Protecting fellow Kinksters (Full Version)

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softness -> Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 1:29:55 PM)

This isn't a thread about being out and proud ... or on being ashamed of your particular choice of lifestyle. This is about keeping each other safe and protected.

I attended two munches this weekend, one very local and one not so local. At both events I had to take steps to inform people present that their behaviour was putting my privacy and therefore potentially my security at risk. Its not a major bother and both matters were resolved quickly and fairly painlessly - though in one instance I was accused of being unslavey for correcting a Dom about his behaviour (*rolls eyes*) .. one was a person taking pictures at a munch (without having asked previously) to put onto a website to advertise the munch. The photographer reassured me that faces or distinguishing features would be blurred out .. but I felt it was out of order to take pictures without warning/asking people before hand. The other was a Dom friend disclosing personal information about me to a third party I had never met before - this was just plain stupid. I dont want a stranger knowing I live alone, what my first name is etc etc - and the dressing down I gave him was in my opinion well earned.

I know plenty of people who are in jobs where they would prefer their private life stayed private. I use my home as a rule of thumb ... If I know a kinkster well enough for them to have been in my home ... they find out about my vanilla life. The reverse is also true of my vanilla friends. Some people are much more closed about who knows what ... some people much more open ... people do what works for them. People know I am a teacher ... fine ... but you don't know my full name and where I live ... People who do are those that I know I can trust .. no offense or anything ... but you people are depraved ... who knows what you could do with that information.

I feel that I have a responsibility to help the people around me preserve their privacy and vanilla identity if that is their personal choice. Most of the events I attend are populated by people from Informed Consent and they tend to use their online nics in the place of first names. I make a point of not using a first name at events unless that particular person makes a point of explicitly saying it is ok. I know a name is a small thing .. but its a level of personal distance that some people require and I respect that. Similarly if I met people I knew only slightly from the scene in a vanilla setting .. I would probably make out that this was our first meeting in order to give them the opportunity to protect that personal information.

On the flip side ... I know people who refuse to reveal their real name or personal details (like a phone number) to people they are looking to have - or already have - intimate relationships with. I know people who refuse to say which city the live in or will deny being present at an event incase it "incriminates" them.

To what degree do you pesonally and your local events feel they have a collective responsibility to protect fellow kinksters? .. and how far do you think is too far? Do people at your local events give out personal information fairly freely? Is it different in the States? (are we Brits simply overly suspicious of our fellow kinksters?)



JoePNY707 -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 1:40:56 PM)

softness, I agree completely! In either of those situations, courtesy demands that you defer to the people you are possibly about to 'expose' ...and as for being unslavey for correcting a Dom about his behaviour...tell them to grow up! [:D]




pixidustpet -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 1:56:21 PM)

preach it, softness!!!!

i dont have a recognisable pic on here now because TheEngineer is involved in local politics.  i have an obligation to be discrete on his behalf...athough personally i know there are some naughty photos floating about the web of me.  *shrugs* whatever.  they're before we got together.

i dont want my name bandied about, nor phone number...and i know those people who *do* have those numbers are thrustworthy.  

while some people are able to just throw themselves on out there, i choose not to.

kitten



everhope -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 2:07:50 PM)

picture taking is a big no at any of the functions that i attend from socials (munchs) to dungeons. my friends in the scene are all protective of each others personal information. i would have gasped, softness had i heard another giving that kind of information about me to a third party and i would have taken that person aside and told him how inappropriate he was in devulging such private info.  



Missokyst -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 2:10:15 PM)

I live in a small community.  But we have people joining us from the larger cities more often than not.  In their own munch community I have no way of knowing how safe they feel about being out, but here in my town, we keep a low profile.  I run the local munch here and we have standard rules.  No excessive fetish wear is allowed, that is, I don't want people joining in if they are going to come in crawling behind their master on a leash.  I don't want people kneeling beside their owners chair.  Because this is a small town, people who join us must agree to some discretion. 
Within the conversations in our private.. though still in a public restaurant, room, we can talk about fetish things as long as we keep that within our own earshot and not proclaimed loadly for the other patrons and staff to hear.  Pictures are not allowed, no matter how blurred you can get them.  We meet for parties and such but very few people know the full identity and location of most of the members and we are happy that way.
Once I did have a couple of people who were almost obnoxious about their desire to be "out and proud" that they were making us all a spectacle, but that was quickly squashed.
People have a right to be who they are, but they have a responsibility to respect the desire for discretion from those around them. 
If they cannot comply, they can find a group further afield.  A three hour drive never hurt anyone.
Kyst



SteelofUtah -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 2:25:00 PM)

I agree with the feeling but I have to say that the responsibility is your Softness.

I know I'm gunna catch hell for this, but you know if you engage in a public activity or meeting of people in a public or semi-public place then you already outed yourself because anyone who shows up can associate you with the group.

I see it this way. I make it known that I go by Steel at public functions and only a handful of people know what my real name is and even then only a small portion of them know my Last Name. Of those they ALL know that I go by Steel at ALL functions and never want my real name used at a function for any reason. If they do use it then I take responsibility because I allowed them to know it in the first place.

I belonged to a group in Vegas that met weekly at a local Bar and Grille I once was invited to a business meeting there for Lunch on a Wednesday so I figured I would not have to deal with any of the guys who knew me. I didn't account for the Bartender and Waitress. When the waitress came over to all of us in business suits she said good to see you Steel. I was able to play this off easily enough until the Bartender came over and asked the two gentlemen I was having lunch with who also happened to be Lead Purchasers for The Rio and were discussing a deal that would net the company a million dollars in the first 2 years with an additional million every year there after for the next 10 years if they signed the contract, and the bartender asked if my "Two Buddies were going to show up on Friday night with all the other Leather Clad Dominatrixes" I was speachless and was unable to stop the conversation when one of the Purchaser asked "Pardon me?" and the Bartender went on to explain that I was there every friday night with the people who like to wear leather and tie each other up and spank each other.

I lost the contract.

Was this the Bartenders fault? The Waitresses? Or am I the only one to blame because I chose to be involved in the first place.

Keep the blame where it belongs if you never got involved no one would screw with your anonymity.

Steel



IvyMorgan -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 2:32:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

[snip].. one was a person taking pictures at a munch (without having asked previously) to put onto a website to advertise the munch. The photographer reassured me that faces or distinguishing features would be blurred out .. but I felt it was out of order to take pictures without warning/asking people before hand. [snip]
I used to work in a swingers/fet bar, twas fun, and a good laugh.  There was a no cameras, no phone rule, and about twice a month I'd end up calling someone on it.  Ususally a newbie who didn;t know, who took the news just fine, and wandered off to the phone using space.

I remember the four, what in America would be "frat" boys, who didn't get the message.  They had camera phones, they made video of me, doing ma thing (at this point I was also still teaching), so I hoik that camera/phone whatsit, and give it to management.  I'm weilding a particularly viscious looking riding crop and tying up a TV a little later, and the same guy whips out another camera phone, he gets a warning, he ignores it, I hoik that phone too, and wack him one in the process.  Some people just can't take a hint.

Now, I've done photos, I've made a cp movie, it's all fine, I don't teach anymore, and decided against a career in politics early in my university career.  But the point is, I want to choose when and how my face/other bits get bandied about the place in pixel form.

Those four are one of the few groups of people I really truly remember from my time there.  Gotta love bad reasons to remember people :P

In general, I'll use scene names unless someone else is already using their own name.  On the scene, I go with Suzanna, because well, it's my name.  I do keep my private life private, and offer the same coutesy to others, not that there's any major reason to right now, except that my parents would freak, again, and I should probably spare them that.  Plus, someday, I'm gonna go back to teaching, I hope.  Though of the lovely post grad lawyers who don't *do* public speaking, so no one has to worry about me caring for/corrupting their kiddies.



softness -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 2:38:25 PM)

I think you mistook my meaning Steel. In your situation obviously the ultimate responsibility lays with yourself ... just as in mine it lays with me. I have a clear face pic on here yes? ... well I have them on other sites as well .. but I choose which sites. People taking pictures without my consent and posting them on the internet without my consent .. that is a different matter is it not?

You said you make it known you wish to be known as Steel at all events ... you cannot force people to abide by that ... but you can *expect* and *prefer* them to do so. I was not making the point about anonymity ... I am not anonymous by anymeans. I do believe however we have a responsibility to aid one another in preserving privacy - giving out of personal information to a third party however by a fellow kinkster - that is very different to it being known you attend kinky events.



daddysblondie -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 2:42:55 PM)

I'm with you softness. I'm pretty tight-lipped with personal information, more so because I'm a teacher than I would have been if I was still working in my previous profession.

I also tend to be extremely protective and I think i would have reacted much the same way you did if someone was giving out personal information about myself or someone close to me at a local event. I respect and admire even those people that can be very open about their lifestyle, but I'm not there and understand many others aren't either.

I guess to me, this is one of those instances where I recognize that a persons right to privacy needs to be respected above all else.



StrongSpirit -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 3:24:30 PM)

Taking someone's picture should never be done without permission.

There recently was a story about a woman who's photo was used on a porn site without her permission.   You have no duty to trust the person that says they will blur the faces.  They have a duty to get permission first before taking a picture.

As for not being sub, just because you are a bottom, doesn't mean you have to sub to EVERYONE.  You get to choose who to sub to, and if I were submissive, I would not bottom to the photo taker.



LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 3:50:10 PM)

it is risk everyone takes even having pics on sites     I would say if you do not want the risk do not put your self out there for people to risk your privacy   you never can trust people when they get mad some people do rash things  remeber heat of moment can lead to a life time of heart ache



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 3:50:33 PM)

I have to agree that it's your responsibility.  You put yourself out there, YOU take responsibility for what happens.

Now, I also agree that taking pictures to post is a big deal in the kink world and everyone attending should have been well informed ahead of time that this was going to happen so they could make the right choice for themselves. 

As far as information being shared- unless you've specifically told someone "Do not share this" then there can be no expectation of that information being with that person alone.  Even then, people forget, people get loose, sharing information is part of what makes a community formalize.

It's nice for us all to use best practices, but really, it's your choice to go out.  If you put ANYTHING out there- your body, your info, it's YOUR choice, and not someone else's wrongdoing for that to "get out."

We can't say "respect my kink and my choice" and then expect people to share responsibility for our own personal choices.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 4:32:58 PM)

I have real issues with this whole idea of "protecting" other people. We have an entire country tied up in knots now, and subject to a sh*tload of useless rules to "protect" folks from the risks they choose to take, the decisions they choose to make, and the life they choose to live, and I resent the hell out of it.

I know for a fact that having a Mission Statement that requires that the group "protect" its members from "exposure" has taken one group that I really enjoyed to the point where there is not a single public venue where they can meet and play -- all of the public venues that would allow such a thing require that the people who come sign statements that they are of age and are entering the establishment and participating in the activities there of their own free will. Many of them also have security cameras in places like their parking lots (because it is not uncommon for 'freak-bashing' to happen around here, so in order to "protect" their customers, these places put in cameras). However, in order to protect the anonymity of the membership, this group can't go anywhere where there would be a paper trail and possible photos from the security cameras in the parking lot.

People need to protect themselves. If they can't be seen in public, they should know enough to stick to private venue events and not keep the entire group from being able to participate because they can't afford to have their faces seen in public.

In -this- sense, I think that the group/club was out of line. Being able to make decisions about being "out" requires that there is enough info to make a decision. If the group has been told that their identities are protected at group functions, having an unannounced photographer is a no-go... But expecting the general "community" to protect someone's identity... I think that's a heavy expectation -- one never knows when someone who is new or just careless will say the wrong thing at the wrong time.

I think that if I had to worry about my inclinations costing me my life, I would stick to open munches and private events until such time as the things that were at risk were no longer an issue.

Firestorm



MzMia -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 4:50:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I have to agree that it's your responsibility.  You put yourself out there, YOU take responsibility for what happens.

Now, I also agree that taking pictures to post is a big deal in the kink world and everyone attending should have been well informed ahead of time that this was going to happen so they could make the right choice for themselves. 

As far as information being shared- unless you've specifically told someone "Do not share this" then there can be no expectation of that information being with that person alone.  Even then, people forget, people get loose, sharing information is part of what makes a community formalize.

It's nice for us all to use best practices, but really, it's your choice to go out.  If you put ANYTHING out there- your body, your info, it's YOUR choice, and not someone else's wrongdoing for that to "get out."

We can't say "respect my kink and my choice" and then expect people to share responsibility for our own personal choices.


Well, I agree with our lovely LA, on this one.
 
One of my favorite quotes is: 
3 men can keep a secret as long as 2 of them are dead.... "Benjamin Franklin".
Those of us that need to be discreet go out of our way to at least TRY to
keep it that way. [:D]



kiwisub12 -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 4:55:21 PM)

At the "private" munches my Sir and i go to, there is an expectation that privacy is kept. If photos are taken, permission is asked first, and conditions kept to ( no faces for example). and yes, if private info was being given out by a third party, i as a sub/slave would have no trouble telling anyone there that they were out of line.

Actually, i feel that is a matter of common courtesy - if someone is that curious, they should be directing their enquiries to the person they are asking about.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 5:01:15 PM)

What exaclty is "private info"?  No one said anyone was curious- I don't have to ask a question about someone in order for them to share information with me.  I often say something like "Yeah I'd love to learn more about X" and have three people say "Oh well Master D loves doing this and he'll be here next week" or some version of that.  Is that discourteous?



MzMia -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 5:06:29 PM)

Hi LA,
I can only tell you what is private to ME.
That would be my real first and/or last name, my address, exactly
what I do for a living and where I work.

If I am out and I am calling myself "Pumpkinhead" you can chat about me all you
like, as long as you keep calling me Pumpkinhead.
I don't see how you can be heavily involved, and well known in the "scene" and at the same time, NOT be well known.
What you put out that is common knowledge, will be shared by everyone.
 



kiwisub12 -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 5:08:11 PM)

I wouldn't think so - what i would consider private info would be job and site, address or town, names - last always, first if the person wouldn't want it out. The munches i go to are small, and we pretty much know each others opinion on personal info.  I would have to say if there was someone there that i wasn't familiar with, and they were wanting info i wasn't comfortable giving out , i would refer them to the person that they were enquiring about.



Alumbrado -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 6:02:23 PM)

If you can't trust a 'fellow kinkster' on a matter like discretion, what else could you trust them with? 



SurrenderForMe -> RE: Protecting fellow Kinksters (7/29/2008 6:43:18 PM)

The US has people ranging from less intense than you to insanely more protective than you. 

I personally fall into slightly less intense than you.  I thought you were fine.  I've done similar things in similar situations.

I do believe that each person is responsible for themselves.  If someone is uncomfortable with x, say it.  When I first got into the scene I met people and they used scene, real and role play names.  I find that tiring.   If someone wants me to remember to call them x, then don't ask me to call you anything else.  I am not infallible and I don't care about first names as being major information.  I never used anything but my first name in face to face meetings with anyone.





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