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When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 5:29:50 AM   
missturbation


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Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I have friends (amazing huh?)  who have recently seemed to go through the same phenomena! I call it the 'when enough is not enough' syndrome.
All the experiences seem to be pretty much the same. Boy meets girl, they get on, have things in common to the point of one of them saying 'You are everything i ever wanted and more'.
Then boom, all of a sudden the person who has everything they wanted and more calls it quits. The reasons vary but in the main are pretty mundane, stuff that is easily sorted.
 The only big reason seems to be they are all of a sudden having doubts about the lifestyle. Well i say all of a sudden lol, these people have done this before. Not necessarily to the same person but still the 'lifestyle' seems to become an issue for them every so often.
So how do you go from 'all you ever wanted' to 'bye bye' without really working at the little things?
Why does the lifestyle seem to be a recurrent 'issue' for some people? Is it just an excuse to end a relationship?


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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 5:37:20 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		You'll find the same patterns in vanilla life.  Just when things seem perfect the one that has been longing for that bolts.  Often they will nitpick over small details to justify it, but the fact is that they often fear intimacy.

While not all BDSM relationships are romantic, I would classify them as intimate.  The sub is baring both body and most often their emotional essence to someone.  Typically the physical is less intense, but for some letting another into their most private space (their mind) is an extremely intimate experience.  For some it can be overwhelming.  (Take it from someone who has built emotional walls to protect herself since she was a child.  I still have to battle the fight or flight syndrome when I peel away another layer of the emotional onion.)


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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 5:42:34 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

The sub is baring both body and most often their emotional essence to someone.  Typically the physical is less intense, but for some letting another into their most private space (their mind) is an extremely intimate experience.  For some it can be overwhelming.  (Take it from someone who has built emotional walls to protect herself since she was a child.

I can definately relate to this and understand it.
What about a Dom though? Why would they take flight?

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 5:46:08 AM   
softness


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Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		I think some people get stunned by the reality of something.

Others are just fucktards who ahve no idea what they want, and when they get something they thought they wanted they go ... MEH! ... and walk away

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 5:52:42 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		A relationship is made of two people (more in poly).  The basic assumption made is that both people remain the same, and then one abruptly decides they want out.

That ain't the case.  During a relationship, both partners grow and change.  The communication MUST be there so that they stay with each other during this time.  Else, they grow apart and one or both will leave, emotionally if not physically.


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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 6:04:02 AM   
eyesopened


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Status: offline 		I spent nearly 20 years as a commitment-phobe.  When things got too perfect or too comfortable, I was always able to dig deep and find some "reason" (read: excuse) to end the relationship.  The "lifestyle" was just another convenient excuse.

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 6:28:41 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Status: offline 		Why wouldn't it be the same for a dom? 

Half the reason most people get into kink is an escape from vanilla life.  It's no surprise then they need to escape back to it later.

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 6:50:36 AM   
Prinsexx


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Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I have friends (amazing huh?)  who have recently seemed to go through the same phenomena! I call it the 'when enough is not enough' syndrome.
All the experiences seem to be pretty much the same. Boy meets girl, they get on, have things in common to the point of one of them saying 'You are everything i ever wanted and more'.
Then boom, all of a sudden the person who has everything they wanted and more calls it quits. The reasons vary but in the main are pretty mundane, stuff that is easily sorted.
 The only big reason seems to be they are all of a sudden having doubts about the lifestyle. Well i say all of a sudden lol, these people have done this before. Not necessarily to the same person but still the 'lifestyle' seems to become an issue for them every so often.
So how do you go from 'all you ever wanted' to 'bye bye' without really working at the little things?
Why does the lifestyle seem to be a recurrent 'issue' for some people? Is it just an excuse to end a relationship?


i haven't read through the other replies yet so forgive me please if this point of view has come up before. Three points of view actually; first suddenly quitting is not endemic to bdsm only, it's endemic in the zeitgeist, in today's way of life: quitting a job, quitting a marriage for example.
Second point: 'the all i ever wanted' is a feeling i have experienced in others relating to me and in myself when relating to anoher. It is a feeling that takes processes for granted. What i mean is there really is only a first time for a first time with someone: the first kiss, the first touch, the first smack on the bottom, the first crack of a whip, the first sting of the cane (whew getting carried away there)....except that sometimes experience dulls the senses so what was once an actual first time (the thrill, the expectation, the realisation of control say) loses its flavour.
Thirdly: this medium, the Internet, has absolutely turned the world from a world of scarcity to a world of bountifulness. i mean just supposed the only way to meet someone say after World War I here in class ridden UK was to 'court' the girl next door? Stay in touch by love letters precariously sent overseas...not know if you would see  each other alive again or not? It happened and people were respectful of each other's existence, had regard for life and indeed might i suggest a firmer grasp on the meaning of commitment. As i mature i not only value what time i have left a great deal more, bit i have experienced death: of both parents, of friends, of unborn children, of so many from overdoses and suicide attendant to the work i do. Life is indeed precious, even if we only realise it once it has passed.
'Playing' with people wasn't a widespread phenomena just a while away. Now that playing is widespread, (playing the field, playing away from home, fuck buddies, play partners, role playing) then leaving the game seems as easy as just whistle blowing.
Why would a Dom quit? Whay would a slave release herself? Well the answers will always remain couched in personal terms but the background of the zeitgeist is a very powerful one indeed.


< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 7/23/2008 7:03:44 AM >

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 6:53:35 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Why does the lifestyle seem to be a recurrent 'issue' for some people? Is it just an excuse to end a relationship?



Some people are commitment phobes.  Some just get scared full stop.  And yes it can be used as an excuse and often is when there is something more behind the death of the relationship.
 
the.dark.
 
 

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 7:06:27 AM   
ShadowMster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

All the experiences seem to be pretty much the same. Boy meets girl, they get on, have things in common to the point of one of them saying 'You are everything i ever wanted and more'.
Then boom, all of a sudden the person who has everything they wanted and more calls it quits. The reasons vary but in the main are pretty mundane, stuff that is easily sorted.


i haven't read through the other replies yet so forgive me please if this point of view has come up before. Three points of view actually; first suddenly quitting is not endemic to bdsm only it's endemic in the zeirtgeist, in today's way of life: quitting a job, quitting a marriage for example/
[...]
Now that playing is then leaving the game seems as easy as just whistle blowing.



I realize this is an old thread.  But still wanted to add one more thought to the mix.

Fear:  We're taught by life to be warned by things that sound too good to be true.  So, when you meet that special person, and you talk, often for days, till finally the moment of truth is near, a level of anxiety arises.  What if he/she finally seems me and we can't get the physical spark?  What if the other is really a serial killer (fruit loops or corn flakes)?

I submit that the fear of finally having everything you want can be so great, that a person will run from their dreams just to prevent having and lost.  What also does a person do if they finally have all that they desire to finally realize they set there expectations too low? 

What happens when you finally get everything, and you're not happy?  How does one rationalize not being happy when they have everythingthey have always wanted?

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 7:28:21 AM   
Mercnbeth


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Status: offline
quote:

Why does the lifestyle seem to be a recurrent 'issue' for some people? Is it just an excuse to end a relationship?

It has been my first hand experience that for many, if not most, the 'lifestyle' is more fun and exciting as fantasy versus life. The collective activities of WIITWD are great masturbatory fodder, but after experiencing them first hand, from either side of the flogger, they don't live up to the fantasy. I've seen it referred to hear as Dom/sub frenzy. There seems to be a shelf life for excitement. The same shelf live may exist regarding interest. How many threads have we seen with the thought; "I now in 24/7 in real life - now what?" Well hell, you should have thought of that first!

Why is another story. Some are afraid to go deep within themselves. There are a lot of people who may have a drive to live the lifestyle, but something clicks in after a time that generates guilt that can't be overcome. They leave for fear of going someplace in their mind and within their emotions that they don't want to go. There is a lot of 'rebounding' when this occurs. The battle being fought to be 'normal', versus doing something you enjoy; is ongoing. Rationalized by the hope that the next partner is the 'right' partner, the 'one', leads to a lot of bouncing from one relationship to the next.

It happens not only in the BDSM lifestyle, but every non-mainstream lifestyle. It takes a confident person to live outside society established 'norms'.

Of course, there is another consideration. Sometimes the 'lifestyle' is a convenient excuse for leaving a relationship you just wanted to leave - period.


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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 7:33:43 AM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Why does the lifestyle seem to be a recurrent 'issue' for some people? Is it just an excuse to end a relationship?

It has been my first hand experience that for many, if not most, the 'lifestyle' is more fun and exciting as fantasy versus life. The collective activities of WIITWD are great masturbatory fodder, but after experiencing them first hand, from either side of the flogger, they don't live up to the fantasy. I've seen it referred to hear as Dom/sub frenzy. There seems to be a shelf life for excitement. The same shelf live may exist regarding interest. How many threads have we seen with the thought; "I now in 24/7 in real life - now what?" Well hell, you should have thought of that first!

Why is another story. Some are afraid to go deep within themselves. There are a lot of people who may have a drive to live the lifestyle, but something clicks in after a time that generates guilt that can't be overcome. They leave for fear of going someplace in their mind and within their emotions that they don't want to go. There is a lot of 'rebounding' when this occurs. The battle being fought to be 'normal', versus doing something you enjoy; is ongoing. Rationalized by the hope that the next partner is the 'right' partner, the 'one', leads to a lot of bouncing from one relationship to the next.

It happens not only in the BDSM lifestyle, but every non-mainstream lifestyle. It takes a confident person to live outside society established 'norms'.

Of course, there is another consideration. Sometimes the 'lifestyle' is a convenient excuse for leaving a relationship you just wanted to leave - period.




I look at life, not "lifestyle".

"The bdsm lifestyle" seems to be a shifting set of stereotypes that people use to avoid having to think independently-and it's very convenient to use these to shrug off personal accountability and responsibility.

He/she was not Dom/sub enough...yadda yadda yadda. It's like listening to small children whining about how they were dissapointed with a toy they were given.

I have pretty much zero tolerance for this, since I see it as a lazy cop-out.

Relationships require compromise, cooperation and work. SOME sort of sacrifice is always needed for things to work out. If you approach this sort of dynamic from the viewpoint of "a consumer of goods"-you will pretty much face dissapointment at some point.

People are not commodities.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 7/23/2008 7:34:30 AM >

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 7:49:34 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Seems that you are getting good answers so far, missturbation.

I've observed recently that many cannot seem to live within the world they create for themselves.  For some folks, it comes down to something coming up that they are asked to submit to and, because it is not something they want, they are "struggling with their submission" and so, they pull back.  For some folks, it comes down to them having to step up as a dominant and take responsibility for something other than "get Me a beer, bitch...now."  For many on both sides of the whip, that communication that they vaunt so highly is now required of them. For others, it comes down to being confronted with having to live within the same standards they create for others ... be it honesty, loyalty, not running away from a problem, etc....when the responsibility of living up to them is turned around on them and they are now expected to do what they expect of others.  There are many reasons, many of them as relate-able to vanilla situations as they are to D/s but so many times, at least in wiitwd, the "lifestyle" itself or some aspect of it is the excuse to run rather than to work and cooperate and compromise...as Leatherist noted...and I would add, live up to what you promised you would try to do.  Even if in the end, it is living up to the promise to listen.  To make things work or, if need be, to finish things in the same "giving" way you started. 
_______________________________________________________________

Standards:  They are a fine thing to live by but remember, they are in danger of becoming meaningless when you expect someone to live up to your standards and then fail to do so yourself.  A good example of this:  So many men expect a "Barbie" and forget that they aren't Ken.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 7/23/2008 7:59:57 AM >

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 7:49:44 AM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Hello lovely mist!
Can I offer a "different" point of view?

I am one of the few in the camp, that does not become involved in "casual" or
"play-based" relationships.
In my world, relationships are just that relationships, and some are serious and some are not.
 
Dare I mention the "L" love word here?
I stopped having casual sex and casual relationships about 17 years ago, and I don't miss them.
I am not saying there is anything wrong with them, I am saying for ME, a relationship that is not
based on trust, LOVE and committment is not satisfying.
 
I really don't consider any relationship "serious" that is not based on love, trust and committment.
Were your friends involved in "serious", long term relationships, based on core values
such as: trust, love and committment?
I am just sayin.
 

< Message edited by MzMia -- 7/23/2008 7:53:07 AM >

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 9:16:41 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShadowMster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

All the experiences seem to be pretty much the same. Boy meets girl, they get on, have things in common to the point of one of them saying 'You are everything i ever wanted and more'.
Then boom, all of a sudden the person who has everything they wanted and more calls it quits. The reasons vary but in the main are pretty mundane, stuff that is easily sorted.


i haven't read through the other replies yet so forgive me please if this point of view has come up before. Three points of view actually; first suddenly quitting is not endemic to bdsm only it's endemic in the zeirtgeist, in today's way of life: quitting a job, quitting a marriage for example/
[...]
Now that playing is then leaving the game seems as easy as just whistle blowing.



I realize this is an old thread.  But still wanted to add one more thought to the mix.

Fear:  We're taught by life to be warned by things that sound too good to be true. 
.........................

What happens when you finally get everything, and you're not happy?  How does one rationalize not being happy when they have everythingthey have always wanted?

Well i think retrospection also plays a role. It's like: wow! my soul mate and then maybe a flashback (or two ro more) to another before who did it that way...i know if i am honest i have real abandonment fear and it really takes some bondage to get it through my retrospective brain that i am not going to be abandoned....just left tied up until i feel safe again.


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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 9:30:32 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Seems that you are getting good answers so far, missturbation.

I've observed recently that many cannot seem to live within the world they create for themselves.  For some folks, it comes down to something coming up that they are asked to submit to and, because it is not something they want, they are "struggling with their submission" and so, they pull back.  For some folks, it comes down to them having to step up as a dominant and take responsibility for something other than "get Me a beer, bitch...now."  For many on both sides of the whip, that communication that they vaunt so highly is now required of them. ........

And that is because, just maybe, we learn so much, far far too much from just watching others do it: a kind of Ray Mear's television world, (like we know what it's like to split open a coconut with a staked hand-made machete but we've never been hungry enough or marooned on a desert island to have to do it? Or a Playstation World where we can say: 'At least I can say I have lived!' but actually all we have been doing is pressing the cursor keys?).
i know i learn best when i am on the edge of hunger, and need, and thirsty for it.......


< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 7/23/2008 9:31:15 AM >

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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 12:10:39 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		It's not just BDSM, it happens elsewhere..

It's something I've been struggling with in theatre here in London for some time. Now you'd think theatre in London is pretty much like theatre anywhere else, you know, preparing a text or a play, rehearsing, getting a stage and performances together and going out on stage and performing to an audience. Erm no, theatre is London is all about getting a cast together of people who are prepared to work with each other.

I put out ads, 'walk into fringe theatre'.. Yes, this means you can literally walk in from the street and become an actor or actress and eventually get paid for your performances. You get the text, the training, the rehearsal space, everything.. all you need to do is be there and take part. It really is that simple.

Or it would be. I get e-mails 'send me details' - do what? I get phone calls 'I can't make it Wednesday, how about Thursday afternoon?' I send out copies of the play with a role marked out and they respond 'you want me to read this?' ('No you daft bugger! Rip it up into squares and use it as toilet paper!') I've had 'professional actors' who were extras on the set of Eastenders for three weekends in 1988, the sort of people you see not qualifying for the X Factor. Those that get through get as far as 2 or 3 rehearsals and then disaster strikes - grandmother dies, the Northern Line gets flooded, the car gets stolen, the boss suddenly needs them for a conference in Newport Pagnell, etc.

I've spent three months avoiding people. I mean, I just don't want to jinx anyone. I'd hate to meet someone for coffee only for them to have their house collapse or to jam up the entire London Underground network through meeting the wrong person at the wrong time.

My hackles rise whenever I hear someone talking about 'the lifestyle'. There is no 'lifestyle', just life, and those people considered to be in the 'lifestyle' are just doing what comes naturally and living their own way. All it seems to be to me is a series of stereotypes and of photoimage perfection where everything fits together neatly.

The thing is when everything does fall into place neatly making everything possible this is when some people decide to quit and call it a day. Why?

Welcome to the 'hidden agenda', something left unsaid which is usually never open to discussion. Quite often it's hard to see it coming, but when you do you're never sure and so it comes down to giving someone the benefit of the doubt and further chances, despite having doubts and misgivings yourself.

I usually find that when people talk about 'the lifestyle', a division between BDSM and vanilla they're sometimes the ones who are pretending in one and being themselves in the other. 'BDSM play' isn't just about the floggers and nipple clamps and toyboxes that we all associate, but also the hearts and minds of other people.

Relationships don't only require commitment, hard work and sacrifice, they also require contact and communication. It's the relationship which is the fruitcake onto which the marzipan and icing of BDSM is applied.

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 5:41:42 PM   
RealSub58


Posts: 1073
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

 The only big reason seems to be they are all of a sudden having doubts about the lifestyle. Well i say all of a sudden lol, these people have done this before. Not necessarily to the same person but still the 'lifestyle' seems to become an issue for them every so often.
Why does the lifestyle seem to be a recurrent 'issue' for some people? Is it just an excuse to end a relationship?



~~~ff~~~
When too much emphasis is put on lifestyle rather than on relationship....  IMO, things go south cuz its about lifestyle, not relationship.

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 6:39:07 PM   
AmbrosialWench


Posts: 50
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline 		Perhaps "it is everything they ever wanted and more". But the "it" is the dynamics of bdsm they have desired and seeked. However, they realize their vanilla side is not getting the emotional support they need. There really isn't any reason to tell someone you need more closeness and tenderness in a relationship. If they don't do it on their own, they will not be able to slowly change that aspect of their personality. 

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RE: When enough is not enough! - 7/23/2008 7:20:25 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		I think part of the problem is that people often do not know what they really want.

There is a scene in an old TV show where a woman says something along the lines of:  "Picture the perfect man.  Everything you ever wanted.  Now think about actually meeting that man in real life.  Pretty repulsive, right?"

Something similar might be going on.  They get what they think they want, find out they don't really want it, then break up.



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