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HeavansKeeper -> A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 7:25:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

I find this question trivial, and greet it with impatience that's borne of a lot of other, in my perception, trivial threads on the Mistress boards in the past month or so. I understand that people are new and go through learning phases, that everything won't appeal to me, but I sorely miss the rich, thought-provoking exchange of ideas we had going.

End complaining.

Mss


This post reminded me of a thread I wanted to start not long ago.

Do you feel the growing acceptance of "deviant" sexual behavior is good or bad for the D/s community?




undergroundsea -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 7:34:26 PM)

I think it brings individual and collective benefit the way it has for homosexuality as the taboo against it lessened: more open attitudes towards sexuality, greater freedom for persons to explore and express their sexuality, greater social acceptance, and potential for broadening the pool.

Cheers,

Sea




Lockit -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 7:47:37 PM)

I was first considered a heretic... now a deviant... lol  I guess there is room for a heretic deviant.  It takes all kinds and I expect that.  Good or bad for the community... I don't know.  I guess it is how one looks at it.  I think I will look at it as a pain in the tail end in ways, but the more accepted what we do becomes, the less struggle we will have and less threat.

Currently in a custody dispute or some legal situation, we face a threat of exposure and being looked at as deviant or mentally ill.  As things change we won't see as much of the unfair that can result in these situations.  It is like a number of things that used to be looked at differently than they are now.  So I can see room for some good coming out of it.  But change isn't easy and it can be a real birthing process, the pains will eventually subside, but for a time... they really suck. 




HeavansKeeper -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 7:55:05 PM)

As soon as I posted the idea, I realized that I'm preaching to the choir.

I struggle to think up when that sort of publicity could be a bad thing. I suppose when these casually kinky couples (I was going to do those three with K's, but that would be like Krusty's Komedy Korner...) take it too far, and people get hurt, it becomes bad publicity.

Can anyone help be the devil's advocate and see where increased exposure of BDSM inspired acts, practiced by those unaware of power exchange dynamics, becomes a bad thing for the D/s community?




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 8:03:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

This post reminded me of a thread I wanted to start not long ago.

Do you feel the growing acceptance of "deviant" sexual behavior is good or bad for the D/s community?


I'm of mixed feelings on this. I am still a freak, even among the freaks, and I'm fine with that. I think that greater awareness is good -- it keeps young adults like my daughter from hating themselves because of their unusual desires. On the other hand, it also opens the door to greater scrutiny from a world that still fears us more than it appreciates us, and that really doesn't -understand- us at all. This was brought home to me in a very intimate way at my daughter's high-school graduation. She'd been living with us for a while, and her dad came for the graduation. She had already turned 18, and was working a job that she loved, but had to wait for until she was at the age of consent. Her dad knew everything about my 'oddities' since before we married. I couldn't consider marrying someone and not having him know exactly what I was, and my history. When he came for graduation, he said something that blew me away. I thought, after 13 years of marriage and an extremely amicable and friendly divorce, that he accepted and understood me and my choices. When he came down for the graduation, he went around with our daughter, met her friends and her fiance, went to where she worked... I asked him why he wasn't more shocked. His response sort of floored me... He said that he knew I was weird, and that he'd known that Ari was going to be weird, too, and that she was too stifled with them, so she was better off with me, because even though he thought it was kind of sick and scary, even freaks should get to become all the way who they are. It was then that I realized that knowledge doesn't necessarily imply understanding, though it does sometimes bring a measure of acceptance.

Calla Firestorm




Lockit -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 8:08:57 PM)

Umm... how about... you have a mother with a heart condition and she wouldn't understand why you beat a butt or talk dirty?  Or when your um's get old enough to crash the munches or parties you go to?

Okay in all seriousness... I can see where a lot more bad publicity could take place with people not knowing what they are doing, cause serious harm and make it to the news.  As it is, people act like they know more than they know and act on it and that could increase.  I can see how that could turn into a nightmare.




HeavansKeeper -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 8:23:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Umm... how about... you have a mother with a heart condition and she wouldn't understand why you beat a butt or talk dirty?  Or when your um's get old enough to crash the munches or parties you go to?

Okay in all seriousness... I can see where a lot more bad publicity could take place with people not knowing what they are doing, cause serious harm and make it to the news.  As it is, people act like they know more than they know and act on it and that could increase.  I can see how that could turn into a nightmare.


Edge play comes to mind... Rape play, kidnapping, breath/needle/knife play... I can see how a couple quickly ramps up to those, and without the interest of discussion, comparing notes, and watching demos, there are many things that can go wrong. Even being on CollarMe for a few short months, I've learned to see kinky acts from multiple angles.

I don't think light bondage or oral sex is going to give D/s a bad rap, but a busted session of Hooker-play or a broken jaw from a hearty face slapping will certainly set "us" back a few years.




katie978 -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 8:39:54 PM)

  I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that it will lure only moderately kinky people into the lifestyle.

With the advent of boundless internet porn, I imagine that there are loads of people who read about something, get hooked on the fantasy, and try and do something ridiculously stupid that they've only read about. If they had been dedicated and in the lifestyle, presumably all the warnings, or someone they knew would be able to talk them out of it.

People who wouldn't have previously considered doing kinky shit are now going to try inverted suspension shibari or knifeplay, and other, only moderately kinky people are going to get hurt because being kinky is suddenly mainstream and desirable in a partner.

  Being young, I've been approached by many "Doms" who have read about this or that and suddenly want to cheat on their girlfriend's and do breathplay. Breathplay isn't for the faint-hearted or the ignorant, yet loads of blundering idiots who read about it or saw it on House or something are trying it.

  Granted, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate [sm=evil.gif]. Although keeping it a secret probably kept some foolish meddlers away, it also kept loads of great people away. I think the mainstream acceptance has helped give some people the courage they needed to allow themselves to explore and find happiness within the realm of kink.




undergroundsea -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 8:46:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
without the interest of discussion, comparing notes, and watching demos, there are many things that can go wrong.


I am pondering that point. I agree that what you say has basis. I am wondering how much of that occurs today amongst those who want to do it but don't know how and how much will education increase with lessening of the taboos, and which of the two opposing trends (more new people trying it, versus more education) will prevail. For instance, as sex outside monogamous relationships grew, so did incidents of sexually transmitted diseases, and then so did education about safe sex.

Cheers,

Sea




LadyPact -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 8:48:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
Do you feel the growing acceptance of "deviant" sexual behavior is good or bad for the D/s community?


As compared to what?  Are you referring to centuries ago when all of us would have been considered deviants in the first place?




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 8:51:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: katie978

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that it will lure only moderately kinky people into the lifestyle.

With the advent of boundless internet porn, I imagine that there are loads of people who read about something, get hooked on the fantasy, and try and do something ridiculously stupid that they've only read about. If they had been dedicated and in the lifestyle, presumably all the warnings, or someone they knew would be able to talk them out of it.

People who wouldn't have previously considered doing kinky shit are now going to try inverted suspension shibari or knifeplay, and other, only moderately kinky people are going to get hurt because being kinky is suddenly mainstream and desirable in a partner.


It's been my experience there are edge-play things that are more likely and less likely to be a risk. Knifeplay is actually pretty unlikely, as is almost any form of blood play. You can tell because when going through a multitude of profiles of individuals who orient as "kinky", knifeplay and blood play are typically among their limits, and often are a hard limit. For people who are on the edge of acceptance of their kinkiness, things that draw blood will still be very scary. On the other hand, a little "gentle breath play" is -very- likely... and could kill more quickly than messed-up knife-play. Breath play using carotid compression can kill or cause a stroke the first time that it is done in a middle-aged person with normal plaque development in the carotid... and there is enough bad information on the internet to give some people the impression that this could be safe. The same goes for bondage -- improperly done, it can maim by restricting circulation, or even kill (can cause anything from pulmonary embolism to strangulation).

Unfortunately, as I expressed in the earlier post, sometimes information doesn't necessarily imply acceptance, and for someone who wants to explore in the privacy of hir own home -- who has just enough information to hurt hirself, but not enough to feel comfortable going to 'the community', it can bring on a real mess.

Calla Firestorm




HeavansKeeper -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 8:55:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
Do you feel the growing acceptance of "deviant" sexual behavior is good or bad for the D/s community?


As compared to what?  Are you referring to centuries ago when all of us would have been considered deviants in the first place?



I would say sadism and masochism are still deviant behaviors, but that's not what I'm talking about. There is a stereotypical view of the BDSM world. As the acts inspired by power exchange, sadism, and masochism find their way into vanilla bedrooms, do you think the stereotypical view gets better or worse?

I know the stereotypes don't matter, and should have no bearing on what people do, but I feel its important. For all the demographics I am a part of, I try to "raise the bar", for the stereotype.

When someone hears I am My Pet's owner, do I want them to think "He is a dark, abusive man who is using her"? No, I'd rather something along the lines of "He's pretty kinky - Good for him." "Protecting" the stereotype is the difference.

So you asked "As compared to what?" but I can't really answer that, it's not what I was talking about.




MasterFireMaam -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/27/2008 11:10:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
Do you feel the growing acceptance of "deviant" sexual behavior is good or bad for the D/s community?


I feel that it will change it. I try to not make judgments about change.

Master Fire




Vendaval -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/28/2008 12:27:12 AM)

I think there are both positive and negative results.
 
Positive - better understanding, hopefully leading to increased education and tolerance, even acceptance.
 
Negative - becoming yet another fad without substance, attracting sexual tourists and people who are not willing to learn and educate themselves in basic safety, etiquette and confidentiality.




SurrenderForMe -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/28/2008 12:39:32 AM)

I'd need to know your definition of of "deviant" sexual behavior, in order to answer that.  I haven't found a rejection of what I would assume is deviant sexual behavior in any group of people I have encountered.  I have found people with personal preferences that did not go to say anal, golden showers, cutting, branding, fisting,etc.  It wasn't this or that persons thing.  No big deal.

I think I just hang out with really twisted people.




Lynnxz -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/28/2008 5:55:10 AM)

quote:

People who wouldn't have previously considered doing kinky shit are now going to try inverted suspension shibari or knifeplay, and other, only moderately kinky people are going to get hurt because being kinky is suddenly mainstream and desirable in a partner.


And what, may I ask, defines an 'Only moderately kinky' person? This kind of disdainful attitude hurts bdsm more than anything I think.

Having information on *gasp, the internets* is a good thing for BDSM. Does it bring new people into the lifestyle? Sure, it's perfectly natural for people to want to experiment.   And regardless of what some people might want to believe... it's not rocket science. There is absolutely no need for someone to be involved in the 'lifestyle', and attend munches and play parties and demos. It's fun and informative  for some people, others find it a pain in the ass.

People who insist that BDSM is some dark, mysterious complicated activity are, in my opinion, doing way more harm than good for their own lifestyle. If you INSIST that you are strange and different, society's probably going to agree with you, and push you off into a dark corner so you can be different all by yourself. Have fun. On the other hand, if you don't act like you are some kind of kinky shaman... and you drop the arrogant attitude, people are much more likely to accept what you do.

People will always experiment. People were spanking and biting and screwing around long before someone decided it was dangerous, and started giving demos on how not to behave like a jackass.




thetammyjo -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/28/2008 6:19:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper


Do you feel the growing acceptance of "deviant" sexual behavior is good or bad for the D/s community?


I think it is good if as a community we take the time to do education and speak out when the mass media presentations try to associate consensual activities with crimes.

Otherwise we just quietly agree to the negatives being shown by us.

That the few positive displays and sexual displays attract those who want to try it out.. I have mixed feelings. Any type of intimacy involves risks and if you aren't willing to learn about those risks and try to lessen them you will harm yourself and others. I can't get behind harm.. hurting, I can get behind that but not harm.

Again the best way to combat that possibility but as I've seen time and time again, most folks just want to get off or do it privately, thinking or hoping that what they do affects n one else. I have seen nothing in history that supports that fantasy.




LadyPact -> RE: A Topic of Conversation... (7/28/2008 11:05:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
I would say sadism and masochism are still deviant behaviors, but that's not what I'm talking about. There is a stereotypical view of the BDSM world. As the acts inspired by power exchange, sadism, and masochism find their way into vanilla bedrooms, do you think the stereotypical view gets better or worse?

I know the stereotypes don't matter, and should have no bearing on what people do, but I feel its important. For all the demographics I am a part of, I try to "raise the bar", for the stereotype.

When someone hears I am My Pet's owner, do I want them to think "He is a dark, abusive man who is using her"? No, I'd rather something along the lines of "He's pretty kinky - Good for him." "Protecting" the stereotype is the difference.

So you asked "As compared to what?" but I can't really answer that, it's not what I was talking about.

I could be wrong, but it might be two different things.  People don't tend to see the stereotype when they see themselves.  As more folks are adding a bit more 'flavor' to their vanilla bedrooms, I don't think it necessarily changes the stereotype that has been brought about by bad porn and vivid imaginations.  A little slap and tickle during sex isn't the same as living this structure in other areas of life. 

Now, as for the other comment about either protecting the stereotype or raising the bar, I  find that to be something a little different.  Stereotypes are only dispelled by those included in that category of people giving information where only conjecture and myth were had before.  It can mean answering when people are willing to ask questions and hear the answers.  Truthfully, I don't think that's going to happen the with the majority of the people out there, but there are those who are willing to learn about people who are different than themselves.  This is where the opportunity lies.

I don't know much about your personal situation, whether you have the ability to be open about your BDSM interests or not.  I do happen to have that ability, to a degree.  I'll be quite frank with you.  I take advantage of that.  I use it for this very purpose.  I can't tell you how many times a vanilla friend has asked Me about an activity or a situation, I've given them the answer, and their first reaction goes something like, "I didn't know it was like that".

To Me, this isn't one of those areas were people get in a huff about the lifestyle being shoved down the public's throat.  That's another debate entirely.  Even when I'm asked about My life by those who don't share My interests, I still put out that standard question that keeps the conversation in check.  "Do you really want to know?"  Most people know their own character enough to know how capable they are to hear what might come back to them.

I think I'm rambling a bit at this point, but I wanted to add one more thing.  While many people are curious about the sexual aspect of wiitwd, those aren't the questions that I answer most often.  More often than not, the questions are about the dynamic, roles, or how things work in day to day life.  If that doesn't change people's perceptions about the stereotype they might have for us, nothing will.




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