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Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 4:33:25 PM

michelle1227

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Sire,
What is the difference of a submissive, slave and switch. I am new and I don't know the difference. Forgive me for my ignorance. I only wish to please

Michelle1227

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 4:36:08 PM

DiurnalVampire

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A switch is someone who can be, desires to be, or is Dominant sometimes and submissive sometimes.
The difference between submissive and slave varies depending on who you ask. You might want to look up older threads for the answer to that one, though you wont find a concrete answer. That is best left to asking your prospective Dominant party when you meet them.

DV

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 4:36:29 PM

Sub4You4UKOnly

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Submissives have limits and can stop when they want
Slaves have to do what they are told when they are told
Switches are people that are both submissive and dominant

(well thats what i was told and im sorry for posting in the "Ask a Master" section when im a sub :)

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 4:39:49 PM

DiurnalVampire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sub4You4UKOnly

Submissives have limits and can stop when they want
Slaves have to do what they are told when they are told

As I said though, there is no one size fits all defiition for slaves. Both my slaves have limits and are allowed to stop whenever they desire.
There are also those who think submissive is unowned, slave is owned.

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 4:41:03 PM

hopelessfool

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Repost from another thread....

I personally dont think the term "slave" exists in this lifestyle. Slavery is and always will in my mind be something thats non consentual. I believe that there are many submissives that are deeply submissive to the point of being very slave like. But as long as their relationship is based on consent, I think its very deep submission that is slave like in nature, but not actual slavery.

But as I view it if I were to believe consentual slavery existed
Slave is one who drew up a contract with certian unbreakable limits (Ie no harm no abuse things against ToS) And after signing that with a certian time constraint (people do change so maybe once every 6 months to a year) They follow what they agreed to do during the time of their contract. Ie if you didnt let your owner know you couldnt be with a woman no matter what and didnt put it as a limit and he faced you with that challenge and denied your request to add it to the limits you follow through. You have the right to say No in such a situation to only things listed on that contract.

A submissive is ones with limits that are allowed to change through out the growing process who doesnt have a preconcieve contract so to speak, but has the lines drawn as to whats acceptable and what isnt. They also have the right to say no when ever they choose to due to being uncomfortable or having fears of a certian activity.

A Switch is someone who is has the ability to both preform submissive and dominant positions and choses which position they wish to be in depending on the partner.

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 5:01:09 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michelle1227

Sire,
What is the difference of a submissive, slave and switch. I am new and I don't know the difference. Forgive me for my ignorance. I only wish to please

Michelle1227

submissive: a crappy slave
slave: a real sub
switch: persona non-grata

Sorry, i couldn't resist. More seriously, "switch" is easy. It's someone who is sometimes top/dom and other times bottom/sub. This confuses me a bit since, to my knowledge, that description applies to all human beings. But that appears to be how people use it. The distinction between sub and slave is meaningless as the words are undefined. Generally though, "slave" implies more control given over to the dominant. How much more and where the boundary is varies depnding on who you ask. Don't spend a lot of time thinking about it. None of these terms actually describes a human being.

You'd do better to consider what thinks you want out of a relationship which would require you to have some idea of what the menu looks like. Consider things like....

Is submission for you inside the bedroom only, or not?
Under what circumstances would you submit to someone?
What initial boundaries would you place on that? (yes, you need some, I don't care who you are in the beginning)
Do you think submitting 24/7 (non-bedroom) might appeal?
How about kink? Any particular kinks you want?
What about non-kink? What are you looking for in a Master when he's not bossing you around?

I suppose at some point, the labels become helpful when you are trying to give some other person who doesn't know you a cliff's notes version of your involvement in BDSM. For that reason, I say I'm a 24/7 Lifestyler in a Master/slave relationship. That's barely a pencil sketch of who I am, even when restricted just to the topic of BDSM... but it's better than nothing.

It's better for you to define the labels than to let them define you

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 5:04:22 PM

DesFIP

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Sometimes switches are people who both top and bottom and aren't into power play at all.

A sub is someone who submits but who doesn't like the word slave.

A slave is someone who submits but doesn't like the word sub.

Everybody has limits. Even the most hardcore slave isn't going to jump off a bridge when her D type loses his/her temper and tells them to.

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 5:27:59 PM

leadership527

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LOLOL DesFIP.

I'm definitely going with your definitions of sub/slave from now on. I'd say that about sizes it up.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 5:29:07 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michelle1227

Sire,
What is the difference of a submissive, slave and switch. I am new and I don't know the difference. Forgive me for my ignorance. I only wish to please

Michelle1227

The difference between submissive and slave is one has three syllables while the other has one. There is no other difference worthy of discussion.

A switch is a submissive/slave who at least some of the time wants to be in charge.

Regarding your ignorance--it is forgiven. Anyone who does not forgive ignorance is himself/herself ignorant. (Discussion of differences between ignorance and stupidity here would constitute a thread hijack)

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 5:59:28 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michelle1227

Sire,
What is the difference of a submissive, slave and switch. I am new and I don't know the difference. Forgive me for my ignorance. I only wish to please

Michelle1227

Depends entirely on who you ask. In the end, what actually matters is what your owner believes.

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It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 6:44:57 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Sorry, i couldn't resist. More seriously, "switch" is easy. It's someone who is sometimes top/dom and other times bottom/sub. This confuses me a bit since, to my knowledge, that description applies to all human beings.

Do you believe you are sometimes dom and sometimes sub?

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 6:46:06 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
A switch is a submissive/slave who at least some of the time wants to be in charge.

Wow talk about a bias. Why not "A switch is a master who at least some of the time doesn't want to be in charge?"

Apparently you think switches are all primarily submissive? Which, just to let you know, is not what most switches would identify with at all.

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 6:48:44 PM

dcnovice

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<fast reply>

Submissives are fatter.

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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/20/2008 7:17:12 PM

DarkSteven

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No one fits all.

I knew a Master who bottomed for a demo. He had a slave who every so often would Top a woman. They would never consider themselves to be switches. And I knew one woman who I considered to be a Domme who occasionally switched, not a complete switch.

It's a real grey area.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/21/2008 2:30:19 AM

robertolapiedra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michelle1227

Sire,
What is the difference of a submissive, slave and switch. I am new and I don't know the difference. Forgive me for my ignorance. I only wish to please

Michelle1227

Hello michelle1227. Now this is just my opinion but to me a slave is someone's submissive style, a kink. A submissive may have a slave like style, a pet like style, a little girl/boy style, traditional 50s style and the dominant's style may be complementary to this (master, daddy, etc).

A switch is someone who enjoys complementing both as dominant and as submissive. In the dance analogy, switches ''enjoy'' both leading and following their dance partners.

Another thing that brings a lot of ''perceptual'' confusion is the ''is and do'' issue, or what you are vs what you do. A lot of people have the bottom kink but ''are'' not necessarily submissive. The same goes for a few that like to top in play but are not dominant at all in day to day life. Switches have no problem understanding this but a lot of ''ubers'' like things unidimensional and ultra polarized (fantasy based sexuality) and cannot wrap their minds around this. Some of them think a switch is only acting ''switchy'' but deep inside at the core ''must'' be either dominant or submissive. I find this to be a romantic view, some sort of projected idealism.

People are complex creatures, sometimes you ''are'' what you do and sometimes you simply ''are not''. What is important is having consensual kinky fun with your kinky complement. Labels are like jewelry, you decide what is just bling or what has profound significance. Just be aware that there are such a things as a fake engagement and wedding rings, as some people like to ''do'' the symbols a lot but ''are not'' necessarily the real bearers of these flags...

Hope this helped a little.RL.

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/21/2008 2:54:30 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Sorry, i couldn't resist. More seriously, "switch" is easy. It's someone who is sometimes top/dom and other times bottom/sub. This confuses me a bit since, to my knowledge, that description applies to all human beings. But that appears to be how people use it.

I would have to disagree with this completely. When people identify as a switch, they do so (generalisation) as an orientation, like people do as dominant and submissive. Topping and bottoming ae actions and have noting to do with the orientation of a person, which you may actively change between, but does not maketh a 'switch'. Submissives/slaves can top as well as bottom, depending on the requirements of the dominant(as an example).

the.dark.

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/21/2008 4:03:47 AM

OldBastardly1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

Repost from another thread....

I personally dont think the term "slave" exists in this lifestyle. Slavery is and always will in my mind be something thats non consentual. I believe that there are many submissives that are deeply submissive to the point of being very slave like. But as long as their relationship is based on consent, I think its very deep submission that is slave like in nature, but not actual slavery.

But as I view it if I were to believe consentual slavery existed

Time to pull off the blinders or get your head out of the sand, whichever the case may be.

The term "slave" does exist, even though you don't like it.
Consensual slavery does exist and is practised, even though you think it is a myth.

The words may not sit well with you, but that doesn't make them go away. Your post reminded me off a kid that will close their eyes and think that makes them invisible to the monster.

BTW, this post was not meant to offend you.

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/21/2008 6:49:08 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Sorry, i couldn't resist. More seriously, "switch" is easy. It's someone who is sometimes top/dom and other times bottom/sub. This confuses me a bit since, to my knowledge, that description applies to all human beings.

Do you believe you are sometimes dom and sometimes sub?

I believe ALL humans are sometimes dom and sometimes sub. Even my wife who I think of as having quite a few submissive tendencies relative to the general population very definitely has her dom moments. I think that I lean towards being dominant as a "default" if you will, and she leans towards being submissive in the same way. But to know which role either of would assume for real, you'd have to posit a specific situation.

In other words, I vote for complexity over simplifications.

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/21/2008 7:43:49 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Dark
I would have to disagree with this completely. When people identify as a switch, they do so (generalisation) as an orientation, like people do as dominant and submissive. Topping and bottoming ae actions and have noting to do with the orientation of a person, which you may actively change between, but does not maketh a 'switch'. Submissives/slaves can top as well as bottom, depending on the requirements of the dominant(as an example).

Well, personally, I agree with you. I would've aligned switch with d/s not t/b. But an awful lot of people (off the cuff, 3/4 or more) don't even differentiate between those two things and even for those that do, I've seen switch conversations along both vectors. So in the end, just like every other word in the BDSM lexicon, "switch" is undefined and I've seen it used in any way you can imagine to indicate someone who plays both sides of one or more streets. In fact, not a single word in your (or my) entire post is supportable... we both used words like "top", "bottom", "dominant", "submissive", etc. and I doubt you could provide a commonly accepted working definition for any of those words.

To the OP:
To my knowledge, there is no way to have a symantec discussion about BDSM. Remember, that we're talking about a community that cannot even agree on what it's own name, a 4 letter acronym, means. In fact, it's not really a community at all. At best, "the scene" is more like a ton of very small little cliques scattered across the globe with almost zero communication between them and frequently a ton of politics separating them. These little pockets of people who vaguely share an interest in pain (not d/s, pain -- hitting and being hit) exist in societies which are just now deciding maybe they don't need to be thrown in jail. BDSM appears to be moving into the suburbs in a big way as a result of the internet. Possibly in the next decade or two, an actual community will form wherein some commonly accepted terminology can develop.

Take heed of this conversation. Remember that there is no approval bodies, governing bodies, licensing bodies... no "community" in any real sense.. just a bunch of people who have a kink around hitting or being hit and sometimes talk to each other. Working out your own definitions is a useful process, but it's the process which is useful, not the definitions you end up with (since nobody else but you will share them). Since you're a new female sub, I'll toss this in. When the inevitable doms start showing up and touting their credentials (I've received a 12 degree black flogger from the old european house of Ni and have studied under [insert names here]), just remember that while all of what that person has said is interesting, none of it really means anything unless you also study the "old european house of ni" and decide that's a clique you'd be interested in.

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RE: Sire, What is the difference - 7/21/2008 7:56:39 AM

hopelessfool

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

Repost from another thread....

I personally dont think the term "slave" exists in this lifestyle. Slavery is and always will in my mind be something thats non consentual. I believe that there are many submissives that are deeply submissive to the point of being very slave like. But as long as their relationship is based on consent, I think its very deep submission that is slave like in nature, but not actual slavery.

But as I view it if I were to believe consentual slavery existed

Time to pull off the blinders or get your head out of the sand, whichever the case may be.

The term "slave" does exist, even though you don't like it.
Consensual slavery does exist and is practised, even though you think it is a myth.

The words may not sit well with you, but that doesn't make them go away. Your post reminded me off a kid that will close their eyes and think that makes them invisible to the monster.

BTW, this post was not meant to offend you.

No offense is taken.

When I think of a slave I think of a girl whos been taken from her country and forced in to servitude.
I look at what I greatly enjoy and get peace from, and I look at her life of hell and torture.

She is a slave, I am not, She can not leave with out being killed or other wise harmed, All I have to do is say, Im sorry Sir this isnt working I need to leave, pack my bags and go.

To me a slave is someone that can not leave their situation due to harm, or intense fear of harm.
Do I believe women can naturally submit to a point where mentally they have a healthy slave like mentality? Yes I do, Do I believe these women are slaves No, I do not. They have the right wither they will take it or not, to leave if they get harm.

quote:

Slaves are held against their will from the time of their capture, purchase, or birth, and are deprived of the right to leave, to refuse to work, or to receive compensation (such as wages) in return for their labor. As such, slavery is one form of unfree labor.

<<wiki

It might be that I do not like to compare my joy to that of the suffering of others, It might be i just have a distaste for the word, but my opinion is the same. As long as I retain the right to leave my sitatuon, I am not a slave.

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" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

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