is written on the contract vs what the contract itself is... I'm either/or about what is written on it...for that is something that can be changed re-worded re-worked etc etc as time goes on. (I know some who have 1 and only 1 contract but many of the points are null and void as the relationship grew. I know others who resign the contract every year as if it was a lease or such) the thing I value about it is the case of my girlfriend's contract with her Master: She signed her contract to be his property with her own blood. the contract is a matter of pride and honor just as her ceremonial collar (the one she was collared in) just as is her Daily collar (a necklace that uses an allen key screw to "lock" on ) a perfectly good example: if you ever asked "would you ever give back your collar?" her response would be "Hell NO, I signed that contract in blood" so what is written on the contract...not sure of the signifigance of that... the fact that she has a collar and signed a contract to her master as part of her collaring ceremony signifying her relationship with her master. that is pretty meaningful to me(especially as the "boyfriend" and someday Husband) Cheers Skully

LadyBanedeFaol -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 4:31:47 PM)
Both myself and House Faol uses contracts. They outline exactly what is expected of both the slave and the Dominant. That way if there is ever a dispute the contract can be looked at and the situation reconciled. The contract is always open to negotiation. It lets both parties know exactly what is expected of them and it outlines the consequences of not honoring the contract. Does it hold up in a court of law? No. Does it have an impact on the slave? You bet. It is a very useful psychological tool for making the slave feel her bonds a little better, Is it right for everyone? No. What works for one Dominant doesnt necessarily work for anyone else. That is the joy and beauty of this lifestyle. It is as unique as the individuals that live it. Lady Bane deFaol

DesFIP -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 4:42:35 PM)
They are, IMO, more useful in the writing than in the having. What that means is that while you work on one, hammering out both to yourself and your partner exactly what something means to you, is that you get much more clear communication. Let's say you agree to monogamy. Does that mean penetrative sex only? Can you kiss and fondle someone else? Can you play privately? Can you play in a public play space? Can you get together one on one with your ex? Most of us have our own definitions for such things and don't recognize that others' definitions may vary. But in the writing of a contract it is quite common to figure out exactly what is entailed. It's just one of many possible learning tools. Now we didn't do that, all he did was write out all of my hard limits so I could see that he understood all of them. But our relationship isn't structured with rules or protocols, it just grew organically while fitting into our lives. For others, who work in a different manner, it could be very useful.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 4:45:24 PM)
Personal opinion, contracts are unfortunately too often substitutes for communication, and I prefer not to use them. I dont want to set everythign down at the beginning and then have to rewrite the contract every time something changes. Not nearly fluid enough for me. DV

Reverend0Link -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 4:57:17 PM)
I don't believe that contracts are useful. However, I do believe in their ceremonial power. In my experience, the ceremony of being "under contract" has been very exciting and reassuring to those who I have "collared".

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 5:51:16 PM)
http://www.collarchat.com/m_545721/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#546253 Contracts- who uses them? http://www.collarchat.com/m_537964/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#537987 contracts (5) http://www.collarchat.com/m_507069/mpage_1/key_CONTRACTS/tm.htm#507258 contracts http://www.collarchat.com/m_484623/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#485005 contracts, necessary or not? http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=425700&mpage=1&key=contracts&#425768 bdsm contracts http://www.collarchat.com/m_15441/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#15441 Master/slave contract http://www.collarchat.com/m_21514/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#21514 CONTRACT http://www.collarchat.com/m_1001/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#1001 Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why is it so different between Masters n Mistresses? http://www.collarchat.com/m_1108/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#1108 Contracts? http://www.collarchat.com/m_17858/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#17858 Should slaves be able to submit to legally binding slave contracts? http://www.collarchat.com/m_20389/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#20389 Enforcable "slave" contracts http://www.collarchat.com/m_22380/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#22380 Contracts (AGAIN LOL) http://www.collarchat.com/m_24502/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#24502 Breaking COntracts http://www.collarchat.com/m_34466/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#34466 Contracts for sub http://www.collarchat.com/m_46146/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#46146 Contracts (2) http://www.collarchat.com/m_82470/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#82470 Service "contracts" (no it isn't about legality) http://www.collarchat.com/m_93072/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#93072 slave contracts http://www.collarchat.com/m_96407/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#96407 Contracts, again... http://www.collarchat.com/m_111463/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#111463 written contracts? http://www.collarchat.com/m_111845/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#111845 The question of written contracts http://www.collarchat.com/m_162840/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#162840 merging wedding vows and Ds contracts http://www.collarchat.com/m_212413/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#212413 Contracts (3) http://www.collarchat.com/m_278323/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#278323 Dom/sub written contracts http://www.collarchat.com/m_287421/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#287421 slave contracts, good examples needed http://www.collarchat.com/m_71935/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#71935 D/s contract

bipolarber -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 7:20:39 PM)
Ah! Now THERE's the LuckyAlbatross I know and love! (I've missed your links so, LA... It so nice to see you back!) :)

Evility -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 7:26:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus I have never actually used a written contract. That said, I can see their usefulness as a negotiation tool, and as a reference. People forget stuff. They say things and make promises, and all manner of stuff that falls by the wayside as life continues. It can be good to write it all down, so both parties know what the original intent of the agreement was. Agree totally. I was in a poly relationship for several years. She had this perplexing habit of being able to recall things that we had agreed upon that suited her situation while having total amnesia regarding things that we had agreed upon that posed obstacles to her agenda. I wish I had committed it all to paper in the beginning. It probably would not have changed the outcome but it would have prevented her from rewriting the rules at will. I'll never do poly again but I would encourage anyone considering it to write it down.

lighthearted -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 7:32:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomDolf I use a contract to set expectations and to document the acceptance of the standards. that is what we did, it's actually very helpful to me, as I'm a very goal-oriented person, and I kind of always have it in the back of my mind. plus, I'm old, so I forget.[:D]

Leatherist -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 7:41:08 PM)
What is written on the heart is all that matters.

WhisperSupremacy -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 7:42:43 PM)
If someone tried to talk me into a bdsm contract, I'd wipe my ass with it..... the same goes for a record contract.

MidMichCowboy -> RE: contracts? are they worth the paper they are written on? (7/18/2008 7:49:25 PM)
My contract: I'm a barbarian, I'll do whatever comes to mind. I won't share you, I will love you but probably also use and abuse you. I have dark streaks and good streaks. You will have to live with it. I want a full life ... kink, intellectual, sexual, love, family and US.

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