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an old saying - 11/18/2005 3:32:00 PM

JalisMaster

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theres an old saying.. a retaliatory strike is still an attack even though it was delivered from a defensive posture.

that said.. I'm interested in opinions on what the people here think is necessary defense? what is it that you feel needs to be defended? to me there's very little in life that actually requires retaliation or defense. most volatile scenarios are completely disengaged by simple avoidance. avoidance doesn't mean acceptance.. it means is it worth it.

a few examples of how I feel.. my thoughts, words and or writings.. are opinions.. does it really matter to me what anyone else thinks about them?...my actions..unless my action is deemed unlawful , immoral or otherwise unfit by todays society.. does what anyone else think about what I do really matter? the things that I do believe are to be defended.. my loved ones, societies values ( to a point) and my own life.. beyond that..

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RE: an old saying - 11/18/2005 3:44:45 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JalisMaster
my actions..unless my action is deemed unlawful , immoral or otherwise unfit by todays society.. does what anyone else think about what I do really matter? the things that I do believe are to be defended.. my loved ones, societies values ( to a point) and my own life.. beyond that..

A lot of my actions are deemed unlawful, immoral and otherwise unfit by society...including bdsm society.

But being defensive is rarely the way to go. Pick your battles.

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RE: an old saying - 11/18/2005 3:46:18 PM

subaltern1

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well, Jalis, I am very much do unto others....

if some whippersnapperDom or surlysub wants to cast doubt on my parentage or trades insults then I will let them know that they will get it back in equal measure and then some. I know that might be childish, but Master allows me that.

In terms of real life, a rape or a deliberate violation of hard limits might be grounds for retaliation. I know it happens. There was a Dom in Sydney I know who got "dealt to" by a Kangaroo court because of their behaviour...and I think that is poetic justice, my friend.

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RE: an old saying - 11/18/2005 4:11:24 PM

MissDiandSirHugh

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To us we may feel hurt by things said about us and what we do both in this life style and in the other life style which if it was said in a derogatory way could bring a very harsh response but as soon as its out of either of our mouths the feeling sets in that F**K I have just sunk to the level of the person who first began the insult so just walk away both on line or in public.
Our responses to things in writing are our thoughts alone and not something to get upset over as in being challenged in thoughts makes each feel what we put has been read and interest taken even if not agreed with or thought highly of.
As to actions other than those in BDSM we would not consider doing any thing unlawful but may do out of not thinking do small ones only like speeding or parking wrong that sort of thing not rape or break and enter the but we are sure all understand what we mean here.
In BDSM as to actions we would also never cross any limits that others have or allow that to happen by others either if we were with those who proclaim they have no limits we do our selves so know what we would and would not do no matter what.
Now the last statement will get the "You ain't Doms Brigade Going " but we don't give a royal S**T we know what we are not them.

< Message edited by MissDiandSirHugh -- 11/18/2005 4:13:53 PM >

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RE: an old saying - 11/18/2005 4:16:11 PM

subaltern1

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care to elaborate and quantify re "unlawful and immoral" ?

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RE: an old saying - 11/18/2005 7:16:28 PM

jamesthehumanrug

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jalis massa
greetings
humans are a "gregarious species" ,but ,then ,again ,so are wolves....
of course what you do (even what you are )effects, others
you cant get violent ,unless it's professional sports(seemy there too...),or,by mutual consent ,in bed ,or its self defense period, so you gotta' keep your hands, off, others period (personally:i always feel like it's no thankyou i had mine ,if someone wants, to fight)
even ,if you say ok why dont we step ,outside- according, to one judge, that is considered the first blow; and ,who took the first blow is the lawful question.
personally,again:i was universally oriented ,but i was surrounded ,by primates .i found i should have defended my self ,because, if you dont ;see how ,that effects you ,and ,or the victims' survival.
self esteem comes, from ,others ,as it is defined, by psychology
and ,80 % ,of the influence ,on you ,and, your behavior comes, from your environment, so who makes, up your environment?
constant confrontation is illegal ,either doing it ,or having ,to handle it, and words alone shall never provoke a violent attack, or you are guilty....
as far ,as defense ,and, retalliation ebing interchangable or implied by the ,exsistance of the other; who are you trying ,to b.s.
it comes from 2 different worlds ,and ,2 different types ,of people...,
either you subscribe, to defending yourself and people in general ,or you subscribe ,to vengence ,and ,retalliation ,and, get even dogmas...
IF YOU'RE TALKING SOME TOPIC OF BEING INto S AND M community NEEDING DEFENSE; IT DEPENDS WHOS WHO ,AND ,WHERE YOU ARE DOES'NT IT.
did you ever try ,to ask a sick person ,IN REGARDS ,TO RETALLIATION:why DID YOU DO ,THAT ....you don't wanna know- believe me -there are always reasons and theyll tell you too....,if you do ask and you get into details with that person ,you are implied ,as,too g.d.interested,or sick ,also, and ,when you get caught retalliating -no one is gonna ask you WHY,
any educated person never asks why
",just tell me HOW...."
one more personal -example:
i wanna skin the guys alive,that killed my momma ,and, i wanna watch it>
retalliation,or defense?
sick,or ,not ?
wanna know why? ,or how?

< Message edited by jamesthehumanrug -- 11/18/2005 7:52:08 PM >

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RE: an old saying - 11/18/2005 8:31:58 PM

FangsNfeet

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When you mess with the bull you get hooked by the horns.

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RE: an old saying - 11/18/2005 10:18:51 PM

MrThorns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JalisMaster

that said.. I'm interested in opinions on what the people here think is necessary defense? what is it that you feel needs to be defended?

My life, the life of my family, those who are unable to defend themselves and the rights provided to me by the constitution which governs my country.

Most everything else (to me) is more or less based on opinion and personal values/beliefs. I can't change someone's belief system, no matter how badly I may want to and to try and do so is an exercise in futility.

(Don't get me wrong..I'll still argue, but mostly because I enjoy the debate...not because I feel some compelling need to defend a point of view.)

Defending an opinion is much like trying to change someone's belief system. In the end, one simply has to accept the fact that other people feel differently about a particular subject...and move on.

~Thorns

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RE: an old saying - 11/18/2005 10:56:53 PM

OscarHargraves

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There are lots of things in life worth defending. Life, liberty, my country, our way of life, my family and my friends. Defending yourself in writing is also acceptable at times and proper. The amount of defense is (or should be) dictated by the offense and the circumstances at the time. Sometimes the best defense is to laugh and walk away. Other times I have found that an accurately delivered and well timed 2000 lb precision guided bomb will do nicely. It just depends.

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RE: an old saying - 11/18/2005 11:02:21 PM

Padriag

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A curious question for this forum, since you didn't related it directly to the lifestyle. The answer is simple enough... we defend that which we value, excepting those cases where we deem the effort greater than the value. That's it... apply it to anything and I think you'll find its true.

Taking myself as an example... threaten my life and you'll find you have tiger by the tail. I have a very deep and abiding aversion to dying... I often joke I plan to live forever, or die trying... and actually, its not a joke. Threaten my life and I'll fight like a tiger to live.

Some however, when their life is threatened, give up... does that mean they don't want to live? Not necessarily, it may be simply they feel the pain that they might have to endure to continue living isn't worth the effort... they value avoiding the pain more than they value their life.

We always choose what we value most. Or as Emerson put it, "What you do speaks so loudly I cannot hear what you say." Actions really do speak louder than words. Our actions often speak of what we truly value.

So what do I think requires defending... whatever I value... whether that be my life, my personal freedoms, my property, my livelihood, another individual I value... I will defend what I value, to the extent I value it.

There is one other condition... we defend what we value, to the extent we value it, and in direct proportion to the perceived threat. That is, if one does not perceive a threat, one makes no defense... and if one perceived a threat, one makes a defense even if there is no actual threat. That's paranoia... a defense against imagined threats. One who truly values nothing (and I question whether such an individual is possible), could not be paranoid, you cannot feel threatened if you value nothing... its the fools attempt to escape fear, by valuing nothing. Naivete is in some ways the inability to correctly perceive threats.

So judging from your original remarks you don't value the opinion of others much as it regards what you do... you don't perceive it as a threat so you feel no need to make a defense. QED If someone else makes a defense, its because they perceive those same opinions or remarks as a threat to them in some way. Perception is so much a part of who we are and what we do you know.

Its not just beauty that is in the eye of the beholder... it is the whole of the world.

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RE: an old saying - 11/19/2005 12:04:26 AM

Marquisd

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Hello Jalis.

As for me I live by a few things that keep my blood pressure a constant 110/70 (I think that's good for a 6'3" person)

A) I have no expectations of anyone..........ergo I can not be disappointed

B) I do not try to get even........I get ahead

C) There is nothing I can do to a person that they have not done to themselves

This works for me.................so I don't have the need to defend something...............They are my posession and since no one can steal my mind...............I will hold on to them without an act of agression of any kind..

cheers

Marquisd

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RE: an old saying - 11/19/2005 12:14:35 AM

JalisMaster

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There wasn't any reference to this lifestyle because I was simply curious

I appreciate the feedback so far thanks one and all. a few posts that I really enjoyed were Thorns, Padriag, and Marquisd..again ,thanks one and all for the input

< Message edited by JalisMaster -- 11/19/2005 12:17:18 AM >

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RE: an old saying - 11/19/2005 3:28:31 AM

slavejali

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well You got 10 posts Master so now im allowed to reply (that was our deal).

i would defend someone who i thought was being treated unjustly and who seemed to need help.

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