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America's November Decision - 8/2/2008 3:33:19 PM   
BIllCT


Posts: 160
Joined: 9/14/2004
Status: offline 		America's choice this year is based on two individuals of very different experiences and style as well as race.
I think americans need to stop now and look more closely at both of these people and try to determine who will turn the nation around economically and will get us out of both wars we are now in.
But I also think whomever is elected should have solid substantial solutions in each area we need changed.
My number one concern and i think for everyone in America should be the economy and jobs. THis country is losing jobs at an ungodly rate and it needs to be turned around immediately.
Two is the war in IRAQ and Afganistan and our people being there! Why are we still there and why were we there in the first place? There were no Weapons of Mass Destruction in  I raq and secondly why are we fighting in Afganistan, the Soviets lost there and it killed their military it will ours also.
Three Health care in The US,  many Americans can't keep jobs never mind get health care or afford it, why can't we adopt some form of the same health care plan like they did in Cananada and get health care for everyone? Yes the system is not perfect up there and there may be waiting times, but if the canadians can do it we can too and we can improve on what they did but use the same base plan they did.  Also who has the key to the gas crisis and oil crisis also here and who is willing to get us all immediate help for heating oil and gas?
 
When you go to the polls in November, you need to elect the man who will 1) DO his best to create and bringback jobs to this country. 2) Get us out of the wars we are in, use that money to create jobs, health care and educational care for our people and children.
 
When you vote in November 2008, remember this, The Republicans got you into IRAQ and AFGANISTAN, The Republicans shippe dyour jobs overseas, the Republicans have no clear health care plan for America, SOcial Security needs fixing, as well as Medicare, and Medicaid too. The Housing crisis exists and no one in politics is doing a damn thing to change it really. How many of us have to lose our homes, jobs and children in wars we did not want to fight, before America wakes up and votes out those who voted us into wars, sent out jobs overseas and who fail to get us health care and to repair Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid too. Wake up folks, your future is at stake  here and so is the future of your children and their children and  your grand and great grandchildren too. One final thing I want to say, many news agencies and newspapers and such are all over Barack Obama and it looks like he is their choice period., But I  want to point out to African Americans and everyone else one thing all need to look at, do not just vote for Obama because he is black or a African American, even if you are Afican American or not. For if you do so and vote him in just because of his race, and he has no substance to his policies or plans, you will not get your jobs back, your health care, your medicare or medicaid fixed or your social security either. And if this country period elects Obama just because he is the first viable African American to run and get his parties nomination you will make a big mistake. THis man has only three years in the Senate and no one is mentioning this either. Experience does mean something I think, but as I said once before no President current or in the past, really ever had the  experience of being a President till elected.  That goes all the way back to George Washington folks and each and every President since, what ya need to look at is, is the person logical, intelligent anddoes he have substance and can he pull off what he says or is he bullshitting you? You have less then 100 days to decide ladies and gents, start listening and  paying attention it is your future, your country and your childrens and grandchildrens and families in the future . Make sure you make an educated, itelligent vote in November and make these candidates answer the correct questions before you vote. Pretty boys, or just experience isn't the answer, we need substance and answers folks, lets do it right! What do you Think?

 
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RE: America's November Decision - 8/2/2008 3:56:39 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		If we're losing jobs like you claim, who's going to pay the 50% plus taxes to pay for "Universal Health" like Canadians & Europeans do?

The government already has a universal health plan for those who can't afford it, it's called Medicaid, and frankly it sucks. I really don't want the government deciding how much treatment I need, do you?

(in reply to BIllCT)
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RE: America's November Decision - 8/2/2008 4:09:46 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		At least you lot have something to decide, we in Britain have a tosser for a prime minister who is reaping what he has sown, and should stay there to experience his madness. His party are likewise losers and the viable opposition, there is no hope in them, we have not much to look forward to, there are no leaders waiting in the ranks to inspire, I feel we all look to America. The devil is, we have to be between America and Europe.

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RE: America's November Decision - 8/2/2008 4:09:58 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

If we're losing jobs like you claim, who's going to pay the 50% plus taxes to pay for "Universal Health" like Canadians & Europeans do?



Hey, if your going to produce a b/s figure, why not make it 80% ? Surely thats way more scary.

(in reply to subrob1967)
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RE: America's November Decision - 8/2/2008 4:31:22 PM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline 		gee, thanks for the pep talk OP.  i needed someone to steer me in the right direction and tell me to vote for the candidate i think will do the best job...hadn't thought of that approach yet.

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RE: America's November Decision - 8/2/2008 6:51:43 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		(putting down $1) Right here and right now! I'm betting that Bush and his asshole regime knows where Osama is, and will "capture" him sometime in October. (It's about the only way these creeps can be assured of a victory in November, by letting the war continue until then, racking up more dead troops, just so they can pull of this nifty "rabbit out of a hat" to keep themselves in power.)

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RE: America's November Decision - 8/2/2008 7:15:14 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Well I think you did an almost decent job of trying to hide your bias.

Let me guess, you get your news from The Huffington Post, Moveon.or, and Media-Matters...

You are absolutely right about a couple of things though.  There are less than 95 days now til the election, and folks really do need to look at the substance of policies being put forward by the candidates.

I will leave it at that for now,
Thadius

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RE: America's November Decision - 8/2/2008 7:22:43 PM   
proprietedeese


Posts: 15
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		1) The economy is where it is because we have people at the top of business and government with no scruples and have been robbing us blind. They send our jobs over seas and open the door for illegal aliens to do what work is left.

Obama, McCain will not fix the economy, WE will have to do it ourselves despite the thieves that occupy our capital.

2) GOP AND dems got us into the war. They both (dem and gop)voted to get us into Iraq and have both been doing there best to prolong it.

Obama and McCain can not get us out of the war they started, only the Iraqis can. As for Afghanistan and the greater WOT, this war started in 1979 not 9-11-01. If you really want to understand this fight you need to understand the history behind it. It was never about WMD. The soviets lost there because of the CIA not bin laden.

3) health care is  nightmare but a single payer system is not the answer. The only thing worse than ruthless CEOs with only there stock optionson their mind running our health care would be dumb ass politicans who only care about more  power and have their hands in the cookie jar.

The problem is cost. The cost of fake billing to insurance companies by hospitals, cost of worthless drugs, cost of over diagnosing because of fear of getting sued, cost of running a doctors office. Doctors prescribing drugs people dont need for kickbacks from the drug companies.

(in reply to bipolarber)
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RE: America's November Decision - 8/2/2008 8:28:37 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Im not so quick to conclude the choice is between 2 people.

Ron Paul.      He is the man.

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RE: America's November Decision - 8/2/2008 9:19:19 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

I'm betting that Bush and his asshole regime knows where Osama is, and will "capture" him sometime in October

Why on earth would they want him captured or killed?  Martyrs are one hundred times more dangerous than terrorists.


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RE: America's November Decision - 8/2/2008 9:46:31 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I'm betting that Bush and his asshole regime knows where Osama is, and will "capture" him sometime in October.


Wasn't that supposed to happen in the last election?

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RE: America's November Decision - 8/3/2008 12:16:22 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

  Hey, if your going to produce a b/s figure, why not make it 80% ? Surely thats way more scary.



These rates, together with provincial income tax rates, federal and provincial surtaxes, and provincial health premium taxes (both also calculated based on income), serve to create a combined top marginal tax rate that can approach 50% in some provinces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_taxes#Canada



The British income tax system is progressive with a number of bands: 10% (only applies to savings income and from April 2008 does not apply to earnings), 20% basic rate on UK dividends, investment income and income from employment/self employment (was 22% until April 2008), and (in respect of the higher rate band and all income on certain trusts) 32.5% on UK dividends and 40% on other sources[14] There are also a number of untaxed allowances (such as a personal allowance) to which tax bands do not apply. The tax is an annual tax and is reimposed each year in the annual Finance Act. In addition, the UK has a National Insurance contribution based on income.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_taxes#United_Kingdom

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RE: America's November Decision - 8/3/2008 12:19:32 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		1) There is no decision. The selection has been made for a long time now. Everything you see is a lie, intended legitimize the selection. Notice how Obama is *now* towing the line that we need more domestic exploration?

2) Your vote is *never* counted. Prove otherwise.

3) Try to enjoy the show. That's all it is.



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RE: America's November Decision - 8/3/2008 4:53:09 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

  Hey, if your going to produce a b/s figure, why not make it 80% ? Surely thats way more scary.



These rates, together with provincial income tax rates, federal and provincial surtaxes, and provincial health premium taxes (both also calculated based on income), serve to create a combined top marginal tax rate that can approach 50% in some provinces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_taxes#Canada



The British income tax system is progressive with a number of bands: 10% (only applies to savings income and from April 2008 does not apply to earnings), 20% basic rate on UK dividends, investment income and income from employment/self employment (was 22% until April 2008), and (in respect of the higher rate band and all income on certain trusts) 32.5% on UK dividends and 40% on other sources[14] There are also a number of untaxed allowances (such as a personal allowance) to which tax bands do not apply. The tax is an annual tax and is reimposed each year in the annual Finance Act. In addition, the UK has a National Insurance contribution based on income.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_taxes#United_Kingdom


Thats not what i was disputing. Subrob claimed those tax amounts would be spent on healthcare, if there was a single system, which isnt the case. In fact in the UK health spending is only about 8.5 % of GDP if memory serves.

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RE: America's November Decision - 8/3/2008 5:49:18 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Well since we are getting into policies on taxes...

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/ED-AH950A_boski_20080728182013.gif 

This is just his proposed tax changes so far... it doesn't include the proposals on the AMT (The current proposal by Charlie Rangel is a hike in the marginal rate by 4.6% with out being able to deduct state income taxes).

How is a  marginal tax rate close to 70% going to help the economy?  Damn I keep forgetting it is the government's duty to create jobs, those folks making more than $250k are just leeches on society.

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RE: America's November Decision - 8/3/2008 6:12:22 AM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I think that one item that does seem to slip past a lot of peoples minds is that whomever is elected as president can't do his job alone.  A democratic president with a house and senate run by republicans, or vise-versa has a much tougher time getting his policies put in place than when he has the backing of the legislature.  Even if he has only a simple majority on his side many of of his ideas can be blocked by petulant members of the other party. Personally, i don't too much like either of the choices for president this time around.  Any chance Jessie Ventura might run?  I didn't always agree with him but at least he said what he meant, meant what he said, didn't take a bunch guff, and didn't kowtow to special interests....at least from what i know of him.

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RE: America's November Decision - 8/3/2008 6:17:01 AM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		I talk with African Americans quite a bit about Obama.  They realize one person cannot change everything.
One party cannot change everything.
It starts with us.   We have to start changing how we think and  live.
The bottom line is America has gotten so far away from its original values that we are sinking like quick sand.
It will take at least three years to get out of the mess we are in.
I thought I would never say this, but my own Bill Clinton was the prime one who sold us out to Nafta mnd Bush to Mexico amd Iraq.
I never  want to see another Bush  or Clinton  in the Whitehouse.
 
Regards, MissSCD
 
Obama 2008
 
 

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RE: America's November Decision - 8/3/2008 9:04:14 AM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003
Any chance Jessie Ventura might run?  I didn't always agree with him but at least he said what he meant, meant what he said, didn't take a bunch guff, and didn't kowtow to special interests....at least from what i know of him.


He was considering running for Norm Coleman's senate seat, but decided not to.  I didn't think he was going to run - he's really enjoying his relaxed semi-expat life and would have to give that up.  I think he's just popped up recently because like most of the country he doesn't like the way things are now.  Unlike most of the country, he can get a public platform to speak his piece.  I think that's really what the senate thing was about - it brought him back into the spotlight.

I agree with his position on many issues.  I voted for him for governator, I wouldn't have voted for him for a second term.  He got some things done, but he was incredibly thin-skinned and a big whiner.  When the legislators didn't get on board with him he bitched and moaned - a strategy that did not get the people of MN behind him.  The press loved him during the campaign, and he could have cultivated that and used it to his advantage, but he couldn't take criticism of any kind and responded to it with what boiled down to, "It's not fair!  Stop pickin' on me!"  The only Minnesota press he'll talk to is now the MN Public Radio because all of the others were mean to him.  I heard him a few weeks ago, and it seems that his experiences have made him very cynical and pissed off at the world.  He sounds a lot like he did when he was on the wrestling shows.  Still, I'm glad he's out there saying what he has to say because I do agree with him on a lot of stuff.  I wish he'd calm down, though, and I'm really glad that he's not running for anything.

If you really want a fabulous presidential candidate, you should try to draft the guy Jesse wanted for the Reform Party candidate for senate in 2000, and who was the Independence Party candidate for governor in 2002 - Tim Penny.  I think that he would have won if Jesse hadn't been such a disappointment and scared a lot of folks out of voting 3rd party.  Penny has always been very independent on the issues, listens to what all interested parties have to say and tries to make the best decision he can.  When I don't agree with him on a particular issue, I tend to take a closer look to see where he's coming from because I know that his position isn't influenced by partisanship or expediency.  

I'd be all for a Draft Tim Penny movement, but I doubt he'd be interested.  The really sad thing to me is that I'll bet there are a lot of people like him out there, excellent legislators who've pretty much dropped out and aren't where we need them to be, doing the jobs we need them to do.  Perhaps we could get together a list of all of these folks and start a movement to force them all back into office.

(in reply to igor2003)
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RE: America's November Decision - 8/3/2008 9:58:17 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Thats not what i was disputing. Subrob claimed those tax amounts would be spent on healthcare, if there was a single system, which isnt the case. In fact in the UK health spending is only about 8.5 % of GDP if memory serves.


Seems a pretty straightforward reading that he was saying that the monies to pay for that health care system raised the tax rates to exorbitant levels.... not that half of people's incomes were taken just for health care, before they were taxed to pay for everything else.

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RE: America's November Decision - 8/3/2008 10:02:21 AM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		I'm hoping to put off this November decision until December, or beyond.

6

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