BDsM and abuse survivors (Full Version)

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leatherylace -> BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 7:50:47 AM)

So, I am a survivor of incest and my adoptive parents and my therapist thinks that the BDsM lifestyle is a reenactment of abuse. My Girlfriend, who has recently been exploring BDsM, has never experienced any abuse of any kind. I know that my involvement in the scene is not wholly based on my past abuse as my parents and therapist believe. Does anyone have an understanding of the psychology behind BDsM and a way to explain to my parents and therapist about how BDsM is not a reenactment (in most cases) of the abuse me or any other survivors have experience. Does anyone have any written recourses that I could give to them to help to understand the principles behind the lifestyle?



KittenWithaTwist -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 8:05:33 AM)

This is going to be a shitty response.

I think that some of what I do in BDSM, particularly the sex and s&m part, is a leftover from ...well, from what I experienced. I don't think there's anything wrong with that though. I am trying to get past it in the best way I know how, with a loving partner and...a whole lot of masochism.




Kyami -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 8:06:48 AM)

Well, I can not speak for others except for myself. I was never abused as a child, in any way shape or form. I grew up in a very loving, and nurturing environment. I have an excellent job, am an active member of my community, etc.
As to why I have chose to live this way? It is just who I am. I have had submissive tendencies for as long as I could remember. It's part of my makeup, so to speak. I don't try to analyze it, it's just there, and I accept it for what it is.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 8:13:32 AM)

This is who you are. The only thing you can tell them is that you are who you are and that many people are into this who have no history. Whether this is who you will continue to be is a matter of time and really not relevant to dealing with past abuse.

You should find a new therapist.

Now, it's very well possible that you ARE also interested in bdsm as a way to re-enact past issues and deal with things in a controlled setting. This does happen, and not that uncommonly so.

That doesn't mean it's not a healthy way to live also, and not who you are in orientation in general.



candystripper -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 8:44:47 AM)

i think submission is a terribly hard thing to do; requiring all a woman's (or man's) emotional strength. There's no one my age without "issues"; it's part of life. Barnacles attach themselves to you. i think it's possible to re-experience a strong man as a protector, lover and Dominant; but i also think it may be too soon for you. i don't know you, so i cannot say.

i am a pleasure submissive; i have no interest in pain or humiliation. There are Men who grasp this and feel the same way; not every Man wants to beat on a woman. One indicia of readiness i'd look for in you is whether you are drawn to the sadists and identify as a masocist. That would suggest to me you're comfortable only in a relationship where the abuse will be repeated. My sadist friemds probably would shine you on under these circumstances.

Abuse is like loss; after work and time, you make a new life with that experience woven into it but it is not the driving force in your life.

In the end, it is not your therapist's or parents' decision; it is yours. i wish you a happy life.

candystripper



plantlady64 -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 9:04:56 AM)

Hello There,
I was molested by my Father from an early age.
I feel being I was sexually awakened at such a young age that I'm more of a sexually oriented person than a lot of people who were not active till much later.
I don't think the BDSM play relates to my desire to re-live what happened between my father and I.
I think my desire to play comes from my desire for sensation play and submissive nature not a hang up from my childhood abuse.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne



pollux -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 9:20:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leatherylace

So, I am a survivor of incest and my adoptive parents and my therapist thinks that the BDsM lifestyle is a reenactment of abuse. My Girlfriend, who has recently been exploring BDsM, has never experienced any abuse of any kind. I know that my involvement in the scene is not wholly based on my past abuse as my parents and therapist believe. Does anyone have an understanding of the psychology behind BDsM and a way to explain to my parents and therapist about how BDsM is not a reenactment (in most cases) of the abuse me or any other survivors have experience. Does anyone have any written recourses that I could give to them to help to understand the principles behind the lifestyle?


leathery,

See my earlier post here.



Wolfie648 -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 9:25:56 AM)

quote:

i am a pleasure submissive; i have no interest in pain or humiliation. There are Men who grasp this and feel the same way; not every Man wants to beat on a woman. One indicia of readiness i'd look for in you is whether you are drawn to the sadists and identify as a masocist. That would suggest to me you're comfortable only in a relationship where the abuse will be repeated. My sadist friemds probably would shine you on under these circumstances.


Hmmm....

Perhaps I am misinterpreting but just because a male is a sadist (there are female equivalents out there too) _does not mean_ that the relationship is abusive.

Abuse happens to those that _do not (or are not able to) consent_.

Sadists (in this lifestyle) _do happen to those that consent_.

------------------

Now on to the poster's question

"I know that my involvement in the scene is not wholly based"

Well if it's not wholly based on it then it is _partially_ based on it. So what? Tell your therapist and adoptive parents it's your life you're ok (I can only assume that because you are in it) with it and what's the big deal (even if you are re-enacting)? Just because it isn't for them doesn't mean it's not for you. Your life, your choice.

D (owner of j)




pollux -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 9:32:22 AM)

Just a side point, as I see lots of posts that seem to focus on physical abuse...

Psychologists also recognize the phenomenon of emotional abuse -- and I've read that it is supposedly much, much more common than physical abuse.

Not that I necessarily want to encourage people to do this, but if you're interested in exploring the roots of what made you the way you are, don't overlook this possibility. Too much parental love (what the shrinks call "enmeshment") can be just as damaging as not enough. I suspect there are just as many submissive types who are dealing with enmeshment issues as there are those who have vestigial issues of physical abuse.

Standard disclaimer: a lot of people believe it's not too fruitful to explore these things, as it can lead to a culture of victimhood, blaming, and psycho-babble, etc. They'll say it's best to accept who you are and move forward from there, as you can't change the past anyhow. YMMV.

Edit: btw, this is a general reply to the thread -- and not specifically addressed to Wolfie.



thetammyjo -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 9:44:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

This is who you are. The only thing you can tell them is that you are who you are and that many people are into this who have no history. Whether this is who you will continue to be is a matter of time and really not relevant to dealing with past abuse.

You should find a new therapist.

Now, it's very well possible that you ARE also interested in bdsm as a way to re-enact past issues and deal with things in a controlled setting. This does happen, and not that uncommonly so.

That doesn't mean it's not a healthy way to live also, and not who you are in orientation in general.


I second this: get a new therapist!

I am a survivor but I'll tell you, if the abuse caused kink, I would be of the opposite orientation probably.

I think its a complex. A combination of experience, personality, and what we have access to in our adult lives.

I don't think my personality I could ever have been a submissive or a masochist but maybe an ocassional kink for fun person or maybe totally vanilla.

My family tried to raise me to be a slave -- that is so not who or what I am in any shape or form. They all failed in their mission thus showing me that we are very complex people.




redheadedfire4u -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 10:19:09 AM)

I am also a survivor (seems to be alot of em in L/s lol) I have found the first link on this thread "Academic theses on the BDSM lifestyle -" very intersting and casts quite a lot of light on your question... but basically I am here because of who I am and if I find some healing along the way thats a bonus ... I agree with the others ... do what feels right for you not what others think is right for you
warm smiles to all



smilezz -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 10:48:23 AM)

Completely awestruck once more that Abuse and BDSM are in the same sentance.

~smilezz~



Mercnbeth -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 10:57:29 AM)

quote:

my adoptive parents and my therapist thinks that the BDsM lifestyle is a reenactment of abuse.


leathery lace,
It's more important to know what YOU think rather than your parents and especially your "therapist".

Is your lifestyle activity something you feel a needs to be "cured"? If your lifestyle activities make you feel ultimately feel good and bring you happiness attempting a "cure" may be more harmful than embracing those feelings. Are you being hit with "guilt" for your enjoyment?

It's important to note that BDSM activity is by definition NOT abuse. Throughout the spectrum, from casual "one night sessions" to those with 24/7 live in arrangements with formal "contracts"; at some point there was acquiescence.

Every event that you remember from your past, and even some you don't remember are part of what you are today. That goes for the bad as well as the good. There is no escape from your memories. Today you are you because of them.

You may need to vocalize your abusive past. You need someone to hear what happened. It could be a great outlet for the anger and frustration of experiences that you had no control over when they happened. You can fight now and act out your anger in a way you couldn't when they occurred.

The therapy industry wants to associate current activity, defined by others as "destructive", with past trauma. There is no doubt what you experienced in the past was traumatic, but why is the association with BDSM? Maybe what occurred is the reason you don't drive a car well, or the reason you are afraid of heights, or causes you to have trouble with math. The point is your therapist can't point to any quantitative direct correlation with BDSM and abuse. But BDSM is a convenient and socially correct activity to blame.

For some, discovering "who to blame" IS the goal. I don't see it as yours since you've said; "I know that my involvement in the scene is not wholly based on my past abuse...".

You asked for some references, I've linked to some below. PLEASE use them as references and not dogma! Good LUCK!! Be well!

The Connection Between Kink & Abuse. (Bob King)
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6140/survkink.htm

Psychology of BDSM: (or, How Did We Get Like This?) (Mystress Angelique Serpent)
http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent/mind/psych.htm

BDSM & Abuse (Jack Rinella)
http://www.mastertaino.com/BDSM%20and%20Abuse.htm

From the Sexuality.Org site, this article includes local groups to contact for more information at the end. These may provide a "kink friendly" therapist, although the essay is dated February 1999.
How Can I discover My Own ********* Abuse? (William A. Henkin Ph.D)
http://www.sexuality.org/authors/henkin/att83.html



FelinePersuasion -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 11:01:59 AM)

Get a new therapist, one who's friendly to kinks or at least does not try to convince you it's just a way to excuse being abused again.

I was sexually molested all my child hood and I am into bdsm too and ageplay and my old therapist was wonderfull about understanding how ageplay could help me feel safe, but when I had to get a new therapist cause K went on to get liscenced my new one always tried to convince me bdsm was abusive and unhealthy and I was looking to be abused all over aagain. I kept trying to tell her nothing happend with out agreed consent and it was all very safe and consentual and blah blah blah.

She thought that nobody could susessfully reparent people with out being a trained professional, or that wanting to serve someone and bottom to them was just low self estem and abuse re enactment.


That and some other stuff really halted our ability to go forward in therapy and I left. Your therapist is never going to be convinced or shown bdsm isn't bad. No matter what you say or present the therapist is already convinced and already has made their minds up.



orfunboi -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 11:36:23 AM)

i can only speak for my self, however, i was never abused, in fact i was rarely spanked. Yet the thought of being put over a womens knee and spanked makes me wet. i don't see that there is any connection. Maybe a therapist who understands more about the lifestyle would help. A good therapist is hard to find, good luck.



slavejali -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 12:02:56 PM)

i was abused in my childhood, and i fell into my first husbands arms at 14 to get away from home, this relationship was abusive too. i stayed in this relationship for about 9 years. It wasnt until i was nearly dead that i left. If you have ever seen "Sleeping with the enemy" starring Julia Roberts, this movie really reflected my life with my first husband but add some children to the plot (even down to the folding of towels and things) it was really freaky for me to watch that movie the first time.

After i left my husband, i spent 6 months in a lesbian relationship, thinking i didnt like men. i was open to this relationship because during my marriage my husband had me participating in threesomes and things. It was probably because of that, i had Men boxed as abusive and woman boxed as caring. Reflecting back i think it was just a safe space for me to be in. i gave up the relationship when i just couldnt do it any longer and realised it wasnt in me to have a woman/woman relationship.

After this, i spent some years alone. Healing basically. Then enters my first Master and i think this was the beginning of my life. i wish i could find the post i did about this, cuz i expressed it well and i wouldnt have to retype it lol...but anyways...He showed me the world of slavery, female submission to a male, and He showed me that it was a beautiful thing. I realised a lot of things about myself, that i was naturally submissive when in relationship and that it was perfectly natural that my submissive/slave traits could be used by anyone, they would naturally attract abusers, but that, didnt have to be the case. He showed me that there were men out there who could love and appreciate their submissive/slave. He showed me that there was a conscious way we could live life, express my slavery and not have to die emotionally, physically and mentally from it.
He showed me that I didn’t have to feel guilty over enjoying strong sensations. Which is a whole other topic in itself but basically my history of abuse had led me to believe any kind of strong sensation was abusive, yet in having that belief I had closed a part of myself off. It came as a total shock to me the first day I begged for strong sensation (I’m deliberately not saying pain here). Anyway, my introduction to female slavery was the best thing that could have ever happened in my life, it awoke me, it was a very beautiful thing. I parted with my first Master, for reasons I’m not going to share, but I will always respect Him and recognize that He was a big part of my healing process.

I was pretty traumatized with this separation I wanted to run and hide. I spent the next 4 years looking after a friend who was very ill. No sex, no play, no nothing. He did have a Dominant personality though and so my slave cravings to submit and please and care for Him were fulfilled in that way. He thought my bdsm past was abusive, he could never understand it, but his attitude healed me in a way too as I could accept that he could never understand and just let him have his belief, knowing in myself that it wasn’t. He died after about 4 years.

I am now again in a beautiful Master/slave relationship. Is it a product of my past? Who cares. I’m happy and fulfilled. Im not abused. Im very in touch with the sensual aspect of relationship. I can play and explore all kinds of different sensations with my Master without any fear of it being *wrong*. I can submit to Him, knowing Im not abused but very much loved and cared for. I dunno, maybe past abuse can be a gift in a way, if it didn’t happen who knows where I would be today?

*** i do not give my permission for anything i share or write to be used in any form of publication, or referred to in any study or thesis. - a paranoid moment there , but hey *grin*



Wolfie648 -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 12:38:18 PM)

In addition to what I've already said:

I don't think your adoptive parents or therapist mean you harm - this is their way of trying to protect you from harm (as they see it).

Often times people (in any situation) will keep on telling you the same thing over and over...

I often find that they do so because _they believe_ you haven't heard them. I find it useful to verbally acknowledge their point and tell them that you have heard them, that you understand there may very well be consequences.

Then go on to say you want to do it anyways and that it is your choice and if they want to show their support of you they can do so by picking up the pieces if _their_ prediction comes true (you being 'damaged') without any 'I told you so's'.

D (owner of j)



ICGsteve -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 1:46:23 PM)

The fact is that survivors of childhood sexual abuse are unussually drawn to BDSM. The reason I have heard given for this most often is that this is a way to work through the abuse experiance while being in charge of the process, which to my mind is not exactly the same thing as "reEnactment" My wife is a survivor of CSA, and I have been active in healing communities for a number of years, and I don't buy it. I think that those who have been sexual from an early age, those who learned in childhood the power of sex and the relationship between power and sex, are drawn to explore this aspect of humanity. Our culture always wants to brush the dirty truth about power under the rug, does not want to talk about it or deal with it, but abuse survivors know that once the cat is out of the bag there is no going back to ignorance. Once surivors have learned in childhood through abuse of the relationship between sex and power it often becomes an itch the demands to be scratched. This is a good thing as there is much to be learned through BDSM.



slavejali -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 1:53:05 PM)

i just wanted to say, i really liked Your post ICGsteve



FTopinMichigan -> RE: BDsM and abuse survivors (11/17/2005 4:34:37 PM)

I can't help with understanding the lifestyle, but can relate my own experience.

I was sexually abused as a child. I silently suffered for many years, and was full of anger almost all the time. The anger was the saving alternative to my fears.

It took me a VERY long time to realize much about myself. I gained that knowledge mostly through speaking with others, and reading on my own. I came to realize so much about myself, and sometimes, even recently, questioned my very dominant personality, and how it related back to the abuse.

I do feel that some of my personality was forced by my situations of the past. Having NO control, sometimes makes someone go way overboard to grab control, all the time.

In understanding some of myself now, and understanding so many of my own reactions and behaviors, has allowed me to let go of the past, and to realize it's NOT something I had control over. Letting it all go has helped me to grow so much emotionally.

I know that my personality was built out of my life experiences. My involvement in BDSM...as far as I now, is no where related to my past experiences....but, my personality was formed out of my life.

I'm grateful for who I am today, and while I'd like to have had a few different chapters, for the beginning of my life, I'm not mourning who I am now. I've gotten to the point of liking myself, and not hating everyone else. It's a long journey, and I'm glad to have made it down the road.

I think the prevalence of "abuse" among lifestyle folks, is that lifestyle folks, in general, are for more apt to open up about themselves, over the vanilla population.

K



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