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RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 10:54:14 AM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline 		One of my primary skills as a dominant is getting into someone else's head. I can pretty much literally read my slave's mind, and I like it that way, wouldn't want it to be any other way. No holding back, no keeping things to yourself; if you try, I will dig it out and I will not be pleased to have to do so.
So, clearly, intimacy is a must for me. As far as myself, I hold nothing back, either; I believe full and complete and deep communication is the best way to a thriving, healthy relationship.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 11:19:17 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
In your opinion, what is a "disciplined way"?  Would it bother you to find out that your partner felt that your relationship was not intimate?


I am not speaking for Steven, but I know that in my relationship, I am not allowed to engage in behavior that could be described as emotional diarrhea.  If all I am doing is emotionally running in circles and saying the same thing over and over, he shuts it down until I am able to clearly express how I am feeling and what the issue is. 

Converations are to be constructive and we are to maintain the behavior that he thinks is appropriate.  If our behavior becomes inappropriate or destructive in his opinion, then it stops until the behavior can be changed.  This discipline has deepened our intimacy and not hampered it in any way.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 11:30:27 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
In your opinion, what is a "disciplined way"?  Would it bother you to find out that your partner felt that your relationship was not intimate?


I am not speaking for Steven, but I know that in my relationship, I am not allowed to engage in behavior that could be described as emotional diarrhea.  If all I am doing is emotionally running in circles and saying the same thing over and over, he shuts it down until I am able to clearly express how I am feeling and what the issue is. 

Converations are to be constructive and we are to maintain the behavior that he thinks is appropriate.  If our behavior becomes inappropriate or destructive in his opinion, then it stops until the behavior can be changed.  This discipline has deepened our intimacy and not hampered it in any way.

Knight's Kyra


I would agree that being able to articulate in a rational manner is important to good communication, though it is hard sometimes to stay focused when emotions are running high.  I suppose what I thought when reading his reply was of the men I've known who simply shut down any "intimate" talk just as soon as it starts.  You know... the ones who say, "I'm busy right now", "Now's not a good time" , or the flat out, "I don't really want to talk about this."  There's also the tendency for men to simply take the avoidance route by simply acknowledging what you've said but having no real interest in resolving any underlying issues.  There's no real communication is all he's doing is being a sounding board... that doesn't create intimacy.

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 7/19/2008 11:40:24 AM >

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 11:33:52 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
In your opinion, what is a "disciplined way"?  Would it bother you to find out that your partner felt that your relationship was not intimate?


I am not speaking for Steven, but I know that in my relationship, I am not allowed to engage in behavior that could be described as emotional diarrhea.  If all I am doing is emotionally running in circles and saying the same thing over and over, he shuts it down until I am able to clearly express how I am feeling and what the issue is. 

Converations are to be constructive and we are to maintain the behavior that he thinks is appropriate.  If our behavior becomes inappropriate or destructive in his opinion, then it stops until the behavior can be changed.  This discipline has deepened our intimacy and not hampered it in any way.

Knight's Kyra


Just a little tid bit to add to what Kyra has contributed.

There are times that people feel emotionally stressed and actually need to rant/vent.  Ranting in of itself is very seldom constructive... but none the less it can be constructive to be able to rant and vent when needed.  It is for this reason I have a specific protocal that when permission is seeked and granted my girls can  Rant/Vent about a given issue or issues that has them twisted up.. and sometimes the issue is me *G*. 

I do not tolerate or find acceptable Uncontroled Irrational Behaviors... and never will!!!!! 

Having Constructive behaviors/interactions is what contributes to intimacy.  I see destructive behaviors/interactions as a hinderance to intimacy.  Having contructive behaviors takes self-control and discipline which doesn't just happen.  A person has to be determined and committed to build their self-control and discipline so they can behave appropriately and make constructive choices regardless of the emotional stress they are feeling at the time.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 11:37:43 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

As is the case with a lot of my relationship, there are double standards.  I am encouraged to open up my heart and share with my Master.  He sometimes shares with me the things that He is going through.  I have found that He simply isn't very good at sharing His feelings with me.  Frankly, that hurts my feelings sometimes.  I know that O/our relationship is not a romance, and that He does not love me.  He often tells me He is proud of me but rarely anything beyond that.  Sometimes I see His feelings in His actions, and sometimes I don't.  I know He fosters in me a need for Him.  Sometimes I wish that I could see that the need for me, not just the need for me to finish tasks, was obvious.  (I know, I need to talk with Him about it.)


Not everyone wants or requires love. But I do. In my last relationship, that ended about a month ago, I was not loved and I found it ultimately frustrating. Now I have miraculously found someone that already wants to own me and can open his heart and share his feelings. Maybe some find it wrong for a sub to want to know shes adored by her Sir. However its what I need. The need to be needed and wanted and missed and for someone to be feeling like a teenager because they met me. I was willing to settle for less but I am glad I was released and therefore available for my hearts desire.

That's amazing LL!  I am really happy for you!


Yes, I know! If someone wrote a book about what I have been through the last couple of weeks it would seem a fairy tale and impossible. I have literally had someone come desiring to sweep me off my feet!

Now I am as lucky as you, Girl!

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 7/19/2008 11:39:10 AM >

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 11:43:48 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		I believe that it is an 'ideal' that there be 100% intimacy in a relationship, but that that ideal is rarely realized. I consider myself blessed to have come close to that 100% on occasion, but there remains the reality that there are some things that cannot be said, without risking irreparable harm to the listener... and things that we do not want to share, because they are ours... and other things that we -dare- not share, because they are so deep, painful, or profound that sharing them might be mis-understood.

I have been in a 10-year-long intimate relationship with my mate. We've gone from her being my seminary student, when that was the only relationship we shared, to us being lovers (our spiritual path does not frown on this relationship--it is considered wrong to push for it or be coercive, but a blessing if it happens organically), to her being my mistress (as I began the journey to earn my crop), then to us becoming compatriots. Through all of it, there have been variations in the flow of intimacy.

When I was her pastor and teacher, some intimacy was shared, as she brought forth pieces of her life that she hadn't dealt with, to clean up the messes those pieces left behind so she could finish her time in seminary. When I was her lover, we shared about 80% of our thoughts with transparency. There were still pieces that we kept close to ourselves, and things that we didn't say or couldn't share. When I was a servant of the house, total transparency was expected... and even then, there were pieces of me that I held apart... that I would not.... could not... share..even to the master of the house, for whom I would have given my life (but not these few secrets). Now, she and I are companions. We are comfortable with one another, and know one another intimately. Even then, there are times when I hold my tongue, and hold my thoughts opaque, because to do otherwise might hurt the person I care about more than the satisfaction I would get from freely sharing my thoughts.

As a dominant, I still feel much as I did as a seminary instructor on our path... I encourage transparency, and realize that the bond between us is more like "Transitions" sunglass lenses in full sun when we come together -- and it will take a steady shift from the bright light of the common world into the shadows of our deepest relationship, far into our center. I know that I will never have 100% transparency... like Transitions lenses, it never gets quite all the way to clear... but as our relationship deepens, I know that I will be able to see his "eyes"... his secret self... the windows to his soul... and they will be exposed and vulnerable, and I will cherish that moment when it comes.

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 7/19/2008 11:45:40 AM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 11:58:16 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I need that intimacy to be both ways. Him wanting to know all about me so he can manipulate me isn't going to happen unless he is equally vulnerable. Without that reciprocity, I just wouldn't feel safe enough to submit and trust him.

Thankfully, he's old and mature enough to realize that being fully known and accepted is as important to him as it is to me. The sex stuff is great, but when we're on our death beds the only ones who will hold our hands as we pass are not going to be various anonymous sex partners, but the people who know us and love us fully.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 12:02:12 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

However, communicating at that level, being truly open risks the relationship, and people who NEED to be in a relationship won't take that risk because preserving it becomes more important than meeting their own needs.  They lie to themselves and their partners.


There is an incredible amount of truth in your statement.  However,.. I am not so sure that it is a trade off of preserving the relationship as compared to meeting their needs.  In fact, for alot of people that Need the relationship.. they see the Relationship as meeting their needs.  Is this the lie they are telling themselves and their partners?  Maybe.  But, I think that Need for the Relationship is a cover for their inseurities.  In being in the relationship they Need.. they don't feel as insecure or weak.. choose your term. However,  it is a rock and a hard place... being alone they feel insecure in the world and Need that relationship to feel complete.  But they get in the relationship.. their insecurities are still a bubbling issue.   Their insecurities prevent them from being intimate in the relationship and then you have intimacy problems in the relationship.

I believe that individuals need to confront and face the truth of their own insecurities.  I believe that a person needs to realize that no matter how long you go through live... insecurities are going to show up in a person's life from time to time.  But they don't have to rule your life.  We can face them one step at a time.  As Kyra stated, I am very free and intimate with my two girls.  But, I didn't start that way in life... it developed to that point because I choose to get it their.  I wanted to be their.  In my early adulthood and teenage years I had alot of insecurity issues and found it very difficult to have a relationship let alone start one.  It took me alot of self work to confront these insecurities that are in themself destructive to an intimate relationship.  I never killed them.. I never beat them..  They still rest with me from time to time.  But I stopped projecting them on to others.  They are my issue and no else.  An amazing thing started to happen.  When I stopped focusing on what I was insecure about.. I started to focus on what I was secure about.  I learned that taking constructive steps towards security is a way to build a health relationship.  I also learned that it takes more than one person to do this.. but I can't take their steps.. I can only take my own.  It is a wonderful thing when peole come together focused on the relationship and not their own selfish self.  Every day our committment to the relationship continues to show that my insecurities are wrong again... proven wrong for so long that I forget to listen to them.  But.. I didn't start there...

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 7/19/2008 12:03:12 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 12:17:19 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
However, communicating at that level, being truly open risks the relationship, and people who NEED to be in a relationship won't take that risk because preserving it becomes more important than meeting their own needs.  They lie to themselves and their partners.
OK, I mostlly agree.  But it's important to remember that everyone has their own amount of need for intimacy.  Some people want a looser orbit and others a tighter orbit around their partners. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
For me, I will never again have a relationship where I cannot be vulnerable and where my partner not only accepts that vulnerability but welcomes and treasures it.  However, that sort of trust is delicate, and once broken is not easily repaired.  Like all real trust, it takes time and an accumulation of actions that shows consistency.
Kind of....  Trust in my opinion is something that is gradually accrued over time as I do things for my partner that she interprets as trustworthy.  When I am less than perfect, I spend some of the trust that is built up.  The game is to make sure that I never spend my account dry.  If my girl broke my trust, even in a big way, at this point, it wouldn't be that hard to "fix" because she's got more than a decade of accumulated "good" to bank on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
In addition, it means I have to be willing to hear things that are uncomfortable, sometimes even painful to have come from your partner.  But real truth isn't always warm and fuzzy, sometimes your breath smells, your contributions to the relationship are lacking, or some other unpleasant truth.  However, with a real intimate nurturing relationship, that painful truth is felt only once, things can be changed and fixed before they undermine the relationship and so every painful truth makes the relationship stronger and more fulfilling and in the long run is far less painful than secrets and unspoken expectations.
And don't I know this just having heard a somewhat painful message from my girl on how I could be doing better.  But exactly as you said, I'd rather pick the scab and disinfect the wound, painful as that may be, than let it fester until our relationship has the equivalent of gangrene.  You know what?  It's even true that some of the ways I am less than perfect are NEVER going to change.  But at least the open and direct effort to address them as a team takes the bite out of them.

quote:

ORIGINAL:  TreasureKY
As dominant, do you veto or discourage this kind of intimacy with your sub?  Do you require it?  Do you consider or desire your D/s relationship to be this kind of intimate relationship?

I can't imagine a relationship of any sort that did not include deep emotional intimacy.  For me, at least, that's the whole point.  I'd have no interest in a D/s relationship without an intimate love affair.  Much as I like my sizzle, it's the steak that feeds me.


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 1:36:19 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

However, communicating at that level, being truly open risks the relationship, and people who NEED to be in a relationship won't take that risk because preserving it becomes more important than meeting their own needs.  They lie to themselves and their partners.


There is an incredible amount of truth in your statement.  However,.. I am not so sure that it is a trade off of preserving the relationship as compared to meeting their needs.  In fact, for alot of people that Need the relationship.. they see the Relationship as meeting their needs.  Is this the lie they are telling themselves and their partners?  Maybe.  But, I think that Need for the Relationship is a cover for their insecurities.  In being in the relationship they Need.. they don't feel as insecure or weak.. choose your term. However,  it is a rock and a hard place... being alone they feel insecure in the world and Need that relationship to feel complete.  But they get in the relationship.. their insecurities are still a bubbling issue.   Their insecurities prevent them from being intimate in the relationship and then you have intimacy problems in the relationship.

I believe that individuals need to confront and face the truth of their own insecurities.  I believe that a person needs to realize that no matter how long you go through live... insecurities are going to show up in a person's life from time to time.  But they don't have to rule your life.  We can face them one step at a time.  As Kyra stated, I am very free and intimate with my two girls.  But, I didn't start that way in life... it developed to that point because I choose to get it their.  I wanted to be their.  In my early adulthood and teenage years I had alot of insecurity issues and found it very difficult to have a relationship let alone start one.  It took me alot of self work to confront these insecurities that are in themselves destructive to an intimate relationship.  I never killed them.. I never beat them..  They still rest with me from time to time.  But I stopped projecting them on to others.  They are my issue and no else.  An amazing thing started to happen.  When I stopped focusing on what I was insecure about.. I started to focus on what I was secure about.  I learned that taking constructive steps towards security is a way to build a health relationship.  I also learned that it takes more than one person to do this.. but I can't take their steps.. I can only take my own.  It is a wonderful thing when people come together focused on the relationship and not their own selfish self.  Every day our commitment to the relationship continues to show that my insecurities are wrong again... proven wrong for so long that I forget to listen to them.  But.. I didn't start there...


BSB and I hit a rather brutal rough spot a while back, she had a legitimate gripe but couldn't bring it to me because she loved me and didn't want to hurt me.  However, it boiled and festered and turned to gang green as Leadership stated and we split up because of it.  We are working to put the pieces back together, I am dealing with a cluster of issues that have crippled me and kept me from being the successful person I should be.   At some point I will share that struggle but it isn't relevant here.

BSB is the first woman I have been with who truly doesn't need me, she isn't some wounded/crippled/insecure person who needs some larger than life "Captain Save'a'ho" to rescue her.  She is a truly fully functioning adult who is completely independent.  There is a part of me that that scares the fuck out of.  Two weeks ago I would have laughed at anyone who tried to tell me that but it is true.  I was wondering why I was feeling so emotionally wobbly and couldn't get myself grounded and so I went rooting around for why.  I realized, with a start, that her independence scares me, I want her a "little" dependent on me, tied to me.  Frankly, I am not sure yet what it means or where this little loose thread is going to go.  Part of me wonders if my dominance isn't then simply a bit of more evolved, but still real co-dependence.  Does it mean what we had is broken and can't be fixed?  Perhaps it means there is growth that I need to do to become more secure and if so, how will that inform my dominance?  Frankly, I don't know.  I know when I stopped emotionally manipulating my partners, I became a more effective dominant AND got my needs met better.  I stopped having a partner walking on eggshells hoping she was going to meet my needs without me getting angry, a situation not conducive to true intimacy. In this relationship now, our communication is even more honest than it was before, working through pain together brings us closer together and heals the wounds of our breakup which will hopefully all add to our intimacy in the long run.

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 7/19/2008 1:39:44 PM >

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 2:06:01 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		~ Fast Reply ~

Wow, what a thread.  A personal thanks, for what it's worth, for everyone who took the time and effort to share so openly.  To answer the OP, I am encouraged and required to be as emotionally revealing as possible.  And for me personally, I need to be that way with someone I love.  If I am not totally honest, I am lying to him and to myself, and after living in a world of denial for most of my life, I can not and will not do that again.

One thing my Master taught me from day one - be honest with him, and tell him all that is on my mind and in my heart, even if I think he doesn't want to hear it.  To withhold the truth of what I think and feel is to keep a wall between us.  We can't solve a problem if we don't discuss it, and problems don't go away on their own.

We are imperfect beings, aren't we?  Sometimes it is scary as hell to open up.  Sometimes we don't want to hurt our partner's feelings when we are unhappy.  But holding such feelings in creates a cancer that can only grow unless a light is shined on it.  The timing of this thread is interesting, because I have recently shined a light - a very painful light - on some imperfections within my own relationship, which may result in ending it.  We both want the relationship, but whether or not we as individuals and partners can find a solution we can both be fulfilled with, both together and individually, we may or may not be able to save it.

Intimacy brings about the ability to be completely honest, both when times are good and when times are not so good.  Or is it that honesty brings about the ability to be intimate.  I know that I need both in my life, and that this incredible man in my world has taught me to be so vulnerable - with him and with myself - that to be anything but honest is no longer an option for me.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 2:46:47 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
In addition, it means I have to be willing to hear things that are uncomfortable, sometimes even painful to have come from your partner.  But real truth isn't always warm and fuzzy, sometimes your breath smells, your contributions to the relationship are lacking, or some other unpleasant truth.  However, with a real intimate nurturing relationship, that painful truth is felt only once, things can be changed and fixed before they undermine the relationship and so every painful truth makes the relationship stronger and more fulfilling and in the long run is far less painful than secrets and unspoken expectations.


Its also a risk telling your frustrations of a partners lack to your partner. Thats an honesty thats just as hard and leaves you just as vulnerable. If I hadn't said what I was lacking, my Sir probably would not have come to the realization that he was not giving me what I need and that I deserved more and he needed to work on himself alone. If I had known the end result would be goodbye, I probably woud not have said anything. Although in the long run it was a good thing but devastating at the time.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Intimacy... - 7/19/2008 6:32:54 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		I need intimacy and love in my relationship with Daddy.  We started out as friends, then it became a relationship that involved D/s.  I came into the friendship needing to share my thoughts, dreams, hurts, and feelings with someone who didn't seem ready to judge and criticize me.  He was there to listen and share a little of His own.  In a short span of time, He opened up to me in a way that makes the relationship we have now, that much more intimate. 

He encourages me to be open, honest, and vulnerable.  He does the same, but not to the same extent that perhaps I do.  But He is very open and lets me into places others are never allowed to see.

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Intimacy... - 7/20/2008 12:56:03 AM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		I have gotten better through the years in letting a lady open up to me about her feelings. What has been hard for me is to do, is to share my innermost feelings and thoughts. I survived life because I built walls. Letting someone in, is very difficult. What I need is someone who will have the strength and patience to journey inside me, while sharing her innermost thoughts and feelings.

This is the level of intimacy I seek.

_____________________________

I want to capture your mind, your spirit, your soul, your body, your devotion and your love. Then, will I give you my heart.

(in reply to Daddysredhead)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Intimacy... - 7/20/2008 4:18:16 AM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline 		What a great responses. Intimacy is something that I have to have.  It allows us both to open up and be completely honest with our communication.   Intimacy is not simply being verbal with each other.  Partners communicate with looks, touches, emotions along with words.  Intimacy comes with trust, honesty, communication, awareness of your partner's needs and being able to verbalize and talk openly without fear of "walking on eggshells" as SimplyMichael put it.  

(in reply to MidMichCowboy)
Profile   Post #: 35
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