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RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 9:34:48 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GhoSSt


This is actually very very close to what happened. I'm a pretty blunt guy, ex-military, construction worker, not much phases me. This just seemed over the top.

GhoSSt



My Darling has the "words-with-teeth" in our household. I'm a diplomat... just the way we happen to be wired. She's excruciatingly direct at times, and it's surprising the number of people who don't want to hear the truth. *shrugs* In any case, we've had a couple of instances where this has come up. Myself, I'm inclined to excuse myself if someone has an issue with what she's said, they won't accept her apology, and just want to rant about it for hours afterwards. Sometimes, if there's something going on we think will be important, I'll hang around and take notes -- and the folks who are "playmates" in our household, but aren't in a house collar, are more than welcome to come or go as their conscience speaks... but I feel differently about our collared servants. To me, they're part of our household, and if the household is denied something, that means the collared servants as well. In the same way, unless it is a Top-specific event, if we're invited to something as a household, that means that our servants are welcome as well. If someone has an issue with one of our servants, but they still want us to attend their little soiree, their recourse is to discuss it with us, and let us deal with the issue. If they don't like how we handle it, and want to shut out our household, that means -none- of us will attend their fete, and they'll just have to do without (poor them, eh? ).

I'll be damned if I'll hang around somewhere that won't welcome my Darling without a good reason and her being comfortable with me going anyway. Our servants know this, and only once have we had to cut a servant loose whose allegiance clearly rested elsewhere -- but I wouldn't hesitate to do it again, under the right circumstances.

Calla Firestorm


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***
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(in reply to GhoSSt)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 9:50:24 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
OR, they are trying to educate a dumbass and make the point that his behavior sucks, he is too childish to admit it and that PERHAPS by pointing out that they are not stupid enough to ban anyone he knows that MAYBE he might pull his head out of his ass.
 
Or they could be trying to break them up or play power struggles but we don't really know enough to say.


Absolutely they may be simply excluding him because he may be an ass.  But socially too?  They have made it quite clear this is not just a ban thing, but a personal one.  I get that people play outside the box and the rules at workshops etc and that can get them banned.  But making the point to exclude their relationship in a social setting and make it her decision is nothing short of childish and manipulative.  She will be damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.  Just because a master is banned, doesn't mean his property is and that is pretty straight forward normal procedure.  They are playing a game - all of them.  And the girl is piggy in the middle.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 9:55:39 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

If you are banned from a group, session etc because your behaviour sucks - fine.  I get that.  But making the issue about the girl reeks of power struggle.  It doesn't take a genius to work out that banning one person doesn't mean the entire partnership.family are banned.  But by singling her out, they are negating her common sense, pointing out that they are in charge and using her to get to him.
Ditto that. If these folks are so miffed that they exclude him even after his apology, it seems likely that one of their favorite topics for discussion once they are with her will be about what an asshole he is so they can drive a wedge between them.

Sure, his behavior was stupid, but theirs is sleazy. 


< Message edited by happypervert -- 7/31/2008 9:57:07 AM >

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RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 10:23:06 AM   
MizSexyVixen


Posts: 137
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

If you are banned from a group, session etc because your behaviour sucks - fine.  I get that.  But making the issue about the girl reeks of power struggle.  It doesn't take a genius to work out that banning one person doesn't mean the entire partnership.family are banned.  But by singling her out, they are negating her common sense, pointing out that they are in charge and using her to get to him.
Ditto that. If these folks are so miffed that they exclude him even after his apology, it seems likely that one of their favorite topics for discussion once they are with her will be about what an asshole he is so they can drive a wedge between them.

Sure, his behavior was stupid, but theirs is sleazy. 



I totally agree with both these posts. This kind of petty juvenile crap abounds in most local groups I have been a part of. These days I tend to remain lowkey; I've no interest in getting embroiled in the nonsense.

This says a LOT about who we are as a group, IMO. We preach acceptance, but offer so little.

*ducks 

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RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 10:56:46 AM   
CruelDesires


Posts: 824
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		Flipped around, if someone had issues with my girl and decided to invite me without her, I would politely decline. Or not so politely. Depending on the situation.

C-D

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 11:14:14 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GhoSSt

My gal and I are at an impasse over a situation. I'm a little... err... socially blunt and I've said somethings that offended some mutual friends. The mutual friends have responded with a disproportionate response that basically says I'm not welcome to attend their training events or their social functions. I'm fine with that, but here's the kicker, but they have invited my girl to come to the training classes if she likes and further asked to hang out with her at work (they have a guest observation program) and socially (dinner, etc).

I have a real issue with that. All of my other couple friends have said to me "We don't go anywhere that we're not welcome as a couple. In the end you have to choose your mate, even when their not innocent in the situation because thats who you love and live with".

I think I'm in the right on this one, but I'd like to hear other opinions. NOMEX READY

GhoSSt





I haven't read any of the comments but I wouldn't socialize with people or friends that wouldn't accept my owner.  They don't need to love him or even necessarily like him, but there does need to be acceptance.

C~


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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 11:58:05 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		I have to go with Darchyandthedark, happy pervert and others in this situation.  The girl is being put into a difficult if not untenable situation by all parties here.  Yes, you...the OP...acted like an ass and actions have consequences but their actions are not entirely upright either.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 12:24:03 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GhoSSt

I have a real issue with that. All of my other couple friends have said to me "We don't go anywhere that we're not welcome as a couple. In the end you have to choose your mate, even when their not innocent in the situation because thats who you love and live with".



I don't have any problem with the fact that they extended the invitation to her but not you. After certain racist and homophobic comments, I bluntly told a friend while she was welcome anytime, her boyfriend was never to set foot in my house again. If he showed up, I would get him on tresspassing.

I don't know what you said so I have no idea if they are making a bigger issue out of this than they should be. However if you have a problem with her going to events without you, than that is something you need to take up with her. If we were in a similiar situation, I could go either way. If I was ordered, I would obey of course but if left to decide by myself it would depend on what was said, the nature of the event itself and who it was that was offended. I would probably err on the side of not going. On the other hand, if I felt that Val made an ass of himself and they were right to be offended and continue to not want him then I would be honest about that and not feel bad about going. Offering to fix the window doesn't mean they should want you to play in their front yard again. There are things that, when said, simply can't be taken back.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/31/2008 12:26:25 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 1:10:55 PM   
Constrictor1


Posts: 143
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Constrictor1
Status: offline 		Sounds to me like you are an unfiltered and inconsiderate person. ( So am I sometimes.) It also sounds like your former friends might be doing a little poaching by trying to cut her away from you. I find both of these possibilities irrelevant to your loyalty question. In fact, if you have to question your girls loyalty there is already an issue. You are supposed to be the Dom/Master. Act like it. Make a decision about her behaviors in this scenario, inform her of the decision, enforce the decision and move on. Then you will KNOW about her loyalty and xan make decisions from there.

Good Luck
Constrictor1

(in reply to GhoSSt)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 1:11:53 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		Its hard for me to imagine myself attending an event without the d I was attached to under such circumstances.  If I thought s/he had acted inappropriately, I would certainly let them know, but, I would stay away from the folks s/he was having trouble with until things had been cleared up.

In my experience, lifestyle groups are riddled with a whole lot of drama about nothing and I don't believe in bans, blacklists and the like unless someone consistently pushes/breaks group rules.  This rules out bans that come about because of interpersonal conflicts.  In my mind, its bad form to exclude someone  from events because of personal problems.

When it comes to informal social gatherings and private invite parties, I don't have a problem with people including/excluding who they want.


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 2:07:24 PM   
StormsSlave


Posts: 629
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		My Lord is blunt to the point of pain. He offends people regularly. Your girl apparently likes you the way you are, in spite of the crap you put her through. (If you say you don't, I call bullshit, cause I live where she is.) In my case, My Lord has never told me I can't be friends with anyone. On the contrary, he always advises me to do as I please, as he is going to do the same.

If someone were to refuse him after he apologized (which he rarely does) then I would tell hem to go fuck themselves, except for kin, and I probably don't like them anyway. ;) I know he would do the same. If I chose to see them again, he would tell me, loudly, how he feels about them, but would never question my loyalty over it.

I would politely decline future invites. My Lord is my favorite person to be with. If he can't go, I'd rather stay home. I'd also suspect the motives of anyone who knows us as a couple trying to get us separated (are they poly?) and would probably tell them so.

As for the friends, well, I'm with those who agree she's stuck in the middle. Get over yourself, and stop placing life altering importance on the actions of others. If she loves you enough to go out in public with you knowing the way you are likely to act, then you are a lucky fucker. Your actions and attitude on this make me think you don't deserve her. Show some gratitude, and stop questioning the loyalty of the person who CHOOSES to be with you.



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RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 2:35:46 PM   
Daes


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
Status: offline 		Jeez. A few of these responses are really annoying.

Anywho, I agree with StormsSlave above.

To address the OP, there isn't enough info, these Could be good friends of hers that she has every right to see, OR these could just be casual friends of the both of you, or maybe not.

Now, if /I/ was her, Id politely decline until things got better between both parties, give it a week or so for things to settle down. Choosing one side or another is going to start problems on many levels and in order to attempt to avoid drama, that is the action I'd take. Let it be.

That said, I dont know how your relationship with your girl or, or how your relationship with these other people are, or hers to them - But if it were Me, I wouldnt go if Sir was not allowed. We are a part of each other. If these were His friends, I wouldnt go. If these were My friends, Id have a serious discussion with them, another discussion with Sir, and try to work things out between the both of them. You obviously apologized for your behavior, I would expect my Friends to be mature and stop being whiny children and let it go -  or they are not worth my time.

< Message edited by Daes -- 7/31/2008 2:37:49 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 2:39:07 PM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline 		I would not attend anything of a social nature if my significant other were not welcome. It is the height of tackyness for them to invite her and exclude you. Having said that if my significant other made a habit of being excluded in this manner I'd be reconsidering our liaison.

(in reply to GhoSSt)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 3:06:50 PM   
masterofdrkness2


Posts: 1697
Joined: 3/17/2008
Status: offline 		I can understand being blunt.. this is me ... I do not sugar coat much, and the people I hang around with know this about me , you said you threw a rock, broke the window ,and offered to fix it immeditley ( unless you do this on a daily basis) sounds like to me, they are the ones being childish by not accepting your apology  which in turn looks like a bunch of drama , so you are better off by not being around these people..now as to weather she should go ? going strictly by what you have explained here( we all know there is 2 sides to every story) this seams like a good time to find out where your gals loyalty lies, I really dont have a lot to go on as what she is saying ( again we only hear your side of the story)but she should not hesitate  to politly turn down the offer......just my 2 cents

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 3:33:32 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

If you are banned from a group, session etc because your behaviour sucks - fine.  I get that.  But making the issue about the girl reeks of power struggle.  It doesn't take a genius to work out that banning one person doesn't mean the entire partnership.family are banned.  But by singling her out, they are negating her common sense, pointing out that they are in charge and using her to get to him.
Ditto that. If these folks are so miffed that they exclude him even after his apology, it seems likely that one of their favorite topics for discussion once they are with her will be about what an asshole he is so they can drive a wedge between them.

Sure, his behavior was stupid, but theirs is sleazy. 



  and if the man I love and serve is not welcome somewhere, you won't see me there either! 

My loyalty is to Him and our relationship first and foremost.

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 3:41:26 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterofdrkness2

you said you threw a rock, broke the window ,and offered to fix it immeditley ( unless you do this on a daily basis) sounds like to me, they are the ones being childish by not accepting your apology


Exactly the reason I asked if this was the first time or the last straw.  Doing the same offensive thing over and over and apologizing for it makes it a meaningless apology, and not worth the oxygen it took to make it.  On the other hand, if it was the "first offense" then my opinion of the others is different.

Cali


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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 4:19:46 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		What are you planning to do to avoid this type of situation again?  Are you planning to learn some control in social settings and keep that past tough guy from ruining friendships and experiences for both of you?  If you have a habit of just saying whatever you want to and people are offended by it... why should your lady suffer?  Because she has an out of control dom who decides he has the right to offend people, say he is sorry and everyone ought to move on?  Where is the personal accountablity in continuing to say things out of line and expecting an I'm sorry to cover it all?  That wouldn't fly with one of my um's!

Right now... other's are having to take responsiblity for your actions.  They over react or respond maybe or are tired of your antic's and your girl has to suffer because she is yours?  I don't get it.

Loyalty goes both ways.  If you expect her to be loyal to you and your relationship, then you ought to show some loyalty too and show some of that military discipline and grow the hell up! (Then no one could be trying to bad talk you or steal her away or anything else.) If you can't control yourself, stay home and let your girl have a life.  Maybe these people have seen this more than once and it wasn't a one time thing.  You did say you are like this, so maybe there is a whole lot more to the story.

Part of being a good dominant in my opinion is learning to grow, mature, be stable and honorable and I see no honor in not disciplining my own behavior.  If I am an embarassment to my submissive and offend people and expect an I'm sorry to cover it... my submissive deserves someone better.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 4:20:36 PM   
metalmiss


Posts: 341
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: Croydon, UK
Status: offline 		If i was invited to scene event and my Master wasn't because that particular person had a problem with Him, i would consider it bad manners on their part and decline the offer outright without consulting Him beforehand, knowing i had His full support.. Where thats concerned, if He doesn't go, neither do i.

i am however encouraged to have a life, and for the most part am not restricted from keeping the company of people He personally doesn't get on with & has no interest spending time with.
my ex for example.. We meet once a month for dinner and are slowly building a friendship.. my Master has no time for him, but He tolerates his presence for short periods of time because He knows that friendship is important to me & that i'm getting something positive from it.

He is secure in Himself, very blunt and to the point to a fault, but isn't drawn by insecurity to set an ultimatum for me (Him or them).. When He forbids me from having further contact with a person its always with good reason and it is a decision made with my best interests at heart.

It strikes me that your girl shouldn't be forced to choose between her partner or her friends.. Over a problem that you personally created by insulting them. Thats just not fair on her. i would let it go before she lets you go.


_____________________________

"The longing to serve, to submit, to abandon oneself sexually, emotionally, and physically makes one a slave either to a Man, a Woman or to God. Submission to that passion is divine degradation." - Dorothy C. Hayden

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(in reply to GhoSSt)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 4:21:10 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I won't go to public functions without my Sir.  If i have personal friends he doesn't like then i will see them in private. If they are associated with a local group i won't go to any functions that he isn't invited or welcome to.

Easy to figure out.

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Loyalty Question ? ? ? - 7/31/2008 6:20:01 PM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Even if that was due to your partners own doing?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure

However, I would not go anywhere that my partner was not welcome.  Mess with one of us, and you get us both.



That's a good question, YMHA.  I cannot imagine my partner being obnoxious, it's just not like him at all, but even if it was his fault or partly his fault, yes I think so.  It comes down to what's more important, me hanging out with people I like but hold my partner in contempt, or me being loyal to someone I am committed to.  If he made a habit of alienating people over and over, we'd have to talk about that, but a one time situation, yes, I'd support him unquestioningly.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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