hizgeorgiapeach
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stella41b
How many of you would be just as angry if these people weren't living off SSI, but let's say two corporate CEOs trying to do something similar but get out of paying taxes? The sums of money involved would be much greater than what I would assume you get paid for on SSI. I don't condone or approve of CEOs trying to commit Fraud any more than I do welfare, SSI/SSD, or other Assistance program recipients. Fraud is Fraud is Fraud. Period. Heretic is correct in his statement that it's comparing Apples and Axle Grease, though - as the ceos you use as an example are trying to hold on to money that would go into public coffers - not to gain Extra money From those public coffers.
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And like none of you get any benefits from all these taxes and stuff you pay? 'I work my ass off to pay tax' - great, what a wonderful achievement, give yourselves a round of applause. Maybe when you retire you might get a medal or a pretty looking carriage clock. Have I in the past? Yes, as a single parent of a severely handicapped child I was on a couple of assistance programs at one point in time. I didn't Want the help then, but necessity for the sake of spawn forced me to put aside personal pride for her wellbeing. Did I commit (or even Need to commit) fraud in order to get that help? No, and quit associating with those who suggested that I do so in order to increase benefits and make life somewhat easier while the situation was relevant to my life. Would I take help now? No, regardless of whether it was legitimate or fraudulent - because I much perfer Self Reliance.
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Here in the UK it would be illegal. But you know the law isn't quite the same as morality and to me morally it shouldn't really make a difference, which I assume is the motivation behind what is described in the OP. It's not as if they're trying to get more money out of the system than what they would have been entitled to if the rules were fairer. Here in the US it's illegal as well. And no, legality and morality are often far removed from each other. However, I consider FRAUD - or Intended Fraud to be a matter of Ethics and wrong Regardless of whether it's legal or illegal. The system is a lot more "fair" than many would like folks to believe. My father is currently on SSD (social security disability - specifically for those who worked all their lives but became physically disabled prior to reaching an age where they could draw the social security they'd paid in through working) as opposed to SSI (supplimental security insurance - for those who have never worked, or worked very little, prior to becoming disabled, and therefore have not paid anything in to the system TO draw from - which therefore comes directly out of the taxes paid for by Others who have worked or are currently in the workforce.) Between my father and daughter, I'm considerably more aquainted with the system - how it works, where the money comes from, how it's intended to be spent, and how much is allocated per case based on things such as other income sources and cost of living requirements - than I ever wanted to be.
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Can any of you actually prove what you are saying that your taxes are actually supporting someone on SSI? Or is this just something you've all assumed? Prove as in provide links that you'll ignore anyway, or prove because we're far to familiar with the system? As for links, I can easily provide the link for the Social Security Administration - part of the federal government, and the specific agency in charge of determining SSI/SSD/SS benefits claims legitimacy. They give the formula somewhere on that website for how benefits are calculated.
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More to the point, how many of you know why the people in question are actually on SSI, or is it just your assumption, yet again, that these people are lazy? How do you know for example that these people aren't disabled, seriously ill, or unable to get work? What I assume is that they are physically disabled in a manner that qualified them for such benefits, after the claim was filed and then investigated for determination of qualification. Do I know what the specific disabilities are? No, nor do I need to know such. What I know is that each claim which is approved, and the person begins to recieve benefits, is thoroughly investigated by the SSA, doctors that it contracts to go over medical records pertaining to the case, and information that the individual applying for benefits provides to prove their case other than medical records. I know this for FACT, because I've been through the process - as the guardian, representative, or power of attorney for 2 seperate cases spread 20 years apart, and the process was the same each time, requiring the same proof to be submitted to the agency, along with signed affadavits stating that everything on the various forms was true and correct under penalty of perjury and potential jail time if incorrect or fraudulent answers were knowingly given.
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The thing is what you do in this case, i.e. work and the fact that you pay tax doesn't make a difference. From what I can gather from the OP these people are on SSI, therefore this isn't anybody else's money but their's, it's money which they're entitled to based on the decision of an authority for whatever reason, and actually what they do with this money isn't any of your business. It's money which, quite frankly due to it's nature as SSI rather than SSD, is money that they themselves did NOT pay into the system. It comes out of Tax Coffers - ie, money that OTHERS made, and were required to pay in. Anyone who is a Taxpayer - someone paying INTO the system, rather than taking out Of the system who has never paid into it in the first place - therefore contributes to their upkeep, and very much so has a Moral Right to be pissed off at FRAUD. When my children lived with me, and I was providing their support, I had a right - as the Person Ultimately Paying Their Bills - to be pissed if they expected more than that to which they were entitled. As a person paying into the system, whose money is Ultimately Paying Their Bills, albeit less directly - I STILL feel I have a right to be pissed when they attempt to defraud me (the taxpaying Public) of more than that to which - based on their living arrangements as 1 person in a home, or 2, or 3, or a dozen, they are entitled to recieve. While they SSA has, indeed, determined that they are each eligible for benefits - the AMOUNT of those benefits Changes, as is clearly stated BY THE SSA both on it's website AND in literature that it sends to those Recieving Benefits - Based On Changes In Circumstances And Living Arrangements. It also Clearly states in the literature that the SSA sends to recipients that they have a specific amount of time in which to report changes in such - marriage, death in the supported household numbers if other than the recipient themselves, birth of a child are all VERY specifically listed in that literature btw - and it states that Failure to report such changes is Fraud punishable by Jail Time, Large Fine, Loss of Benefits either temporary or Permanent, or other potential punisment items. Whether they get married, or simply move in together, they will STILL legally have to report to the SSA that there have been changes in living arrangements - period. If they don't, it's fraud, and they WILL face jail time, a $10,000 to $25,000 fine, partial loss of benefits to repay the overpayment if the SSA determines there has been overpayment, or possible Complete loss of benefits as a result of attempting to defraud the system.
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