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treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 8:32:23 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Disclaimer:

This is in no way directed at or meant to offend anyone into animal play.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen comments on here like "He's your Dom not your boyfriend" and "You're a slave, so he doesn't have to acknowledge your birthday or introduce you to his family or friends" in response to complaints of being treated like a dirty lil secret. How many of you who have made such comments have friendly pets? Do you hide your pets from friends and family when they visit? Why would you hide a person you're seeing on a regular basis? Why is it ok for a Dom to treat someone who worships the ground they walk on worse than an animal? Obviously, it's not consentual in these cases or the sub/slave wouldn't be complaining. I think far too many forget that emotional sadism needs to be consentual too.

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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 8:51:47 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		Actually, it *is* consentual in all the cases I've read here on the boards:  People staying because they choose to, while choosing to whine about it.  Not liking something isn't the same as it being non-consentual, we consent just in the course of a normal day to lots and lots of things we don't like.

"S/he isn't nice to me how I want them to be; oh, and I'm going over to their house tonight for  a date" isn't non-consentual.  It's just whiny and refusing to take personal responsibility for the fact that you're consenting to that treatment.

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 8:58:24 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I wouldn't be so fast to label it "emotional sadism".  I'm probably a little more realistic in my thoughts on this... perhap some would call it jaded, even, but I believe a good number of the men who show up on the scene as "dominants" do so because they have no interest in anything other than an easy and regular piece of ass with none of the hassels of a personal relationship.  I suspect these men have gone through bad marriages or uneasy experiences with clingy girlfriends, and the idea of having a woman they can use, control and keep at arms length seems a dream come true.  I don't think these men consider it to be sadistic on their part... it's just... convenient for them.

Of course, to be fair, there are many types of D/s relationships and not all of them involve personal affection.  Not every submissive wants to be their dominant's "girlfriend" and some have no interest in being thought of as "the little woman"... and some dominants would prefer that arrangement, as well.  There's nothing wrong with that.

The biggest problem with the relationships in the types of posts that you mention, is that for one reason or another, the sub and dom involve didn't choose their partner very well.  What is so hard about finding out if someone has compatible ideas and goals before you are collared?

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 9:05:39 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		If they continue to put up with it after they have unsuccessfully tried to speak to the Dom and resolve the situation. But what about the responses I've read? They act like "sub" and "slave" are  synonyms for dirty lil secret.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 9:05:53 PM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline 		if there is a case of emotional/physical sadism that isn't consentual, then the non consenting party needs to speak up or leave.  if that party can't speak for themselves then i don't know what to say really.  be an adult and look out for yourself.  it isn't an issue of perpretator/victim here, (well not in the healthy adult world it isn't).  if you/a person is struggling with this then separate yourself and gather your thoughts and strength and go from there.  look out for YOU, i dont' know what else to say here really.

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 9:14:01 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

I don't think these men consider it to be sadistic on their part... it's just... convenient for them.

I disagree and here's why. There are many women out there seeking no strings fun. If convenience is what these men want, they will pick someone seeking no strings fun. If they don't, they are definitely emotional sadists.

What is so hard about finding out if someone has compatible ideas and goals before you are collared?


It would be quite simple if people didn't lie about their intentions. They wait until the other party has developed strong feelings before revealing the truth. Same goes for Doms agreeing to a monogamous relationship, then expecting the sub to accept poly a year later or she's not a "true sub"

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 8/6/2008 9:19:07 PM >

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 9:15:33 PM   
Surrenderwithin


Posts: 368
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline 		I am sure there are some people who find a sense of fulfillment from feeling self- sacrificial in said situation... thus consenting at some internal level.

Maggi

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 9:24:55 PM   
katie978


Posts: 352
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline 		  Would you introduce a fuck buddy to your parents? Celebrate their birthday with them?

  In both of the situations you mentioned from the boards, the slave/sub had deluded themselves into believe the dominant was their twue wuv, when the dominants had made it completely clear that they considered the slave a fuck toy.

Yes, in some cases, a slave or sub is a "dirty little secret". She might be "the other woman". The dom might believe that a submissive can't ever be a girlfriend. However, in these cases, it's not as though the sub was unsuspecting. Doms that think submissives are just a nasty girl they can use on the side throw off tons of red flags that reflect that. Although some poor deluded subbies ignore them, you don't wind up a year into a relationship with someone who doesn't care about you to do more than acknowledge your holes without having some concept that they feel that way.

Basically, these girls, in some way, consented to be treated like that. They got involved with a man who didn't seek what they saught, or pretended to seek it and then showed a different face. They're the ones responsible for staying when the dom shows their true face.


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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 9:25:28 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		This thread is a discussion of what I have read here on the boards. It in no way reflects on my relationship with my Sir. In fact, one of the first things he did after we met was introduce me to his vanilla friends. We plan to be married before the end of the year.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 9:32:39 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: katie978

Would you introduce a fuck buddy to your parents? Celebrate their birthday with them?


First of all, I wouldn't fuck anybody I considered a buddy. It's against my morals. Secondly, not everyone is an expert at noticing red flags. If a Dom says "I'm seeking a casual fuck buddy" and the sub agrees thinking she can convince him to change his mind, it is her fault. However, if the Dom lies about his intentions, it is his fault.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 10:46:33 PM   
SocialPerversion


Posts: 28
Joined: 3/21/2008
From: Northern Nevada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
It would be quite simple if people didn't lie about their intentions. They wait until the other party has developed strong feelings before revealing the truth. Same goes for Doms agreeing to a monogamous relationship, then expecting the sub to accept poly a year later or she's not a "true sub"

The issue in many cases seems to be a lack of communication.

As far as the Dom agreeing to a monogamous relationship then changing a year later could just be due to personal growth. My girl and I have both done many things that in the past were expressed hard limits, as we got rid of our own fears and personal issues we grew because of our relationship. It is my firm feelings that everyone should re-evaluate their "limits" and "dislikes" every 6 months to a year because of this reason.

When surrender4love and I got together it was agreed that we would be monogamous, with the personal growth we have experienced we are both now open to play and even bringing someone else in full time in the future. Just because someone wants to discuss something that was a limit in the past does not mean that they lied to you, it could just mean that they have grown and wish to discuss it (not saying this is always the case, there are lots of liars out there.)

I think that often people forget that the lifestyle really requires more communication then in vanilla relationships because the rules have changed, people like to give or take collars and assume that the rest will take care of itself.

Communication, Communication, Communication... it can never be stated enough and everyone should use it as a personal BDSM mantra for anything outside of quick fuck play. About %75 of the relationship questions on here can be answered by "Communication!".

As far as it "not being consensual" you are making assumptions based on YOUR experiences, wants and desires... I assure you there are a LOT of people in the lifestyle who want to be treated as animals and as objects. Its a kink and what you see as odd or unacceptable others see as life, just because you don't understand it gives you no real right to question their decisions. Those who find themselves in a situation they do not like have to take personal responsibility for the choices they have made and either communicate their desires or change their situation.

Communication, communication, communication... if you tell someone you will take their collar and be their slave you better make sure you have properly expressed your desires and limits...

Communication and personal responsibility are the keys. We are all adults and we are the only ones we can blame when we make bad decisions.

It should also be noted that not every Master, Dom or Top are looking to get married, either is every slave, sub or bottom... congrats on finding one who does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
First of all, I wouldn't fuck anybody I considered a buddy. It's against my morals.

I highlighted the key word in your response, your morals do not match my own or many others. Just because I make a decision that does not match your morals does not make my decision wrong. Same with most other people on here.

~~conquer4love~~

< Message edited by SocialPerversion -- 8/6/2008 10:54:19 PM >

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 11:23:59 PM   
sillyslaveboy


Posts: 169
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline 		As i've seen the topic name, i had image of my ex-Mistress making me drag a boat through deep mud and using a bull whip on me every second till i get unconscious. No that didn't happen :), but on many occassions i was treated in a way that could qualify for "worse than animal". And yes, i liked it.

But it never happened that She doesn't recognize me publically as something Hers (boyfriend, friend, playboy, slave, dog, shopping assistant, whatever) or to miss my birthday to prepare me a beautiful party just to remind me why i call Her Mistress.

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/6/2008 11:36:09 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Just to clarify the other part of your statement... the part about "worse than animals"

Are you suggesting that putting the dog out in the yard when you have company is cruel?  So then how could not having your slave meet certain company be any worse, or different than that?

I haven't yet found an occasion where I have wanted to hide my girl from anybody, I really can't see where I would.  I simply enjoy her service to much to have thought about that as a reasonable solution for my situtation.  I also would not condemn somebody else for wishing to put the pet away while family was over, it is their choice.

I still remember the first time my mother met my girl, we went over for dinner, I was relaxing on the couch and she was at my feet.  My mother asked "Why don't you sit on the couch, where it is more comfortable?" To which my eldest daughter replied, "she isn't allowed on the furniture".  Ah good times...

To get more to your point though, both sides of any relationship have a responsibility to themselves to know who they are getting involved with, and for whether they stay there.  I don't want to point fingers at either side of the kneel, but since your topic is about subs/slaves commenting about not being part of their "partner's" vanilla life.  How many of these women entered into the relationship knowing that it was going to be simply for use and play, or service oriented; then months later discover they have serious feelings for the person they are serving, and begin to convince themselves that it is only a matter of time before he/she will take it to the next level?  Even if the domly type person has been consistant in their position and treatment of the subly type, it is not uncommon for the person on their knees to begin to read more into it than what was agreed upon.

Just my opinions,
Thadius

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/7/2008 12:25:23 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Disclaimer:

This is in no way directed at or meant to offend anyone into animal play.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen comments on here like "He's your Dom not your boyfriend" and "You're a slave, so he doesn't have to acknowledge your birthday or introduce you to his family or friends" in response to complaints of being treated like a dirty lil secret. How many of you who have made such comments have friendly pets? Do you hide your pets from friends and family when they visit? Why would you hide a person you're seeing on a regular basis? Why is it ok for a Dom to treat someone who worships the ground they walk on worse than an animal? Obviously, it's not consentual in these cases or the sub/slave wouldn't be complaining. I think far too many forget that emotional sadism needs to be consentual too.


  1. He is my Owner and not my boyfriend ... entirely different relationship exists there .. different values, different expectations. He is held to different standards, I do not expect to be treated like a girlfriend.
  2. Basic problem ... I am a slave, not a house pet. I could be a house pet type of slave, but thats not the creature I am, and thats not the relationship I am in.
  3. I dont think they are treating them worse than animals, I think you are making a poor comparison in order to create an emotive reaction in people. Its a common, and poorly used rhetorical device.
  4. Obviously it is consensual for as long as that person is staying in the relationship. Its called tacit consent. Just because they are not jumping around waving a glittery spangled magic consent flag doesn't mean consent isn't present.

Stop applying your normative and fairly conservative relationship standards to relationships you have no understanding of.

I have never been introduced to His family, when I live there I will be the nanny or the au pair, not a lover or a girlfriend. If He forgets my birthday, he forgets it, if He remembers ... fantastic. I get treated like a slave in His home ... sometimes that means well, sometimes that means badly. I'm a slave, I am meat, I am a thing used for service like His car. Being a pampered princess is not what I signed up for. If that was what I wanted I would have found some Daddy to let me behave exactly as I wanted and tell me how fantastic I was, and allowed me to stamp my feet when I didn't get my own way.

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/7/2008 1:30:56 AM   
AllietheKitten


Posts: 115
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

Actually, it *is* consentual in all the cases I've read here on the boards:  People staying because they choose to, while choosing to whine about it.  Not liking something isn't the same as it being non-consentual, we consent just in the course of a normal day to lots and lots of things we don't like.

"S/he isn't nice to me how I want them to be; oh, and I'm going over to their house tonight for  a date" isn't non-consentual.  It's just whiny and refusing to take personal responsibility for the fact that you're consenting to that treatment.



I completely second this! I get so mad at my girlfriend's bitching about how inconsiderate their boyfriends are. But can you suggest they dump them? Hell no, then you become the *enemy*. Sigh-Dunno why some people are dumb.

PS. I think that's going to be my new personal motto: Why are people so dumb?

_____________________________

I don't believe in Destiny
Or the guiding hand of Fate
I don't believe in forever
of love as a mystical state
But I believe there's a ghost of a chance
We can find someone to love and make it last.
~Rush

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/7/2008 1:33:00 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		It's not always the dom.

Sometimes it's just a sub making mountains out of mole hills.

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/7/2008 1:41:31 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		Well first of all, if my cats could talk, I sure as hell wouldn't let them meet my family!  One of the nice things about animals is you can trust them to not tell on ya!  I really can't see where a Dominant is obligated to introduce His submissive or His pet or His horse or His fuzzy slippers to His family!

Not every relationship is Love.  I've had several Dominants in the past who I wouldn't dream of introducing to my family, not because they were a dirty secret but because they were none of my family's freaking business.  We enjoyed a fabulous D/s relationship because our relationship goals matched.

It is wrong to assume everyone needs to conform to a single [read YOUR] definition of what a D/s or M/s or BDSM relationship should be.

The key to successful relationships is a shared goal and that's where communication plays such a big role.  There are a pleathora of "submissives" who never tell their Dominant that they want a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship,  They submit and tell themselves it's gonna be like in the fairy tales, he'll just fall in love with them and then come here and bitch because he didn't. A Dominant isn't a boyfriend a Master isn't a lover no more than a boyfriend is a Master.  Sheesh.  Sometimes, they are all of those things but sometimes they are not.

Sweetie, I have always had the relationships I wanted because I was clear about what I wanted from the get-go.



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No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/7/2008 7:08:48 AM   
NextDoorMan


Posts: 15
Joined: 8/3/2008
Status: offline 		While I am not so sure about the title of the thread, I totally understand where defiantbadgirl is coming from.  Just becuase someone is submissive doesn't mean that in day to day life they shouldn't be respected. 

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/7/2008 8:36:42 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		You get the relationship you asked for.

My furry babies are spoiled rotten. They lounge about on the leather furniture, they sleep in my bed. Neither of those things will be as freely allowed to the female slave that is coming to me in October. If people come over, she will disappear to an unused part of the house. To some unknowing observer, that would be terrible treatment.

To someone that is aware of her strengths and weaknesses, aware of her needs and my own.....it is perfectly fine. The reality is that she would not be happy serving any other way.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: treating subs/slaves worse than animals - 8/7/2008 9:08:26 AM   
Dari


Posts: 192
Joined: 10/8/2007
Status: offline 		I'm not "out" to my family.  They know I'm strong and opinionated, and don't go any further than that.  They also don't want to know the majority of my vanilla friends, so I tend to treat the people I play with like the other vanilla friends I have that don't come home with me, and won't come home with me ever. 

Eventually I'll bring someone home to meet my parents, but that's going to be the SO that I plan to marry, not a casual play-friend.  It's no different in the vanilla world.  If you're vanilla, and you haven't brought your girlfriend/boyfriend over to meet your parents, it's typically going to be a sign that you're not thinking "long-term" with that person.

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