RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (Full Version)

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Coupleofwhats -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/28/2008 10:08:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

I've heard a great deal about "Find out what your local laws are" but very little about how to find that information. I have set my favorite boy the task of searching the internet to see if there is a site that lists the legal definitions for Prostitution and Sexual Contact for our state. If he doesn't come up with an answer, I may just break down and ask a friend of mine where I can find the information. He used to work Vice Squad, so if anyone would know, my cop friend would!


I found the NYS prostitution laws on the internet with Google.
I don't know what the deal is with other states, but the law here is extremely vague. And the current climate is none-too-friendly to sex work. It doesn't much effect me in terms of screening, as most of my interests aren't the sort of things that a cop would try to bust someone on (I don't do strap-on play or offer nude sessions.) But several houses of domination have gone down over the past few months. When I worked for one, the cops actually came to visit one night: it definitely helped me make up my mind to go out on my own.

A certain amount of it is a class/wealth issue, as well. Most of the women who get busted for pro domination charge little, routinely advertise on free boards like Craigslist and do "grunt work" sessions (lots of strap-on; jerking people off.) The other at-risk group are those who are in-house: they tend to be younger, more naive (many in NYC are made to believe that strap-on is not illegal), and can get swept away in a group bust if just ONE person says the wrong thing to an undercover cop.




LadyBrigidBalard -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/28/2008 10:16:54 PM)

Every state has different laws, and there are many ways to find a scene friendly attorney to help with these questions.  I don't know of any state that says strap-on play is legal, and personally, though it's one of my favorite things, I reserve it for private play only.  There's too much at risk, and the vast majority of my clients are willing to pay more and receive only legal play, leaving me to sleep well at night.




MamaDomme1 -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/29/2008 6:13:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: singsomelyrical

MamaDomme1,  thanks so much for answering.  I guess I have a few more questions for you.  When you knew you wanted to do this type of work, how did you start?  Did you meet with a lawyer?  Was there another Domme in your area who could get feedback from?  I'm already involved in the local community so that's a big plus.  What do you think about working out of your home verses renting a play place?

Thanks in advance for any insight you can lend.



Sending you mail on the other side~~




joyinslavery -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/31/2008 11:15:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

YES! The blacklist is very helpful, especially for someone who is new.  




A post in another thread reminded me of yours. 

'Blacklists' are a violation of CollarMe TOS but I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that some people here participate in such a stupid thing.    

Have fun.     




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/31/2008 11:33:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joyinslavery

A post in another thread reminded me of yours. 

'Blacklists' are a violation of CollarMe TOS but I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that some people here participate in such a stupid thing.    

Have fun.     


The type of blacklist they're talking about here has nothing to do with CollarMe TOS. It is a listing of "clients" that have proven to be bad news in a person-to-person environment... and as much as we'd like to pretend that they're not necessary, I have met enough dangerous folks without being a professional domina that I wouldn't want to go into business without several folks who have already been there and who can advise on which clients may be more than a woman can handle without a separate security detail.

Speaking of security -- do any of the pros here have someone hired or on retainer for on-site security? If not, how do you handle security issues if they come up?

CFB




Leatherist -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/31/2008 11:35:55 AM)

Most of the pros I know of in the area have "bouncers". Usually in the next room, or very near by. And if the client gets any funny ideas, soon finds himself in a world of hurt that was NOT negotiated.

Unless you are a black belt-working alone is VERY dangerous.




RedMagic1 -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/31/2008 12:11:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
The type of blacklist they're talking about here has nothing to do with CollarMe TOS.

Yes. Same word, different concept.  Think of casinos sharing facepics of blackjack card counters.  "Bad for business" is a more objective assessment than "Bad for any possible relationship with anyone ever because I think he sucks."




LadyHibiscus -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/31/2008 12:15:44 PM)

Yes, we used to have a private list of clients who consistently did not show up for appointments, cancelled at the last minute, were scary/dangerous/creepy, smelled bad, whatever.  




RedMagic1 -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/31/2008 12:20:49 PM)

Oh.  I, uh, finally understand what you meant when you told me I was at the top of your list.




Leatherist -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/31/2008 12:25:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Yes, we used to have a private list of clients who consistently did not show up for appointments, cancelled at the last minute, were scary/dangerous/creepy, smelled bad, whatever.  


When I used to do sca merchanting years ago-the merchants had a "flake list" of people who wrote bad checks or pulled shit like chargebacks on thier credit cards. So some ass would come in and burn one merchant, and the next event, everyone demanded cash of  "sir asshat the third".

Which pissed these people off no end-but irresponsibility carries a cost. [;)]




Lynnxz -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/31/2008 12:34:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW



The type of blacklist they're talking about here has nothing to do with CollarMe TOS. It is a listing of "clients" that have proven to be bad news in a person-to-person environment... and as much as we'd like to pretend that they're not necessary, I have met enough dangerous folks without being a professional domina that I wouldn't want to go into business without several folks who have already been there and who can advise on which clients may be more than a woman can handle without a separate security detail.

Speaking of security -- do any of the pros here have someone hired or on retainer for on-site security? If not, how do you handle security issues if they come up?

CFB



Exactly. My 'blacklist' has nothing to do with collarme at all. I'm fairly certain joy didn't read the thread, and just picked up on a key word.

If I get a 'creepy' vibe from someone, I will hire any of several friends of mine to drive me to the appointment, and wait in the car. Some of them are army guys, one is a bouncer, and my favorite 'Security' is a freaking enourmous teddy bear of a man- scary as hell, but the nicest person you'd ever meet.

Most of the time I do work alone,  but usually I am armed.

Quick note here: -Always- turn down the guys that make a point about wanting you to NOT have a driver or security.  Creepers..




Emperor1956 -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/31/2008 12:54:34 PM)

FR:   I have counselled several professional Dominants in their business and legal matters -- from novices to some of the most famous "names" in the business.  Here's a bit of what I used to get paid handsomely for, for free (I'm home recovering from another damn lithotripsy, so put My generosity down to boredom and Vicodin):

1.  But first, an aside (hey, its free fucking advice, you can indulge me!).  Why assume competence?   Do you know how many resturants fail within a year after opening?   Do you know how many "business consultants" never have a paying client?   Lack of ability doesn't stop people from making poor career choices anywhere else, why should it be a factor here?

2.  Aside number 2:  Becoming a pro Domme is NOTHING like opening a bar and whoever said that should just shut up and read once in a while.  (If you need a point by point comparison, I could give it to you.  Suffice it to say there is NO business insurance available in the USA that covers what a pro does, so that entire "helpful" discussion should be discarded).

3.  Which brings me to the most important issue of business advice:  Do you have the skills to run your own business?  Are you a self starter?  Are you a networker?  Look, being a professional Dominant in many ways is not that different that being a freelance insurance salesperson (except most of the Dominas I know are more pleasant).  I don't care how well you can wield a flogger, or how adept you are at the psychological nuances of humiliation, if you don't have clients, you ain't gonna eat.

4.  If you do not have these skills, and you are still drawn to this career, you had best affiliate with an experienced professional and learn from her.  There are many different business arrangements that are available -- from actual partnership/co-ownership, to an established "house" that will take you on, to being a freelancer who pays a percentage of her earnings to an established professional in exchange for referrals, space, etc.

5.  About the law:  I'm not as 'het up' on learning every nuance of the law in your jurisdiction (pretty odd, coming from a lawyer, you say?  NO -- read on).  The fact is that what professional dominants do is, like virtually every other legal worker in the sex industry, RIGHT UNDER the line that gets you busted -- and if someone in power wants you busted, they'll lower the line to cover your conduct and get you.   Yes, you need a competent business advisor which may be a lawyer, and yes, he/she can give you broad strokes about the law.  But in fact, you can never totally insulate your self from legal problems and still run the business.   (And by the way, having 'your favorite boy' peruse the law on the web is -- if he is not trained in the law -- about as effective as having him go on the web and research "infected appendix".  Good luck when it needs to come out!) 

6.  What IS effective in terms of running your business cleanly is having good relationships with relevant law enforcement persons in your community.  Ladies, may I ask how many of you count a local police officer (of some stripe) as a friend, business acquaintance or perhaps even a client?   Virtually every professional I've worked with had some sort of tie to authority to help her negotiate the tricky parts (or at least to warn her when the mood was shifting and her business might be in jeopardy). 
I don't know that you need a "bouncer" per se, but some muscle and some connections never hurt. 

7.  Finally, a sad truth about prosecutions of sex-related business:  VIRTUALLY EVERY ONE I'VE EVER SEEN, from full out criminal charges to the much more common zoning ordinance prosecutions, CAME FROM A NASTY SNITCH WHO WAS A RIVAL OR A DISAFFECTED CLIENT.   In Chicago we've had a spate of zoning prosecutions against D/s clubs which have been pretty well traced back to a prominent, yet often ostracized, 'Dominant' in our community.   I've represented several women who were "turned in" by rival professional dommes in their towns.  I've also represented some who were turned in by former customers who sought to "get even" for some perceived slight.

GOOD LUCK.

E.




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/31/2008 1:26:22 PM)

Wow -- Thanks so much, Emperor -- that's a good bit to chew on... I know about having someone in your own community turning in "competition" -- I walked that legal gauntlet as a midwife, when one of the locals thought she could garner more business by closing down the nearby birth centers and private midwives. We had 2 years where nobody could -breathe- without getting a citation over something, until someone in the health department figured out who was starting the complaints and diffused the mess (several of us had friends in the health department that we went to when the citations started falling like February snow off Lake Ontario).

CFB




Lynnxz -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/31/2008 2:52:25 PM)

Emperor, that's a brilliant post, thank you so much for taking the time!




Coupleofwhats -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (7/31/2008 3:37:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

Speaking of security -- do any of the pros here have someone hired or on retainer for on-site security? If not, how do you handle security issues if they come up?

CFB



I rent space in commercial studios set up for BDSM play. There are a number of other people in the facilities-- other ladies, the receptionist, male slaves -- so I don't feel unsafe. If something happened, there are plenty of people to hear me yell.

If I do a long-distance outcall, I have a giant driver who's a former Marine.

For short-distance outcalls, I go alone, but screen the heck out of them first. And make sure they know that I have their name, address, etc, and that someone knows who they are/where I am and expects to hear from me at a certain time.

Asking for referrals is also a good preventitive idea. (Plus, it's amusing when they get all freaked out because they think Mistress So-and-so will be angry that they're sessioning with someone else.)

I haven't had any problems. *Knock on wood* Usually, I find that the creeps tell on themselves. They often try to get you to do the session in your apartment (under the guise of wanting you to keep the entire tribute, rather than having to pay for rental space.) Some ladies DO session from their private residence... but my experience in the sex industry is that there are always going to be guys who become obsessed with you: the last thing you want is to have led them directly to your home.




mistressadj -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (8/4/2008 9:24:30 AM)

Emperor1956 no longer has this profile...but does anyone know how to reach him? If so, please ask him to contact me...I would like to talk to him about legalities of the pro world, if he is still taking clients.

(Mistress) April




MsStarlett -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (8/4/2008 9:36:04 AM)

I keep forgetting to get back to this thread.  Glad it popped up again.  My boy found that the Tennessee laws are deliberately vague.  Prostitution is basically "Any sexual contact that is done for compensation."  [8|]  "Sexual Contact" is any action that is considered to be arousing by one or more participants.  Basically, if you so much as hold your date's hand and he takes you out to dinner - You're a Prostitute if the DA doesn't like you.

I'm glad I wasn't seriously considering doing this.




MsSaskia -> RE: How to start as a Pro Domme/Mistress? (8/4/2008 11:33:06 AM)

I met with my attorney when I started out as an indie pro and have checked in with him every now and then over the past 11-12 years. I met with him again over the weekend, letting him know I keep a close eye on the Criminal Code for our State and check every other month to make sure it hasn't changed, and let him know that since I wasn't entirely sure about strapon, I hadn't been doing it or allowing it at my house of domination.  

He hauled out his books and got on the computer and checked the exact language for prostitution in exactly the same place I'd been looking and the language for what constitutes sexual activity was crystal clear and does not include foreign objects being inserted anywhere.  Whew!  I'm still not going to be advertising it, but it's good to know that it'd be one less thing to prosecute for if a DA here decided the Wild West doesn't need to be quite so wild.




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