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defiance - 7/27/2008 10:27:13 AM   
tinkerbelle3


Posts: 55
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline
Hi -

I'd like to hear from those of you who identify as submissive or slave; My question is how do you deal with your feelings of defiance. (I suppose that makes the assumption that you feel defiant every now and again.) If you do, how do you deal with it? Meaning, how do you communicate to your Dom when you're feeling this way. How does he accept it, do you question your submission when you're feeling defiant etc etc.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 10:46:05 AM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		There are times when I feel very irritated with Daddy for one reason or another.  After 5 years of being together, it's just bound to happen once and again.  When I feel that way, I try to keep my speech in check as I have an old and bad habit of verbal assassination when I get too mad.  I tend to talk to my nilla girlfriends when I am irked at Him, and then I talk to Him and tell Him that I'm feeling the way I am and that I don't like it, and that I need to talk so we can fix it.

There was one time that I really lost any sense of submission with Him and blew up badly.  I hated it and He just looked at me while I pitched a phukking fit that I hadn't done since before my divorce.  When I was done yelling about why I was pissed, I started yelling about not feeling submissive.  (go figure)  I just wanted someone to regain control of the situation and it didn't seem like it was going to be me.  I got into His "personal space" and wouldn't move, so He grabbed me by my hair, yanked my arms behind my back, and asked if that is what I wanted.  It was, actually, and we ended up having wild, hot, make-up sex.  For that time in my life, I needed Him to help me find my "place" with Him again because I was so angry and so out of sorts.  I had my "freak out" with Him, where I yelled and threw a tizzy, and He got me back in check, which is what I wanted and needed.  Usually, talking will do the trick, so I recommend open, safe, honest communication.

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to tinkerbelle3)
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RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 10:57:29 AM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		There are times that I am defiant, plain and simple. I don't know if there will ever be a period of time that I can always control my impulses enough to suck up every contrary feeling I ever have. I doubt it. I try to be respectful, and am in my place 95% of the time, but truth be told I tend to attract men who like a little fire now and then (otherwise they sure wouldn't like me).

If I were out and out defiant all the time, sassy and bossy and refusing to follow commands, then there'd be no real point (to me) in submitting. I'm a strong-willed woman and can be an attention whore, but I don't need or want attention enough to act irrationally to get it. I simply am who I am.

Submitting (to me) means that I have to overcome myself and move past these definat feelings. It took a long time to get good at it but fortunately I had some patient Sirs who directed me in positive ways, and who also let me act up from time to time, giving me advice and lessons along the way.

(in reply to tinkerbelle3)
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RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 11:19:26 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I generally find it's best to communicate the feelings, identify the source if possible, and then find ways to either alleviate the source, or remove any control those feelings may have.

Do most question their submission when they are experiencing something less than ultimate perfect submission that the cyber world told them they should?  Absolutely.

But if you can't openly express the experiences you are having to your owner, then either you got into the relationship KNOWING and ACCEPTING that and you're fine with it, or you fooled yourself into thinking you would be fine with it and ultimately are not really compatible.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to batshalom)
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RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 11:46:36 AM   
silkncarol


Posts: 318
Status: offline 		You do have to communicate with your partner..at least they will know where your feelings are coming from and it doesn't smack of passive/aggressive behaviour or manipulation thru emotional blackmail....

Sometimes all it took to knock the defiance out of me was being reminded...."it's an uneven playing field"....or asked "if i wanted to do a vanilla relationship?"......they both cut to the meat of the issue....i want and need the D/s in a relationship.  I have a dear friend who has been a slave for more than 30 years, offer me this piece of advice that i think of often...."suck it up girfriend!"  it makes me smile, but at times it's SO true. 



_____________________________

We attract hearts by the qualities we display. We retain them by the qualities we possess.

Shoes can change your life................. Cinderella

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 12:43:43 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		LOL... most of the time a dominant knows when you are feeling defant.  They just may not know why.  It is up to you to share that with your dominant in a way that is acceptable to the dominant and not diminishing of yourself or the reasons for feeling such.  I am not an advocate of holding things in and letting them build to something larger, but in such cases when you know you feel defiant, temper yourself.  Look at what is happening and the big picture.  Are you feeling trapped or taken advantage of... are you stressed... are you being treated in a way that makes you feel you are not being cared for or seen or respected?  Is there a real basis for what you feel or are you feeding off of something else and are you feeling good physically?  Are you having doubts about whether you can actually do this... whatever that is?  It could be many other things factoring in, these are just some that I could think of when my morning brain. 

Tempering things, taking a good look at it all and then presenting it to your dominant is the best way I feel that someone can address it all.  But in the heat of a moment, sometimes one doesn't do that.  It is hard to temper it all especially if we have allowed it to build up or are confused about it and why.  Communication is key and also the foundation for which you built the relationship in the first place.  Remember the love or emotion that brought you to the place of submitting to this person and let that flow a little.  Sometimes a hug and bonding and reassurance is all that is needed.

(in reply to silkncarol)
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RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 12:54:30 PM   
joyinslavery


Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		It usually involves the local PD.  

Have fun. 

_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to tinkerbelle3)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 1:29:13 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tinkerbelle3
My question is how do you deal with your feelings of defiance. (I suppose that makes the assumption that you feel defiant every now and again.) If you do, how do you deal with it? Meaning, how do you communicate to your Dom when you're feeling this way.

I wouldn't say I really feel "defiant."  To me, that indicates I feel like breaking His rules or disobeying Him.  I don't have those feelings.  I have a much more frequent problem of having a hard time controlling my tongue sometimes.  I don't lash out at Him personally but there are times when something upsets me more than it should and I go on a rant.  This is usually something to do with bank statements, being late, other drivers, and so forth.  These are things that push my buttons easily and I tend to get verbal and upset.  Not AT Him, just within His earshot.  He'll let me rant for awhile until He's heard enough and then He'll quietly and calmly tell me to stifle.
quote:

How does he accept it, do you question your submission when you're feeling defiant etc etc.

He usually accepts it up to a point and then, as I said above, patiently tells me to shut it.  Just a couple nights ago there was just such an incident.  We had tickets for the BB King/Willie Nelson concert and when we got there, we realized we had been sold a seat that didn't exist.  One seat was at the very end of a row and there was a "handicapped" spot beside it (which we had not requested) and there wasn't any seat there.  We inquired as to what would be done about this and they basically told us to just scoot down one seat into someone else's seat until they came and wanted us to move.  Great solution! 

Anyway, I ended up sitting in someone else's seat on pins and needles waiting for someone to yell at me to move.  Large crowds make me uneasy and with this added stress plus the scorching heat, I was not a happy camper.  I wanted Master to fix it by "making" the event staff get a folding chair or something.  He was laid-back about it (as He is about everything) and said to just wait that it would work out OK.  Time went on and a couple arrived and they ended up letting me stay in one of their seats and they scooted down one more into someone else's territory.  When some other nearby ticketholders came, I was beginning to get more stressed out, just knowing I was going to have to get up right when the concert was starting.  I kept on and on, mumbling under my breath, upset that nothing was being done until Master finally looked at me and said "Set-tle!"  I could tell by His tone that He'd had all He was gonna listen to.  I did "settle" and it ended up being just fine.  Neither of us ever had to move.  He handled that like He handles everything I get all high-strung about.  He listened awhile then told me to can it.  And, as usual, it all worked out like He thought it would.

I did feel badly about being so upset and about Him having to finally tell me to stop my behavior.  It doesn't make me feel "unsubmissive," it just makes me feel a little embarrassed that sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees.  I'm way too emotional and moody.  It's something I try to get a handle on but some days it just doesn't work.  It's not a question of dedication or obedience or submission, just that I need to chill alot more.................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to tinkerbelle3)
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RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 2:42:17 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Talk to him about it. If he's pushing me too hard and too fast that I'm getting anxious or angry, he needs to know that. He also needs to know what else is going on in my life that could be causing this.

By the time I'm getting defiant, I'm on a knife edge between sobbing uncontrollably and yelling at the top of my lungs. Neither of which are good for me, so it's always better if we talk about it first.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 3:19:34 PM   
slaveforsure


Posts: 17
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline 		I think every submissive and even slave for that matter feels defiant at some point in time, the most important part of handling it well is recognizing that it's happening and accepting that it's perfectly ok.
Most of the time when the defiance happens to me it's because I’m stressed in other regards of my life (work, family, school, friends, etc) and any one little thing not going perfect in my M/s relationship just sets me off.  The first few times it happened I just felt overwhelmed and frustrated because I wasn’t supposed to be defiant – I was supposed to be his perfect little slave, always happy, always pleasing, and always submissive. It took a while to realize that I’m not perfect and he didn’t expect me to be – life can be stressful, he understands that.
When I didn’t understand why I was feeling the way I was I would lash out at him to get a reaction – to get him to put me back in my place – essentially I wanted him to fix me for me, to make me feel submissive again. I realized that’s pretty ineffective. Now when I recognize this happening I take my space as to not lash out in an unhealthy manner and devote my energies to cleaning, cooking, shopping or other servitude type duties. When I feel better I’ll return to my place at his feet and he’ll ask me what’s wrong (as someone else pointed out Master’s are pretty intuitive and can usually tell when something is wrong with their sub or slave) If we’re not together I’ll journal about it – either way we talk about it and resolve the issue as best we can – if play is something I need he usually can tell that too and will do his best to give me what I need in order to make me feel better.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 3:38:57 PM   
mbes


Posts: 465
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: offline 		"Verbal assassination" I like that one!
I ask myself one simple question---- "Did you really want 'fair'?" That usually answers any other questions I have satisfactorily.

(in reply to slaveforsure)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 4:18:55 PM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline 		It's amazing that we all lead such very different lives and have different dynamics, yet we all seem to go through similiar situations at one time or another.    Just like DesFIP, when I get to that point, I'm between sobbing uncontrollably or raising my voice.   Sometimes a look or a stern voice is all I need.  Other times, I've had my hair pulled hard to make sure I was looking directly at Him and my arms forced behind my back and pushed to my knees to get my attention.  

Communication is the key (to most everything it seems).  However, at times, it's more difficult to put into words until it all comes to a point. 

(in reply to mbes)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 6:43:48 PM   
Zechriel


Posts: 308
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Good evening!
There are times where I want Daddy to correct me.. like if I am feeling pouty or hesitant on purpose. Then I will pout or growl and he knows that I am playing and want him to be firmer and stricter. But then there are other times where I am frustrated or hurt or whatever that I cannot verbalize. (I have a very bad habit of not telling him things about what is wrong or what is worrying me so that I will not bother him or make him stressed in return) When this happens we used to go round and round and I would want to run away but we settled on a system of me stamping my foot and kinda bouncing in place. You know when you are really irritated and a child kinda bounces "noooo"?? If I do that then he knows I something is bothering me and will settle down to talk about it.
  But as a Daddy's girl I am allowed to be defiant and bratty up to a point. Do not ask me what that point is because I have not crossed it or been punished for it yet. yet-I said yet, ::laughs::

Love,
Zechriel
   Daddy/Master Lawrence's Baby Girl 

(in reply to kallisto)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 7:18:47 PM   
opposingtwilight


Posts: 684
Joined: 6/13/2008
Status: offline 		When I'm struggling with something I tend to either babble like an idiot or get really quiet. If I'm really quiet, then something is really wrong. For me, defiance is an inner struggle more than an outer one. I have really only ever "lost it" a couple of times and even then it was like I'd mutter something like, Okay I -GOT- it, now leave me alone. Thats about as defiant as I seem to get.

_____________________________


(in reply to Zechriel)
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RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 8:19:04 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		I'm defiant quite often and am usually spanked for it.  It's a part of the roleplay between Sir and myself. Of course, I've always thought it fun to pick on Doms.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to tinkerbelle3)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 10:27:11 PM   
brat4fun


Posts: 47
Joined: 4/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight
When I'm struggling with something I tend to either babble like an idiot or get really quiet. If I'm really quiet, then something is really wrong. For me, defiance is an inner struggle more than an outer one.


I tend to get quiet and "shut down"... usually when there's so much going on that I can't process anymore.  If someone tries to get me to interact or have a conversation at that point, I tend to get rather snarky.

(Please bear with me, this is a pretty long set-up.) The other night my Sir and I had gotten home from my first time meeting his family.  Things went well there, but I was pretty wiped out and glad to be back at Sir's place and alone with him.  We'd just finished watching a show on TV when he told me to get dressed to go out... he noticed my hesitation and asked if I was tired.  I answered, truthfully, that while I wasn't tired I was feeling rather "lazy".  Not exactly what I was feeling, but the closest word I could latch onto at the time.  He laughed and told me that I couldn't be lazy all the time and to go get dressed.  So... into skirt and heels go I, with some Tylenol taken (in the hopes that the headache I thought was coming on wouldn't) and my handy-dandy earplugs in my pocket just in case.

The first club we went to was so crowded we couldn't even find a parking space, so we went off to an area of town where there were several places close together.  We found a parking spot and went into the second place that night... it was VERY crowded as well, and loud... my earplugs were in within the first two minutes.  (I'm really not much of a club person.)  We couldn't find a seat, Sir noticed the ear plugs, and he agreed it was too loud and crowded.  We tried one more place, but didn't even make it past the door before deciding that it wasn't going to be any better there.

As we were leaving the parking lot, Sir asked me a question... don't recall what it was, but I remember that I was trying to answer but he kept interrupting me.  At that point I just snapped and raised my voice (didn't shout, exactly, but raised my voice).  Sir stopped talking and confronted my behavior right then and there.  Nothing drastic, but enough of a swift mood change to get my attention, and he made me rephrase what I'd said into something more civilized and in a more polite tone of voice.

It's always seems to be little piddly stuff that gets to me, and generally when I'm already stressed... like being out of sorts and then going from one loud, crowded environment to the next.

I'm lucky to have found a Sir that will take my little "blips" and calmly correct them, rather than exploding at me and making me feel even worse.

lil Aidan

(in reply to opposingtwilight)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 11:16:05 PM   
MsLaylasone


Posts: 10
Joined: 6/25/2008
Status: offline 		Pant, Pant, Pant... There are times I am defiant so I can get exactly that type of reaction. I want to get into trouble. I want my Mistress to reassert herself overme and "reclaim her ownership on me" and remind me completely of my place. I really want her to be aggressive with me pulling my hair back forcing me into the proper kneeling position and making me hers totally and completely once again, leaving no doubt in my min that I am hers Tat is precisely why I am disobedient at times.

Mslaylasone 

quote:

ORIGINAL: kallisto

It's amazing that we all lead such very different lives and have different dynamics, yet we all seem to go through similiar situations at one time or another.    Just like DesFIP, when I get to that point, I'm between sobbing uncontrollably or raising my voice.   Sometimes a look or a stern voice is all I need.  Other times, I've had my hair pulled hard to make sure I was looking directly at Him and my arms forced behind my back and pushed to my knees to get my attention.  

Communication is the key (to most everything it seems).  However, at times, it's more difficult to put into words until it all comes to a point. 

(in reply to kallisto)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: defiance - 7/27/2008 11:17:19 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLaylasone

Pant, Pant, Pant... There are times I am defiant so I can get exactly that type of reaction. I want to get into trouble. I want my Mistress to reassert herself overme and "reclaim her ownership on me" and remind me completely of my place. I really want her to be aggressive with me pulling my hair back forcing me into the proper kneeling position and making me hers totally and completely once again, leaving no doubt in my min that I am hers Tat is precisely why I am disobedient at times.

Mslaylasone 

quote:

ORIGINAL: kallisto

It's amazing that we all lead such very different lives and have different dynamics, yet we all seem to go through similiar situations at one time or another.    Just like DesFIP, when I get to that point, I'm between sobbing uncontrollably or raising my voice.   Sometimes a look or a stern voice is all I need.  Other times, I've had my hair pulled hard to make sure I was looking directly at Him and my arms forced behind my back and pushed to my knees to get my attention.  

Communication is the key (to most everything it seems).  However, at times, it's more difficult to put into words until it all comes to a point. 



Gods, I would boot someone like you to the curb immediately for yanking my chain like that.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to MsLaylasone)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: defiance - 7/28/2008 7:23:32 AM   
MsLaylasone


Posts: 10
Joined: 6/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLaylasone

Pant, Pant, Pant... There are times I am defiant so I can get exactly that type of reaction. I want to get into trouble. I want my Mistress to reassert herself overme and "reclaim her ownership on me" and remind me completely of my place. I really want her to be aggressive with me pulling my hair back forcing me into the proper kneeling position and making me hers totally and completely once again, leaving no doubt in my min that I am hers Tat is precisely why I am disobedient at times.

Mslaylasone 

quote:

ORIGINAL: kallisto

It's amazing that we all lead such very different lives and have different dynamics, yet we all seem to go through similiar situations at one time or another.    Just like DesFIP, when I get to that point, I'm between sobbing uncontrollably or raising my voice.   Sometimes a look or a stern voice is all I need.  Other times, I've had my hair pulled hard to make sure I was looking directly at Him and my arms forced behind my back and pushed to my knees to get my attention.  

Communication is the key (to most everything it seems).  However, at times, it's more difficult to put into words until it all comes to a point. 



Gods, I would boot someone like you to the curb immediately for yanking my chain like that.


Leatherist,
    I didn't say, I did that all of the time. I am definitely not a S.A.M. There are just sometimes when a sub is a little naughty just so s/he can get that extra bit they want or desire deep inside. I think you might have misunderstood me a bit. One of the things I enjoy most is being completely dominated by my Mistress and she has a hard time in learning how to do that. It is part of our dynamic. Most of the time, I am a very well behaved slave, but there are times when my Mistress likes to have me jolt her a little, I can tell that she wants me to push her a little giving her that excuse. As she is learning to be more dominant I am backing down a bit on the prodding giving less and less direction as she gains in the experience she needs. I just wish that there were other dommes in this immediate area she could learn from so I would not have to do that, I don't feel comfortable in some ways. Please, don't automatically judge me on the basis of one post without knowing the dynamic going on behind it. I was merely stating it from the dynamic of what my current relationship is. If I were with a more experienced and stronger Dominant I probably would never have the need or never "step out of line" as our needs would be always meet. Sometimes my Mistress needs a little prodding as she is so new and unsure of herself. It helps her become a better dominant. Although I still must say I like the feeling of being completely owned, but that is me. I think if you knew me and worked with me you would not want to "kick me to the curb" as I would like to think I am very responsive and real as a person and a sub.

Mslaylasone

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: defiance - 7/28/2008 7:25:51 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		My reaction would have been different if you would have said that to begin with-instead of coming across like an hng with his dick in his hand.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 7/28/2008 7:26:14 AM >

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to MsLaylasone)
Profile   Post #: 20
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