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RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 1:53:55 PM   
OnlyHisLovebug


Posts: 56
Joined: 7/14/2008
Status: offline 		why is the collar offerred so freely and then taken so lightly?
This would be a case by case explanation.  Sometimes, it is not offered freely OR taken lightly.  When it is, it would only be possible to know why by knowing the details from the people in any given relationship.

what do some think it takes to FULLY submit?
I can only answer from my POV.  It takes commitment, dedication, trust and faith in my Partner.  It takes the time to build a foundation where He has earned the belief I have that His authority is worth fully submitting to.

it's easily placed around a neck, and then taken for granted.....
Not in my case.  Not even remotely.

please don't flame...ok reply by saying a collar is easily placed around the neck of someone who easily accepts it ok ok....
but WHAT does a collar mean these days...a bit of velcro???
Probably, to some people.  To some people, a collar means nothing- to others, it means the world- and there are a zillion other meanings sandwiched between those two spectrums. 

or
locked and then you have to phone the owner to ask for the keys?
Sometimes, sure...other times...a collar is not even really a collar.  The material part of it is pretty much irrelevant.  It's what it represents to the individuals that matter.

or you have to ask on your public profile because he refuses all contact?
I doubt I'd ask it on a public profile, because the answers lie within me.  Just because somebody else has disregard for the collar, or the relationship, it does not change what it means to me as a symbol.   Liken it to a wedding ring.  I can get divorced, but I still see wedding rings as a sign of commitment.  The particular ring that I wore wih my ex- hubby lost it's individual meaning for me.
But, just because I was in a failed relationship, I certainly do not look at all wedding rings any differently.    

or refuses to accept you just want to take the damn thing off because it was meaningless in the first place once they got the sex????
Again, depends on what it means to the person wearing it.  But, If the commitment is no longer there, what does it matter if they accept that you want to take it off or not?  The relationship ends regardless of where the collar is...or it does not end.  I went through a really rocky year with my Master- and I think most would have taken off the collar and left.  I didn't- because it meant something to me, He meant something to me.  The collar represented, to me,  that I had (at the very least) given Him the commitment to be willing to TRY to work through the rough spots.  Turned out to be the best decision I ever made.    

or they thought they had collared you for life and therefore you would take any sadistic crap? 
It would seem that some folks do see a collar in exactly that light.  Some people don't believe you can just walk away from it.  In those instances, it mostly seems to be tied to the beliefs of the people in the relationship.  It's a YMMV thing...


< Message edited by OnlyHisLovebug -- 8/7/2008 1:55:03 PM >

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If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I. ~Michel de Montaigne

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RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 2:24:48 PM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Some however, consider every next partner as perfect till proven otherwise despite being proven otherwise nearly every time.  They trust themselves even though they shouldn't.   THOSE are the ones we tend to tell to slow the fuck down, which is not the same as saying "if you go fast you MUST be an idiot"


hi michael,

im not nitpicking at you, but this is an important point.

everyone godbless them, must enter into a relationship believing that it has the potential of perfection - why else would you enter a relationship. to enter a relationship any other way would be self defeating? self limiting? pointless?

and just because relationships fail and lets face it, every one of us has moved on from a relationship, for whatever reason, but usually because it fails, we dont leave a relationship because its wonderful - does that mean a person should give up faith and become bitter twisted and sceptical.  how can you enter a relationship expecting it to fail - what would be the point.

to be an optomist, to have spirit and fire and the determination to believe that this time, this time dammit, its going to work shows a commendable open heart that truth to tell, should be nurtured and wondered at and admired.

just saying.. xx

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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 2:27:27 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Actually, not everyone enters into a relationship expecting, or even hoping for, perfection.

Some of us do not believe in perfection. Some of us do not want perfection.


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 2:29:51 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Any Relationship is an evolution between two people...

You can have a meaningful relationship with somebody without collaring right away.

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 2:41:45 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Can you look back and see the pattern?

What is it about patterns?
Patterns an be patterns and yet still be chaotic.
Now fractals yes...there's a better word and one I understand.
Sorry to be so pedantic about a word.
In any case I tend to adhere to the school of thought which I call existential phenomenological. In other words everything, althogh we would like to subsume it to a pattern, everything is just the way it is...a unique phenomena. Takes a bit getting used to living in a phenomenological world but my psychological and philosophical and spiritual gurus are just that: living in a here and now phenomenological world.
What I do see is a heavy dose of behaviourial conformity and inflation of self-concept here on the boards. And that's projected; so that every question I ask which raises a topic must therefore be about ME.
In simple words; they did it twice or three times like this, therefore what it means is this and therefire since they have done it before you, or more times than you, it therefore must mean that very same thing to you.
Personally if I were in my 20's right now I'd be shit scared to raise an issue on a thread like this in case I be shot down by the conformists telling me that their behavioral patterns must mean I should do it this way.
Thanks for the question. I really really appreciate the intention behind the question truly.
But in answeer to your question; NO I DON'T SEE THE PATTERN. If you do then it's your seeing the pattern and that's all it is.
I say hey babe...take a walk on the wild side.......


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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 2:44:56 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

Any Relationship is an evolution between two people...

You can have a meaningful relationship with somebody without collaring right away.

Then maybe it's possible to have a meaningful relationship that lasted 24 hours, or even within a telephone converstation. It might even be possible to have a meaningless one that lasts 25 years. I know a few marrieds who seem to have done just that.
all I am saying is that in this instance the words used and the action taken felt like it was meaningful when the collar was placed around my neck. but you know my personal stuff is NOT the topic of the thread.



_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 2:46:06 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		WHATEVER the collar means, I think the most important thing is that it means the same thing to BOTH parties.

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 3:08:17 PM   
UR2Badored


Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3
im not nitpicking at you, but this is an important point.

everyone godbless them, must enter into a relationship believing that it has the potential of perfection - ...


Ditto on the not nitpicking at you part, but this is an important point.

If EVERYONE MUST do this, it explains why we see so many reruns on collarme.  Proceeding with caution really isnt that entertaining. (or makes a hot topic thread--shugs) 
never mind me, it's just the ramblings of a pessimist. 

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 8/7/2008 3:43:21 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 3:20:22 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

WHATEVER the collar means, I think the most important thing is that it means the same thing to BOTH parties.

hallelujah......(sp? )

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 8/7/2008 3:21:59 PM >

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 3:44:16 PM   
Deliena


Posts: 623
Joined: 6/16/2007
From: Darlington, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

WHATEVER the collar means, I think the most important thing is that it means the same thing to BOTH parties.

hallelujah......(sp? )


Hehe thank the FSM - does that mean some sanity might be restored around here?  /giggles and ducks

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 4:26:21 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		Ya know, it seems that in the scene people are owning others and giving out collars like it was some junior high school thing. Is it a going steady ring that is going to turn your finger green? A lettermans jacket? One minute owned and collared, the next, 2 weeks or 4 weeks later, its over?


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RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 5:02:01 PM   
NeedingMore220


Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3
there are two schools here in this world.  one that says a sub should not dictate the pace, should relinquish herself in order for the D to know she can and to allow them to take the lead.  this is what we have done, and it hasnt worked out for us.  so the other school says, take it slow, take your time, see no value in a collar given too soon, no matter how perfectly everything is going.  it isnt enough to submit yourself and think that will carry everything along, that submission is the only glue required.  submission is the ultimate goal, the icing on the cake - but first we have to make sure the ingredients are correct to bake that cake and it doesnt come out all flat and crispy (like my victoria sponges always do!... why is that by the way!)

love and hugs. xx


I'm no Betty Crocker, so I can't help with the sponge cake (though I'd love a slice, thanks!)   But I have to say ... I'm entering into a new relationship currently and have learned over this past year the meaning and value of a collar to me, and guess what ... I don't want one anytime soon from him.  I used to think that was the ultimate goal - and perhaps it is down the road.  But my more short-term goal is to really learn the person I am submitting to, the whole person, inside and out, and to allow him to see the full me as well, so that we can both feel secure about a collaring, should it be determined down the road that this is our path.  I'm in no rush.  I'm determined to enjoy the ride.  Being swept away by lust, frenzy, emotion, is all well and good, but it sure as hell isn't reality.  And it isn't collar-worthy to me. 

(in reply to lally3)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 6:24:47 PM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Actually, not everyone enters into a relationship expecting, or even hoping for, perfection.

Some of us do not believe in perfection. Some of us do not want perfection.



yup youre right - generalisations based from one perspective is annoying.. sorry.

and anyway, there is no such thing...

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RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 6:35:19 PM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UR2Badored

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3
im not nitpicking at you, but this is an important point.

everyone godbless them, must enter into a relationship believing that it has the potential of perfection - ...


Ditto on the not nitpicking at you part, but this is an important point.

If EVERYONE MUST do this, it explains why we see so many reruns on collarme.  Proceeding with caution really isnt that entertaining. (or makes a hot topic thread--shugs) 
never mind me, it's just the ramblings of a pessimist. 


.. actually, if i had my hour back, id delete that now.

what i think i meant was that to start a relationship there needs to be some belief that it has the potential to work - that would have been a much better way of putting it.

and by the way, what does a person learn from swinging a cat by its tail... im really curious about that quote.. and cute kittie, is it yours.

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RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/7/2008 6:36:53 PM   
NeedingMore220


Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

What I have found is that regardless of how personal someone is getting, how much someone is flaming, your harshest critics are your greatest teachers. I got alot of flames directed my way when I joined these boards. Spent time trying to get affirmation for what I wanted to hear. The truth hurts.


I've found that the people who are closest to me - when they are at their harshest, they are my greatest teachers.  Not people on the boards (though I certainly haven't started many threads, if any under this screenname - there have been issues others have posted on which I related closely to).  There's no way that anyone on here, unless we've met in RT, know me and all the circumstances, so I always take what is said with a grain of salt. 

I find it difficult when joining a forum not to fall in with what everyone is saying - not to accept as gospel truth the 'conventional wisdoms' even if they are shared by those with thousands of posts.  I've found it important for myself to read what is shared and then doing some thinking on my own when something is bothering me, sometimes realizing that the advice was spot-on; other times realizing it was not. 

And when I have a special person in my life, I turn to him for his advice and counsel. 

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RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/8/2008 12:07:48 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

quote:

ORIGINAL: UR2Badored

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3
im not nitpicking at you, but this is an important point.

everyone godbless them, must enter into a relationship believing that it has the potential of perfection - ...


Ditto on the not nitpicking at you part, but this is an important point.

If EVERYONE MUST do this, it explains why we see so many reruns on collarme.  Proceeding with caution really isnt that entertaining. (or makes a hot topic thread--shugs) 
never mind me, it's just the ramblings of a pessimist. 


.. actually, if i had my hour back, id delete that now.

what i think i meant was that to start a relationship there needs to be some belief that it has the potential to work - that would have been a much better way of putting it.

and by the way, what does a person learn from swinging a cat by its tail... im really curious about that quote.. and cute kittie, is it yours.


I don't know lally.  I believe you are on to something, I would simply replace the word 'perfection' with 'success'.

'everyone godbless them, must enter into a relationship believing that it has the potential of sucess'

If people don't and are completely pessimistic all the time and expect failiure, they will dream it into existance.  And if you expect nothing much - that is exactly what you will get.
 
I have BBC news on now, and they are discussing the Olympics - big news?  Not really, but the presenter was reporting on the practise sessions of the opening ceremony - talking about how they were 'practising and chasing perfection.'
 
I think that for most people, that is pretty much true in life.
 
the.dark.

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RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/8/2008 1:42:17 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

Any Relationship is an evolution between two people...

You can have a meaningful relationship with somebody without collaring right away.

Then maybe it's possible to have a meaningful relationship that lasted 24 hours, or even within a telephone converstation. It might even be possible to have a meaningless one that lasts 25 years. I know a few marrieds who seem to have done just that.
all I am saying is that in this instance the words used and the action taken felt like it was meaningful when the collar was placed around my neck. but you know my personal stuff is NOT the topic of the thread.




Pointing my finger at the word "Evolution" above.   Where that takes time and energy of two people...  

I really don't want to get too technical about the word "Evolution" and all the convoluted meanings to different people. I would hope  the context and the intended use of the word should be clear to most people.


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RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/8/2008 1:43:53 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Ya know, it seems that in the scene people are owning others and giving out collars like it was some junior high school thing. Is it a going steady ring that is going to turn your finger green? A lettermans jacket? One minute owned and collared, the next, 2 weeks or 4 weeks later, its over?



Ditto on that one!!!!!!!!!

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/8/2008 2:28:42 AM   
pixidustpet


Posts: 857
Joined: 6/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

Any Relationship is an evolution between two people...

You can have a meaningful relationship with somebody without collaring right away.


i'm thinking about this.  i really think that you can replace the word "collaring" in this sentence with marrying, jumping into bed, scening...hmm.

maybe the collar should be a goal rather than just an activity.  i'm thinking of my own actions here, bear with me.  for me, i really need to have a grasp of where i stand.  i need to know *who* i am in relationship to my partner(s).  that's a bit of my own odd makeup, and i accept it...i dont need to know that yeah, you wanna marry me in X amount of time, but i do need to know how you consider me.

one gentleman i was talking to here at collarme really blew up at that...all i had asked him was "what would i be to you?"  i just needed my label so that i knew where i stood.  he took it to mean "i want a collar NOW".  when i was talking to Daddy, i asked him the same question, and he said "eventually if things go like i think they will, i will collar you."  ok, i can grasp that, and 6 months after we started talking, he collared me.

in november last year, i had the tables turned on me....TheEngineer asked me "what do you want of me, what do you want to be to me?" and i had to think about it.  my answer was "whatever you can give, given that we're over a thousand miles away from one another, and i know its difficult".  that was good enough for both of us.  it didnt stay that way, obviously, but we both knew what to expect of each other.  and things have just gotten better and better.

i have the responsibility to TheEngineer as his future wife and as his sub to communicate with him.  the collar is one of those things that we have communicated about...he understands my view that it is a physical reminder of how i feel to be HIS, and under his control/guidance/hand.  same thing with Daddy, it was a physical *thing* i could hold on to between visits, and now that we can no longer see one another it is a reminder that even though we are parted, he still loves me and wants me in his life.

(Daddy refuses to release me.  TheEngineer knows this.  Daddy holds one piece of my heart forever, and TheEngineer gets the rest of it, and me.  we are all [mostly] content with this.)

a collar is an object that we fill with meaning, domiant and submissive alike.   we dont always see eye to eye on exactly *what* that meaning is...and that's where we find ourselves in trouble.  one-true-way-ism just doesnt fit, there will always be someone crying out "but i thought it meant (fill in the blank)!!"  and others standing back rolling their eyes at the lack of communication between the dominant and the submissive. 

my collars say to me "once, james loved me".  "once, fallcon loved me".  and if we still love after death, they still do.  "Daddy loves me enough to allow me to be happy in someone else's arms".  he loves me enough to agree that i should move from florida to texas knowing there is a probability that we will not be together physically again.  "TheEngineer wants me as his own".  that is my engagement ring....and the gold chain he bought me for my birthday.

then again, those are the things i have discussed with those who are above me (by my choice) and what we understand together.


kitten, sleepless again

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: in it for what they can get out of it and out of it... - 8/8/2008 3:53:35 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		I have heard a saying many times that
"you teach people how to treat you"
If one is picking the same person(in different forms) over and over again
Blush of excitement, hasty collaring and quickly over then either they are \
indeed picking similar types or yes they are saying" treat me this way"

They say the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result.

I personally woke up to a fact(rather recently, I think) that I do not have give my body, heart and soul away without a Man(yes, hes not my Master until I make him mine) earning it gradually. But then again, I am a submissive that likes to be valued. I have found that most don't value things as much unless they earned it. Especially most men who are a competitive bunch.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

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Profile   Post #: 140
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