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RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/25/2008 7:41:47 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I've found that the only real validation I find to be actual is in acheiving what I set out to do. Were I to use the opinions of others as my exclusive driving force, my life would be a very fickle and unstable place.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/25/2008 7:51:08 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I've found that the only real validation I find to be actual is in acheiving what I set out to do. Were I to use the opinions of others as my exclusive driving force, my life would be a very fickle and unstable place.


Perhaps, but I never said it was exclusive in the least.

I would consider my relationships to be fickle if the opinions of the very select few I considered to be important to me had no impact or effect on me.

Edited to Add : When someone take times out of their life to focus on me and serve me out of respect and admiration, it would be pretty sad of me not to appreciate and take in the sentiment behind such a gesture.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 7/25/2008 7:53:03 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/25/2008 8:00:42 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		It is like learning photography. You learn something from every shot even if it is a complete waste of time and film. So I’m careful when my ego surfaces. An ego can be an anesthetic so you don’t feel the pain of not understanding.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/25/2008 10:11:52 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I've found that the only real validation I find to be actual is in acheiving what I set out to do. Were I to use the opinions of others as my exclusive driving force, my life would be a very fickle and unstable place.


Perhaps, but I never said it was exclusive in the least.

I would consider my relationships to be fickle if the opinions of the very select few I considered to be important to me had no impact or effect on me.

Edited to Add : When someone take times out of their life to focus on me and serve me out of respect and admiration, it would be pretty sad of me not to appreciate and take in the sentiment behind such a gesture.


My point is pretty much about keeping on course. It's fine to appreciate friends.
 
It's not, if you become addicted to sychophantic behavior.
 
Recall that thing about the slave who ran beside the victor in the Roman processionals?
 
Who held the laurel wreath above his head, but kept whispering "Remember, you are not a god?"
 

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/25/2008 10:20:50 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		I understand your point and I appreciate you mentioning it. It's something to think about, but I am confidant enough in my self awareness to be certain that it's not the case.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/25/2008 10:22:09 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I understand your point and I appreciate you mentioning it. It's something to think about, but I am confidant enough in my self awareness to be certain that it's not the case.


Nods,but be aware, I did not write that only for your gratification Rabbit.

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My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/26/2008 6:30:53 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you to CF and SJ for addressing my questions in such an open manner.  I am appreciating all replies.

lovingpet

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/26/2008 6:51:38 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		[/quote]ORIGINAL:  lovingpet
A lot of talk is given to a submissive's growth under the guidance of the dominant.  I would like to hear how submissives/slave can likewise affect a dominant.[/quote]
While things between myself and mine are not equal, they are equivalent. How could I look myself in the mirror every morning knowing that I demanded of her that she face her demons, conquer them, and grow when I was unwilling to do the same?  In fact, mine is actively in charge of at least one serious personality issue of mine and is working on it (quite successfully I might add too *beams with pride*).  There's a whole ton of other internal boundaries that I'm challenging on my own.  These aren't so much around "my sub needs something that's a boundary for me".  In our case, we've been together so long they tend to look more like, "she knows me and here are the places where I have internal scarring that needs to get fixed".  In short, my wife doesn't like to be in charge in general.... that's why she's sub.  But she is a very capable person and when she elects to own a problem, she's perfectly competent to do so.  I trust her with myself and my boundaries just as she trusts me with hers.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/26/2008 7:10:22 AM   
Dari


Posts: 192
Joined: 10/8/2007
Status: offline 		There are lines, and then there are lines.  My hard limits will remain my hard limits, and are never ever going to be crossed.  However, there are things I tend not to do, and things I tend to do, and sometimes for the benefit of my submissive, I'll modify those.  I like the way Calla describes it, since pretty much everything is fluid on any given day.

I'm not sure whether you're looking for "trying new things" or "growing as a Dominant," so I guess I'll address both.

I'll try new things that aren't necessarily things I'm into, if the submissive I'm playing with enjoys them.  How can I expect them to try new things that scare the hell out of them, if I'm not willing to do the same?  Now, I'm not going to just start down the edgeplay path without instruction, research, or something to give me enough knowledge that I don't worry that I'm going to kill the one I'm with.  But for instance - I'm not so much into humiliation.  It's not really my general style.  But I do have a very good friend, the pet of a Dom I've known for years, who gets into it.  And when his Dom lets me play with his toys, well - I add humiliation into the scene, and enjoy the hell out of it.  With that particular person.  It's a line, for me, because when I figure out what makes people tick, sometimes humiliation will break someone, and permanent damage is one of my hard limits.  But with someone I know is into it, who wants it - it can be awesome.  I'm willing to be flexible.

On the other side of things, growing as a Dominant I see more as growing as a person.  My life hasn't always been sunshine and roses (whose has, really?) so I have those broken places inside.  I'm slowly working on healing that, because I won't allow the negative things that have gone before to continue to hold me back from being everything I can be.  With the right people, including my pet, I'm making progress. 

With my pet too, we're exploring things together that we've never done before.  My experience with the lifestyle has been long and somewhat limited - the same sorts of play for a lot of years.  There's still a lot that I don't know, that I want to explore - but then with anything, there are always things you can learn.  I'm of the perspective that when we stop growing in any aspect of our lives, then that's when we've closed our minds to future possibilities.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/27/2008 1:31:16 PM   
neph


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline 		Perhaps not the spirit of the question....

I tried to have a vanilla relationship with someone I loved who was having issues with D/s.  It was not a good thing.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/27/2008 1:47:00 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I have some very serious limits and then some I might be able to modify under the right circumstances.  The right circumstances would be a serious involvement with someone who needs something I have not experienced or really don't have an interest in.  If they present it to me and I research or can change my thoughts on it... it is all good.  How I get to that process is that I respect my submissive and his needs and will consider some things I typically wouldn't because of who he is and knowing that I can trust in him and myself.  The flow of idea's, thoughts and feelings go both ways.  He wouldn't ask for something I would find a hard limit because those things he already knows I will not cross over and anything else is typically in an in general... we shall see.

My submissive can influence me in different ways.  I love him, I love me and I love us.  If I cannot learn something from him, I would get quite bored.  For me, we are more than dominant and submissive and we are a muse of some sort to one another.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/30/2008 8:59:17 PM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		As a Domme I had a no sex rule.  My boys could masturbate, but they were never to touch me unless specifically told to do so.  I broke this rule one time - a birthday treat for myself - but found that my ability to stay in control diminished.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/30/2008 9:08:28 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen
As a Domme I had a no sex rule. 


Hearing things like this always cracks me up.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/30/2008 9:13:18 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		What a wonderful topic.
I never can read enough about "Dominants" limits.
I have a few that I will probably never cross, because I have ZERO
interest in those activities.
I actually have a very few lines, that I might consider crossing with the
right submissive.
 
The funny thing is, I have much more lines in the sand and limits than most of the
submissives I encounter.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 7/30/2008 9:17:20 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/30/2008 9:40:13 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Crossing a line in the sand implies to me some sort of boundary issue or something other than a personal limit and I am going to take the intent of the OP to be a discussion of limits.

I have done so many things that are new with BSB that I can't even keep track, she has never pushed me to do so but oh my god when the woman you love looks up at you and tells you X, Y, or Z is a huge turn on for her, it suddenly makes it at least something I want to give and often it turns into something that is hot for me.  Hell there are STILL things she wants to do for me that I have so far said "I can't go there" but oh god, late at night, alone in bed, some of those can be the hottest.

As for actual "lines in the sand" and ultimatums, well I don't allow wishy washy people into my life.  Even those who simply serve me are strong willed women and BSB is perhaps the first completely independent and self sufficient woman I have ever dated, frankly it freaks me out at times.  We have both thrown a few ultimatums and lines in the sand and more often as not those have been more destructive than any of the so called "violations".  For ME, the reality of making a partnership work, a relationship, means that I can't allow myself some fantasy of anytime I say something that I "must" be right, or that it is always the best course, often yes, but always?  I wasn't born perfect...

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/30/2008 11:04:33 PM   
Skully7000


Posts: 377
Joined: 7/22/2007
Status: offline 		Short of Death and Kids,

I can't think of a thing off hand that I wouldn't do if the situation was right.

so with that said, almost any of my limits are pretty much "lines in the sand" and crossing them and when I'm brave enough(foolish enough?) to step over them I will hopefully do so willingly and ready to deal with said consequences, good or bad.

I also Trust myself enough to know that I over think things and analyze situations to the best of my knowledge and explore them from as many view points as possible before rushing into anything. so even if i miss something... I hope that one of my other "plans if something goes wrong" can be applied to "this" unforseen circumstance.

in the end though, for better or worse: the more time I can spend outside of my comfort zone the more I can grow as a person.

cheers
Skully

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 7/31/2008 5:49:26 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I actually sat back and thought about this question before forming My answer.  Since you asked several questions, I'll try to address each.

Sitting here today, I really have three categories of activities that fall under BDSM where a 'line in the sand' might be related.  I tend to call those hard limits, soft limits, and things I just haven't tried yet.  Some people don't like those terms, but it's usually a way to explain Myself so that people can understand.

When compared with, say, three years ago, a lot of the hard limits have changed.  Skully actually mentioned a couple of Mine, but I add scat into that category as well.  I highly doubt anybody is going to change My mind on those, and I have no desire to change them. 

Your question really comes in when I look back at the hard limit list of three years ago.  It really was quite a bit more extensive back then.  It included things like watersports, electrical play, fire, and a lot of other things that I've found that I enjoy.  The same person who would have told you just a few years back that there was no way in hell I would do those things, now sits here and says I can't wait for My next chance to do them again.

My growth (for lack of a better term) in all of these 'once were hard limit' areas, absolutely belongs to the subs and bottoms that helped Me see each of these things differently.  I certainly can't claim that it was all just ways I worked on Myself.  It was them who encouraged Me to look at things in a different light.  It was them who were willing to participate in an activity when the time was right.  When My mind became a little more open, they were right there with Me.

I consider Myself rather fortunate in the fact that all of the limits that I have crossed have turned out to be really good things for Me.  There was one that had that pesky 'morning after' effect.  That, oh no, was I really ready to handle this and what are the consequences going to be kind of thing.    Even though I had those fears afterward, it was a limit that I certainly wanted to cross, and now is one of My most treasured memories.  It was indescribable.  I might not ever have the opportunity to do it again, but I'm glad I reached out for it when it was in front of Me.

I hope this helped to answer the theme of your thread.  If not, I'll thank you for starting it anyway.  You just helped Me remember some wonderful things in My life, and I'd like to thank you for that.


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The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 8/1/2008 8:27:32 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		You are very welcome LP!

Thank you for your response as it gives a lot of insight into how people change over time.  I am glad your experiments have been so much fun!

I thank everyone who has contributed as I think there have been many viewpoints on this issue.  More is always welcomed!  I have gathered a lot already!

Thanks,
lovingpet

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 8/4/2008 10:58:05 AM   
ArcAngelnow


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/18/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, I have, and it has been a long time in coming that I must end the realtionship I have known for the last 8 years. I made clear in the beginning what I required, and that number one rule has been broken, bent, and ignored repeatedly, with me myself rationalizing and re-classifying each incident as "not quite the final deal breaker"

Terrible pattern to lock into......hard, hard lesson learned.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Crossing the Line in the Sand - 8/4/2008 11:43:17 AM   
DelilahDeb


Posts: 429
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, a limit was crossed; and it proved two things to me.

See, I was in my first session with a sub, and we'd done all our negotiations and such, then had a get-to-know-faces lunch in person before we settled in to a session. And one of my limits is role play. So when, well into the session, sub addresses me as Mommy, I step back to see what's going on. What I identified was going on was that he had dropped deep into subspace, basically trancing out and achieving a hypnotic regression. My limit proved useful because one word was enough to clue me in that he was not in the here and now with me.

My reaction to the incident proved to me that role play of that sort really was a hard limit, AND, that it was useful to have it so. If i'd be accepting of such, I might have caused damage, real harm, in that one scene, and that would, in turn, have harmed me, deeply.

Know thyself. Words for D & S, top & bottom.

Lady Delilah Deb

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--from the Charge of the Goddess, a Wiccan teaching

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Profile   Post #: 40
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