RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (Full Version)

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Hanable -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/1/2008 2:32:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGIONAL: Hanable

u can tell me all the theories u want.. how whatever diet worked so well for so and so.. but untill u can prove to whoever that their not fat and ugly and stupid.. i (and many other ppl) will believe that we r in fact fat, ugly stupid and unwanted.




u can prove? Oh come now...you are dumping one hell of a responsibility onto someone else, don't you think? It is no ones job to prove your value....that task is one that you yourself must tackle. I strongly suggest you seek therapy.

Self improvement takes a great deal of work and sometimes involves dealing with painful emotional issues. But, dear one, allowing others to dictate who/what you are until someone else can prove otherwise is a cop-out. Sounds like you are hiding behind their words. What are you afraid of?



i dont think im putting much of a responsibilty on anyone.. its a fact.. i have people tell me im not ugly or stupid or fat.. but its been hammered into my head since i was about 12 so.. its not something u can jsut say ok.. i believe it. and ive been to therapy.. they say nothings wrong with me.. so yeah.

i dont think im afraid of anything.. but like ive said before.. if someone hears something, weather its "ur smart and beautiful" or "ur a nasty rotten ugly fat person who no one wants", enough times they will believe it. and that will not jsut go away with one single person saying"they lied" or ur not whatever.. it takes lots of time and proof that what was said isnt true... why is that so hard for u to understand?

H >:)



fluffyswitch -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/1/2008 2:53:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanable

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGIONAL: Hanable

u can tell me all the theories u want.. how whatever diet worked so well for so and so.. but untill u can prove to whoever that their not fat and ugly and stupid.. i (and many other ppl) will believe that we r in fact fat, ugly stupid and unwanted.




u can prove? Oh come now...you are dumping one hell of a responsibility onto someone else, don't you think? It is no ones job to prove your value....that task is one that you yourself must tackle. I strongly suggest you seek therapy.

Self improvement takes a great deal of work and sometimes involves dealing with painful emotional issues. But, dear one, allowing others to dictate who/what you are until someone else can prove otherwise is a cop-out. Sounds like you are hiding behind their words. What are you afraid of?



i dont think im putting much of a responsibilty on anyone.. its a fact.. i have people tell me im not ugly or stupid or fat.. but its been hammered into my head since i was about 12 so.. its not something u can jsut say ok.. i believe it. and ive been to therapy.. they say nothings wrong with me.. so yeah.

i dont think im afraid of anything.. but like ive said before.. if someone hears something, weather its "ur smart and beautiful" or "ur a nasty rotten ugly fat person who no one wants", enough times they will believe it. and that will not jsut go away with one single person saying"they lied" or ur not whatever.. it takes lots of time and proof that what was said isnt true... why is that so hard for u to understand?

H >:)



it's sometimes called the social self or the looking glass self-- we learn to see ourselves in a certain way through the way that our social interactions work out. we  have to essentially retrain ourselves to new stimuli, in both the psychological or sociological sense. i'm more familiar with the looking glass self (soc) than the social self (psych) but my understanding is that it's a matter of standpoint.

i know where you're coming from. i used to think that i'm obnoxiously disgusting because that's all that i heard and the only positive feedback i got was when i lost weight. and i've also had people say that it should be easy, just change your mindset.

i think that the issue comes in when people don't necessarily stop to think about the fact that every social situation is different and everyone has different psyches. nothing wrong with that, it's not a judgement. it's just that people think in different ways, so they a) don't realize that what works for them won't work for other people or b) forget what they went through overcoming certain training for lack of a better word.

i think in this situation it is a matter of finding a new social circle and finding a new support base-- a new mirror in other words-- so that you can learn to start seeing yourself in a new manner and interacting with people who see you in the same way.



Hanable -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/1/2008 3:00:49 PM)

thnc u fluffy.. at least u try to understand.. im not putting any one down or anything.. but fluffy is correct... u need to stop and think before u go off and tell me, or anyone, that i jsut need to change.. its hard.. and i dont know where to start the change.

on another point.. i kinda cant change part of the "mirror".. my mother. but i do understand that i need to find good ppl to help me.. which is harder then it sounds.. like so many other things.  

H >:)



LadyRainfire -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/1/2008 4:23:46 PM)

Hanable, I never said it was easy. Go back to my post. I said "The one thing I've learned in this life, often the hard way, is that people see us the way we see ourselves." I added the emphasis this time since apparently it was missed the first time. No, you can't change your mother. But you can change your reactions to her. Not overnight, that's unrealistic. But in time, with practice. Starting with little things. She says "A", instead of responding with "B" or thinking "B" you stop and make yourself think of say  - "E".You'll screw up, make mistakes, but say ok and keep on trying. Tell yourself "ok, I did it!" when you succeed even once and keep on trying. I know this from personal experience because I'm still dealing with some issues with my mother. I worked long and hard to move on from the major issues of my childhood. 

On finding new people to be around, that depends so much on where you are and personal circumstances. For myself, I actually needed to take some "alone" time and just primarily be by myself, not really have a lot of people around me. Not family, not friends, no one. Eh, except a few cats. They were great company for me. [:)] Slowly, when I was able to work with people again, I was careful about who I was around. I knew I was in a fragile state. I confided in one or two people I could trust and they helped me. Perhaps you have someone similar to help you. A friend or minister? Teacher or counselor?

Good luck and best wishes.



SoulPiercer -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/1/2008 4:31:24 PM)

Hi. Love the show. Thanks for taking my call.

My question is, what the hell does performing an exorcism have to do with weight loss??

I'll hang up and listen.



Strongmindbody -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/1/2008 4:42:44 PM)

Because people have one devil of a time losing weight. Duh!

[:D]



LilMissMisery -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/1/2008 4:56:30 PM)

Yeah, man, what's with blood pressure medicine? Can't people just stop eating so much salt? And seriously, women should just get pregnant. Then they wouldn't have menstrual cramps.

Yes, OP, there's a lot of self-control involved in staying thin - a healthy lifestyle is essential to maintaining a healthy body. But even if someone does develop that self-control after realizing they're so unhealthy, it's harder than you can imagine (presumably being toned to the perfect BMI for your height, and also perfectly maintained) to lose weight when one has been in a holding pattern for years and perhaps decades of foods and habits that are terrible for the body. Getting INTO a healthy, active lifestyle takes months, if not years, of maintenance. It's been likened to the recovery process from an addiction, in its potential for relapses. Sure, there are successes - but there are also failures.

And in cases where there is urgent, immediate need to lose weight, such as with a morbidly obese patient when there is a buildup of fat around internal organs that threatens their function, the gastric bypass surgery can be the single best and least invasive procedure that will afford the patient hope for a healthy lifestyle they can maintain. It can literally save lives, not just in the immediate sense of preventing further damage to the vitals but by literally forcing the patient to eat well for as long as the surgery is still effective.



Strongmindbody -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/1/2008 4:57:34 PM)

Ok, since we seem to have an appropriate readership of people who have struggled with weight from time to time, I would appreciate some feedback:

I have a buddy who is 6'5" and over 400 pounds. He now has diabetes. He has been unable to control his diet or his weight, although he did quit smoking last year. The problem is that the diabetes and other weight related health issues are likely to bring the big man down in the not too distant future (5 years likely). This is a life-impacting problem.

Objective: take two years, maybe three. Get healthy. And, yes, get poor.

My suggestion to him: retire early since work is the primary excuse to avoid diet and exercise (and he could afford to not work for a couple of years). Have meals delivered. Hire a personal trainer to come to the house every goddamn day. Get counseling and support. And yes, this is probably adding up to a a financial strain. But the alternative for him is a likely loss of life or limb that will keep him from using that money anyway (he's unmarried, no kids).

Question: would this likely work for you if you could do it, even if you made it a significant focus in your life? Or is it more likely to somehow fail just as diets tend to fail?



CalifChick -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/1/2008 5:08:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Strongmindbody
My suggestion to him: retire early since work is the primary excuse to avoid diet and exercise (and he could afford to not work for a couple of years). Have meals delivered. Hire a personal trainer to come to the house every goddamn day. Get counseling and support. And yes, this is probably adding up to a a financial strain. But the alternative for him is a likely loss of life or limb that will keep him from using that money anyway (he's unmarried, no kids).

Question: would this likely work for you if you could do it, even if you made it a significant focus in your life? Or is it more likely to somehow fail just as diets tend to fail?


I have a feeling it would fail for him because it is not coming from within him.  Does he truly, desperately want his life to be different?  I really think that is the key.  I have yet to personally see anyone make a permanent change in their body until they make a permanent change in their mind.  And right now he is all about excuses.  Having to work, even having to work an obscene amount of hours, is no excuse for eating any certain way.  And he is choosing to use it as a means to eat the food that temporarily causes him pleasure (but in the long run causes him pain).

Does he have other avenues of obtaining pleasure other than eating?

Cali





hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/1/2008 6:57:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Strongmindbody

Objective: take two years, maybe three. Get healthy. And, yes, get poor.

My suggestion to him: retire early since work is the primary excuse to avoid diet and exercise (and he could afford to not work for a couple of years). Have meals delivered. Hire a personal trainer to come to the house every goddamn day. Get counseling and support. And yes, this is probably adding up to a a financial strain. But the alternative for him is a likely loss of life or limb that will keep him from using that money anyway (he's unmarried, no kids).  


If he loves his job - perhaps suggesting making some changes that accomodate still working would be better suited.  Walk during breaks and lunch hour, and if he happens to live close enough to work to do so - to and from work while the weather is accomodating.  Having meals delivered leaves to much room to fall back to having something seriously Loaded with fat and to many calories delivered at other times - like Pizza or other fast foods.  Taking a once a week course with a nutristionist or healthy living chef would be a better choice - they could teach him both how much to make, and good (and usually Easy) recipes with a lot of variety, that still fall within caloric and health conscious choices.  That would also give him the Exercise (yes, it's exercise, as it is Movement) og getting up and going into the kitchen or outside to the grill, and fixing his own fresh and tastey, healthy food.  Counseling/support are a great idea - and the support starts with YOU, as  his friend, supporting and praising his efforts.

quote:

Question: would this likely work for you if you could do it, even if you made it a significant focus in your life? Or is it more likely to somehow fail just as diets tend to fail?


I doubt such means would necessarily be More effective for me than those I'm already persuing - but I'm having a great deal of sucess at this point with my current course of action - medication, strict diet that I'm exercising self control to follow (a small miracle in and of itself for me, according to some of my friends lol) and starting an exercise program 2 days a week 1.5 hours per day including weights, cardio, anarobic, arobic, pool, and saunas, as well as a half hour walk each day early in the morning before it starts heating up. 
 
For me, hiring a personal trainer to come to my house every day would actually probably work in Reverse.  It would give me an excuse to become even more of a recluse than I already tend to be.



Hanable -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/1/2008 10:25:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyRainfire

Hanable, I never said it was easy. Go back to my post. I said "The one thing I've learned in this life, often the hard way, is that people see us the way we see ourselves." I added the emphasis this time since apparently it was missed the first time. No, you can't change your mother. But you can change your reactions to her. Not overnight, that's unrealistic. But in time, with practice. Starting with little things. She says "A", instead of responding with "B" or thinking "B" you stop and make yourself think of say  - "E".You'll screw up, make mistakes, but say ok and keep on trying. Tell yourself "ok, I did it!" when you succeed even once and keep on trying. I know this from personal experience because I'm still dealing with some issues with my mother. I worked long and hard to move on from the major issues of my childhood. 

On finding new people to be around, that depends so much on where you are and personal circumstances. For myself, I actually needed to take some "alone" time and just primarily be by myself, not really have a lot of people around me. Not family, not friends, no one. Eh, except a few cats. They were great company for me. [:)] Slowly, when I was able to work with people again, I was careful about who I was around. I knew I was in a fragile state. I confided in one or two people I could trust and they helped me. Perhaps you have someone similar to help you. A friend or minister? Teacher or counselor?

Good luck and best wishes.



i didnt miss it.. i ignored it.. i know its gonnabe hard and u telling me only adds to how much i think ur yelling at me.. stop telling me what i already know ok. its not that simple.. and no im not jsut making excuses.. she has a mental illness... bipolar manic depression.. i can change how i react to her a million times and shell still yell and scream at me cuz im either being a bitch or jsut cuz she feels like it. i truely do not think i can succeed in a fight/argument agaisnt her.

i like being alone.. so i need to be around more ppl i guess but.. i live 8 miles fromt he nearest town.. and with the price of gas i jsut cant go drive to be around ppl.. friends or not.

i dont really have that many friends any more.. they all kinda moved on with their lives and i.. well i havent.. not really religious.. the pastor where i do go is a wack job. not in school so i dont have a teacher or a counciler.

H >:) 



sirsholly -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/2/2008 4:05:27 AM)

LadyRainFire was not yelling at you. What she was trying to do was to offer you advice based on her personal experience...as was i. You simply do not want to hear it. It is your choice to keep making excuses for why you cannot help yourself. This is very sad. Open your eyes and look around you...what you will see are many happy people living full lives while yours is passing you by. I wish you luck...you will need it. 

outta here,
hol



beautyImurDaddy -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/2/2008 5:15:53 AM)

I considered gastric bypass surgery not too long ago.  Let me be the first to tell you, I know everything they tell you to do... and have even put it into actions.  5 small meals a day... been there done that... Atkins... passed out after 4 days... South Beach... cabbage soup diet (begs forgiveness of her daughters for having to be up with the gastric effects on that one) and the list goes on.  Long story short... i was killing myself because in today's mindset and societal standards, I was a fat, ugly, lazy, slob.  After YEARS of doing this, I had retired from my job and was forced to switch doctors because of a new insurance plan.  It was the most ironic thing that could have happened and potentially saved my life and that of my mother.  Unfortunately, many doctors themselves have certain biases towards heavier people.  You are diabetic?  It is because you are overweight.  Vision problems?  It is because you are diabetic.  By changing my doctor I learned that I had something much more serious than weight issues.  It was discovered that I had something called hypoparapituitarianism aka Cushings Disease.  Now before anyone tries to comment thats a cop out, let me give you a bit of insight into the disease.  Cushings Disease is a tumor on your pituitary gland.  Your pituity gland controls basically every function in your body from hormone and insulin regulation to metabolism.  I was given 3 options..  1.. i can undergo laser radiation therapy and constant monitoring to where if it gets over a certain size and no longer becomes effective I will HAVE to have surgery...2... have the "brain" surgery... or 3... leave it and do nothing and be dead in a few years.  I opted for the first option.  The whole reason my doctors were perplexed was that other than being severely overweight, I had all the stats of a healthy person.  My resting pulse was in a normal range, my blood pressure is normally around 96/60.  None of this made sense to them. They told me it was potentially hereditary and since my mother was having major health issues, I had her bring it up to her doctor.  She was not so lucky.  They were going to schedule her for surgery at the Mayo Clinic in 6 months.  The doctors after reading her scan, scheduled her for that Monday as they discovered hers was the size of a lemon and potentially fatal.

My point in all this rambling?  Just because someone is overweight by societal standards does not necessarily mean they are unhealthy.  I consume about 2000 calories just to maintain my current weight.  I walk several miles on a regular basis, which in the arizona heat, is equal to about a 2 hour work out.  I have not lost nor have I gained anything in several years... and yanno what.. I am happier than I have ever been in my life.  I understand that my medical condition is not the norm but the exception for most of those overweight.  Bottom line, I started dying to live... instead of living to not die.  No one, no matter what they weight, how many calories they take in or how much they exercise..... will live forever.  You started the thread by asking if diet and exercise would make you lose weight.  All I can tell you is, if that is something you want, then try it for yourself.  What works for one person, may not work for another.  If gastric bypass is the "jump start" you need to begin a more socially accepted healthy lifestyle... then go for it.  No one can tell you what is right for you BUT YOU! 

I wish you all the best of luck on whatever decision you make.



dcnovice -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/2/2008 8:34:53 AM)

Maybe they can't stop eating because they were emotionally scarred by experiences with sharp no-slip mats at the pool.



edgeofdavid -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/2/2008 8:38:44 AM)

No, actually. Some of them can't.

-david



YourhandMyAss -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/2/2008 4:45:58 PM)

DC That made me laugh out loud in real life.


DC So if they can't top eating cause they're scarred, does that mean I can't begin to eat cause I am also emotionally scarred.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Maybe they can't stop eating because they were emotionally scarred by experiences with sharp no-slip mats at the pool.



LaTigresse -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/2/2008 4:49:13 PM)

Using fast reply..............

Oh GOODY!!! Another "Fat Thread"!!!!!!!!!!

It's been awhile.



YourhandMyAss -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/2/2008 4:49:43 PM)

If she's as bad as you claim you have two options. suck it up and continue to be exposed to her and her illnesses or move out. If you already are moved out then cut all ties with her. Otherwise, you're willingly becoming her target by choosing to stay in her path and really have no room to complain.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanable

stop telling me what i already know ok. its not that simple.. and no im not jsut making excuses.. she has a mental illness... bipolar manic depression.. i can change how i react to her a million times and shell still yell and scream at me cuz im either being a bitch or jsut cuz she feels like it. i truely do not think i can succeed in a fight/argument agaisnt her.


H >:) 



dcnovice -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/2/2008 4:50:33 PM)

quote:

DC That made me laugh out loud in real life.


[:)]


quote:

DC So if they can't top eating cause they're scarred, does that mean I can't begin to eat cause I am also emotionally scarred.


I wouldn't rule it out.



TysGalilah -> RE: what's up with gastric bypass surguries, can't people just control eating an exorcise? (8/2/2008 5:32:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HutchGarahl

Ok...as one in consideration for Gastric Bypass.....

Diet and excersize doesn't always work. I've been overweight most of my life. I have been working with doctors and nutritionists for over 8 years now to try and loose weight. There is absolutely nothing wrong with my thyroids, yet I am unable to loose weight. I am constantly gaining. Sometimes, I swear I just look at food and I gain weight. I barely eat, so in some cases, it's not the amount of food going in that's causing weight gain. I am now standing at 300+. Over the period of these past eight years, I have develope health issues such as High blood pressure, low iron and high colesterol and am being monitored for diabetes. I am now loosing my ablility to walk. The doctors have put me in a wheelchair because my legs can no longer hold the wieght for long periods of time. I can walk for short distances, but need the use of crutches. So, you can see...getting this surgery is pretty much a life or death thing for me. Although I may still die..if I have this surgery, there's a chacnce on prlonging my life because of it.



Hutch
thank you for sharing your words and personal struggle so openly, something very personal and very private about a demon so many face each day but few understand and yet seem to judge shrouded by ignorance and ignorant statements..
 
Despite what this thread is conveying, there is much success and new found health in these surgeries now.  Many can be done laproscopically which considerably lowers the risks during surgery.   I'm sure you have researched all of this and know your surgeons record well.
 
In case you haven't found this on your own
here is a link to a site that has tons of support and invaluable information ....and information about the surgeons who preform them.
Obesity Help - Weight Loss Surgery, Obesity Support Groups, Obesity Forums, Su

I wish you a speedy Ins approval  ( thinking this is what you are waiting on when you use the term consideration ) ...speedy recovery and years of newfound joys and experiences that await you on the other side of surgery.
 
You have begun an amazing journey.
 
Cyndi



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