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Justified but wrong - 8/5/2008 5:19:30 PM

OmegaG

Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
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Today we made a plan before going out. While out it seemed smart to me to amend the plan but at the time I wasn't getting any communication from him so I was left to make a decision on my own, I made the amendment.

Later I found out that I wasn't getting any communication because at the time he felt that no amendment was neccessary. He found out that the total costs of the amendment were less then the original percieved cost.

So now he feels that the decision I made was appropriate but I still feel awful. I wish that I hadn't altered the plan, I wish he hadn't gotten frustrated with me, I wish there wasn't any moments when he felt that I was going against him.

Is there ever a time when being justified in a decision is better then following his wishes?

_____________________________

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

Post #: 1

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/5/2008 5:35:34 PM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

Don't you guys talk to each other? I don't really see what the problem here is.

Master expects me to have good judgement, and sometimes, my judgement or perspective is differant and in the end more productive (or I suppose better) than his. If we win in the long run, he doesn't get bogged down with who's idea it was and neither do I.

If it's money we saved, then more the better.

PL

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 2

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/5/2008 7:15:25 PM

StrongSpirit

Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline

If you are 'not getting any communication' for a choice, then you can always phrase things carefully. Try something like this:

"I am leaning towards ...."

This has several advantages for a submissive woman that does not want to be assertive, annoying, or make the wrong decision.

1. It's not definitive, so you don't sound like you are being too assertive.

2. The statement is rarely annoying. It is just a statement, not a question about what he thinks. This way, if he does not care either way, he can just ignore it.

3. If the man disagrees, he knows what your thinking and has the opportunity to speak up. If he doesn't, it is his fault.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

Post #: 3

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/5/2008 7:46:13 PM

Huntertn

Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline

Hey, thats a good ideal. And I don't think it quailifies as topping from the bottom either.at least no one can say they didn't know what you ment later...

(in reply to StrongSpirit)

Post #: 4

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/5/2008 7:50:42 PM

Alonzo50

Posts: 16
Joined: 7/18/2008
From: California
Status: offline

If it involves safety, pet has standing orders to do whatever her judgment tells her to. Otherwise, she discusses it with me, or the following applies, "Its better to be obedient than right."

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 5

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/5/2008 7:53:45 PM

opposingtwilight

Posts: 684
Joined: 6/13/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

Today we made a plan before going out. While out it seemed smart to me to amend the plan but at the time I wasn't getting any communication from him so I was left to make a decision on my own, I made the amendment.

Later I found out that I wasn't getting any communication because at the time he felt that no amendment was neccessary. He found out that the total costs of the amendment were less then the original percieved cost.

So now he feels that the decision I made was appropriate but I still feel awful. I wish that I hadn't altered the plan, I wish he hadn't gotten frustrated with me, I wish there wasn't any moments when he felt that I was going against him.

Is there ever a time when being justified in a decision is better then following his wishes?

I think I understand what you're saying and how you're feeling. The thing is, dominants aren't perfect and sometimes as a submissive you will pick up on something he missed and thats ok. I liked StrongSpirit's suggestion on how to broach the topic but for now I think it might help for you to consider that it ended well and obviously your dominant isn't -still- frustrated with you. Don't be too hard on yourself. Its all good.

_____________________________

Dr Horrible's Sing-A-Long Blog

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 6

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/5/2008 7:57:25 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG
Is there ever a time when being justified in a decision is better then following his wishes?

Depends *g*

Do I know without any uncertainty what he wants, when he wants it, where he wants it and how he wants it?
Do I have the skills to make what he wants happen?
Do I have the opportunity to complete what he wants?

If the answer is no to any of these questions and I am not able to communicate with him, then I am allowed to make a decision.

That being said, it may turn out that he doesn't like my decision and we will have a discussion about what he would have preferred to have happened instead. If he does like the decision but he doesn't think I did enough to communicate with him, then he will tell me what I should have done instead.

These situations are extremely rare in our life (especially since I have moved here) because there is rarely any time that I am not able to communicate with him. For the most part, I will not alter what he wants without his approval just because I think that it is better. My job is to focus on the task at hand. His job is to worry about the big picture. I may not always know the big picture and by altering the task at hand without his approval, I may make a bigger mess of things.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 7

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/5/2008 8:56:44 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

Depends on the inner strength of the man-stubborness not being particularly strong.

Which rules in the hierarchal order in him, his ego or his reason?

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 8

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/5/2008 9:13:57 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

This is a common catch 22. He gave you an "order" that you didn't follow....BAD. He gave you an "order" that you thought you couldn't follow and you did the best you could....GOOD. You changed it as best you could keeping in mind what you know about his preferences....GREAT.

However, as a dominant, it is sometimes hard to figure out exactly where on the continuum the action falls and without knowing that, it is hard to proceed. One on hand you are too soft, the other too pigheaded. However, communicating without blame, discussing and hearing why she choose to do as she did, looking together for ways for the dominant to be both clearer and more flexible, as well as ways for the submissive to make the best choices takes time.

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 9

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/5/2008 9:43:07 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

Or The Dominant can have the wisdom and humility to realize that service can be both kind and cruel. It is a mirror in which he sees himself reflected. Sometimes what we see is good, some times bad.

Peace, and the feeling of being centered in your own universe comes when you can gaze into that mirror without fear.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 10

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/5/2008 11:35:58 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

Is there ever a time when being justified in a decision is better then following his wishes?

For us it happens fairly often. If I see that another brand of something is on sale and know he likes that as well, I'll get that instead of what I was sent to buy. But he has delegated the authority to make these decisions without consulting him. If I was right, I get positive feedback. If not, negative and that helps me make future decisions.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 11

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/5/2008 11:49:09 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Or The Dominant can have the wisdom and humility to realize that service can be both kind and cruel. It is a mirror in which he sees himself reflected. Sometimes what we see is good, some times bad.

Peace, and the feeling of being centered in your own universe comes when you can gaze into that mirror without fear.

This is a really interesting post. Thanks for writing it.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 12

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/6/2008 3:18:03 AM

MRandme

Posts: 661
Joined: 9/24/2007
Status: offline

One of the traits my Master likes about me is my intelligence and that He does not have to micro-manage me. i am expected to use my judgment when things are not clear. i am to obey, but to be smart in doing so.

i suggest you take these feelings to Sojourner and let Him decide if they have merit. A wise Man often tells me that it isn't my job to beat myself up over a mistake. If punishment is due, that is His job and then it is over and done. If Sojourner doesn't feel that you have failed Him, then you are wasting time and energy that could be better spent serving Him, over something that isn't even an issue.

_____________________________

And thus i conclude with a wish you go well,
Sweet be your dreams, may your happiness swell,
I'll leave you here, for my journey begins
i've gone to be with Him again...

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 13

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/6/2008 4:38:18 AM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

Last night we were discussing mobile phone bills ... His = huge ... mine = maximus. We think we found the solution (skype through a mobile .. yaaaay) He tells me to call vodafone, check my internet charges, get them to guarantee the price plan, to monitor my call charges to check how much its costs - blah blah. Conversation goes like this.
Me: *nodsnodsnods* at the webcam
DV: So you're going to do all that tomorrow right?
Me: *shakes head* No Sir
DV: Why?
Me: Because I did that all yesterday in the vodafone shop, with the manager, and confirmed it with them on the phone this morning, with the area supervisor, and expect written confirmation of that from vodafone in the next few days.
DV: *stony silence*
Me: This is one of those moments where if I was there ... I would have your boot up my ass isn't it Sir?
DV: *nodsnods at the cam*
Me: Ah .... errrr ... am being an infuriating cunt aren't I?
DV: *nodsnods at the cam*
Me: *works really hard to stiffle laughter*
DV: Now what did we agree that you should do in moments like this, when you are being an infuriating know it all slut?
Me: *puts on best moronic bimbo face, blinks slowly, wide vacant smile,* Oh Master! I would never have thought of that, you are sooooo clever, what would I do without you!

Part of the reason Sir took me into service is that I get shit done, calmly, efficiently, effectively. I can be relied upon to get things done, to the same standard that He can. He doesn't much care how stuff gets done, as long as it gets done to His standards, I can do things my way if it works out the same as His way, if my way doesn't ... we do it His way.

Thing is, Sir always has to be right, so when I am doing something my way, I have to give Him the credit for it .... and behave like a vapid bimbo while doing it. I even get to be bossy with Sir ... as long as it is done with the moron bimbo face ... or while Inga, Olga or Helga give Him head.

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to MRandme)

Post #: 14

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/6/2008 5:27:21 AM

housesub4you

Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline

My Domme assigns results, how i get there is up to me. She has no need or desire to micro manage me, that would just be more work for Her, i'm in Her service to make Her life easier.

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 15

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/6/2008 5:59:49 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Hi OP, here are my thoughts based on what you stated. The way i see it is simple -- you made a decision, if he felt you need discipline because you have somehow disregarded your place in his life -- he will discipline you. If he feels next time he wants you to handle it differently, but existed in your place while making a decision he would have rather you handled differently, take note and get over it. If he was frustrated because you did something and then he got over it and chooses to accept your decision because of its benefits -- again, get over it. The longer you sit and wallow in this to me is you still attempting to control the situation as you are on some level feeling he should deal with your doings differently instead of how he has. You are a slave who took matters into your own hands and now, you are still attempting to keep them in your own hands and control things by feeling badly instead of accepting his decision on your actions.

I may be off here in your thinking but based on your words, it seems to me you are not satisfied with his acceptance an are still trying to control the situation based on your wallowing in self-pity for lack of better words. Get over it and recognize he is the Master and he has accepted it hindsight and doesn't believe you need any discipline other than what you have already had via his disappointment initially. Now its time to move on before he decides to discipline you for your continued indirect attempt to manipulate his decision to accept your actions.

Not sure if this makes sense lol i haven't had my coffee yet. Sometimes in slavery, a slave can make a decision that may initially cause frustration but not step outside her place as his slave, and many times it may take some realization after the frustration for a Master to see the whole picture when his frustration was focused on a part. When he realizes she did not step outside her place, he usually accepts it and recognizes that initial frustrations aren't always an indication a woman has stepped out of her place in his life. You have to recognize he defines when you step out of the place in his life he determines you to be in, not you.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 8/6/2008 6:04:05 AM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to housesub4you)

Post #: 16

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/6/2008 6:17:23 AM

OmegaG

Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Hi OP, here are my thoughts based on what you stated. The way i see it is simple -- you made a decision, if he felt you need discipline because you have somehow disregarded your place in his life -- he will discipline you. If he feels next time he wants you to handle it differently, but existed in your place while making a decision he would have rather you handled differently, take note and get over it. If he was frustrated because you did something and then he got over it and chooses to accept your decision because of its benefits -- again, get over it. The longer you sit and wallow in this to me is you still attempting to control the situation as you are on some level feeling he should deal with your doings differently instead of how he has. You are a slave who took matters into your own hands and now, you are still attempting to keep them in your own hands and control things by feeling badly instead of accepting his decision on your actions.

I may be off here in your thinking but based on your words, it seems to me you are not satisfied with his acceptance an are still trying to control the situation based on your wallowing in self-pity for lack of better words. Get over it and recognize he is the Master and he has accepted it hindsight and doesn't believe you need any discipline other than what you have already had via his disappointment initially. Now its time to move on before he decides to discipline you for your continued indirect attempt to manipulate his decision to accept your actions.

Not sure if this makes sense lol i haven't had my coffee yet. Sometimes in slavery, a slave can make a decision that may initially cause frustration but not step outside her place as his slave, and many times it may take some realization after the frustration for a Master to see the whole picture when his frustration was focused on a part. When he realizes she did not step outside her place, he usually accepts it and recognizes that initial frustrations aren't always an indication a woman has stepped out of her place in his life. You have to recognize he defines when you step out of the place in his life he determines you to be in, not you.

angel

Well, I never said I wasn't a control freak (yes, he got that disclaimer early on)

We talked more last night because it was eating up at me. Basically, I was bothered that there was any time that he was frustrated with me, add to it that he had something else on his mind which was causing him to be a bit introverted yet we had other passengers in the car so open communication had to wait.... anyway, it was partially a lack of seeing things the same way it was partially my reading his attitude at the time in a very ego-centric way.

To cut to the chase, no, he wasn't micromanaging. We'd driven 45 minutes to buy one thing, I bought 2, he thought the original thing was more then twice as much as it was, I spent less then half as much as what he was thinking and I saved a trip back to get the second thing. He ordered me to stop thinking about it, that he's work on assuming less and checking facts more and I know a bit more about how to read his body language when communication is temporarily hindered.

I also came to a bit of an epithany. I've disagreed with partners in the past and I've made independent decisions which where correct despite their misgivings or oposition. I've never felt so damned bad about someone being upset with me before.

_____________________________

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 17

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/6/2008 6:42:09 AM

wisteriaV

Posts: 438
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline

Master has one basic over ride rule that Im allowed to use. IF it saves him money, time, effort in the long run then I can do it no matter what. IE: Buy 1 get 1 free, buying an item in bulk or waiting a week knowing we are getting a good sale going on. I have a friend thats a grocery store manager and he lets me know what the sales are ahead of time so I can save money.... This day n age saving means everything.

_____________________________

Every story has two sides , much like a coin and neither one is totally perfect.
If it doesn't float your boat, then don't get in the water~!

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 18

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/6/2008 9:17:42 AM

Dnomyar

Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline

Mmmm he asked you to swallow and you spit. Not good.

(in reply to wisteriaV)

Post #: 19

RE: Justified but wrong - 8/6/2008 9:20:30 AM

SirMIkeSD

Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline

Most things I will just tell the boy to deal with it and all I care about is the end result. If I go to the trouble of telling him how I want it done, then that's how I want it done I don't care about this or that but have a specific reason for the way I told him. Then if does not follow that I am pissed, but there are not many things that I really care about how it is done, in the end it's the results.

Mike

(in reply to wisteriaV)

Post #: 20

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