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RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 4:25:11 AM

orfunboi

Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
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i just looked at your pic and i don't mean to be insulting, but you look quite vanilla, at least in those shots. Sexy, yes, but vanilla all the same. i would not worry too much about it, a lot of times people say things and have no clue how close they come to the truth. They think they are just being cute or funny. Chances are, they have no clue what your into, at least i hope so for your sake.

i outed myself at my last job, but luckily my boss wasn't one to care what i did in off hours, if fact he used to ask me about it, and i think may have been interested to some degree. i had ordered a flogger for my Mistress for christmas and had it sent to work to avoid her finding out. i was sitting in my bosses office when it arrived and i had forgotten all about it. i opened the box and he asked what that was for. At the time i told him it was for my cousin in Memphis who was a Domme, later after we had discussed bdsm i admitted i was also into it. i think in most cases, it is much better to keep quiet about your lifestyle, but i was lucky.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 21

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 4:29:49 AM

orfunboi

Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OscarHargraves

Hi Kitten,
Can you tell me what an 'S&M freak' looks like? font]

Sure...go look at my pic on my profile...that's an S&M freak...or is that a M&M freak, i don't know, i get em confused.

(in reply to OscarHargraves)

Post #: 22

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 4:39:36 AM

sunshine333

Posts: 203
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline

kitten,
i think you've been given good advice and enough alternatives as far as handling a situation like that in the workplace. but i have to ask ... do you think the way you carry yoursef, wear your hair or makeup, the clothes you wear ... etc. ... might give you away? and if so ... then i would suggest deciding which is your priority ... 1) to be and look exactly how you want without consideration to people's reactions or 2) for the sake of your professional and personal life outside of the bdsm world, you might want to tone it down.

i'm not making any assumptions or judgements about your personality or appearance, so please don't misunderstand what i'm saying. i'm only offering a different side to this because when i was younger i dressed very ... hmm, how do i describe??? ... very different. i was all about being an artist and wore very funky clothes which got me a lot of attention. that always bothered me because i honestly didn't want the attention ... i just wanted to be me. so instead of getting upset all the time i simply toned down my dress. i mean, there's a price to pay for everything, right?

but anyway ... good luck with your rude coworkers.

humbly,
sunshine

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 23

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 7:36:13 AM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

First on their ignorance of flogging -- you could suggest they watch The Hunchback of Notre Dame and then discover their own kinks by asking if they got hard from:

1 Esmerelda
2 Esmerelda's goat
3 the flogging
4 more than one of the above

Oh, and if you REALLY want to have some fun, you could suggest one of those guys take a flogger into work as a joke -- maybe even loan him one. A manager at another site of company I used to work for took a whip in as a "joke", and I think he got fired for it. That'll keep him from bothering you again.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to sunshine333)

Post #: 24

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 9:41:22 AM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

Sunshine,

I don't dress provocatively, in any way at all. I wear the same clothes that anyone else would wear-jeans, khakis, slacks, and long sleeve shirts or short sleeve shirts (depending on the time of year). I've been working long enough to know that a paycheck is more important than heavy eye makeup and black fingernail polish. At least, it's more important to me.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to sunshine333)

Post #: 25

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 9:46:48 AM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

As to everyone else and the varied advice,

I don't know whether I will be reporting the incident or not. I did feel uncomfortable, though I don't know that I felt sexually harassed, nor that it was intended that way. I have been sexually harassed before, so I know what it's like. The thing is, my supervisor (who made the comment) has been with the company for nine years, whereas I have been with the company for about two weeks. I really like my job, and I don't know that, in this case, it's worth it to jepordize my position by reporting it to my manager.
However, I have considered telling my manager that something was said that made me feel uncomfortable, just so if it happens again, I'll have some record that it happened a first time. It isn't that I expect it to happen again, but if it does...well...I might have more influence.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the situation.

~K

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 26

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 9:51:12 AM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

I had the president of the company I was working for ask me why I had to leave when I did one day (I was leaving at 6PM to give a lecture for a local meeting)...
I stated I had to get to <insert town here> because I had promised friends weeks before that I would go to supper with them (which was true - we were getting together before the presentation).

He turned to me and said: "You are probably going to that S&M club in that town..LOL.."

I turned to him and responded: "There is an S&M club in that town???!! Wow - where is it?? Why didn't you say something to me about it earlier?? Are you a member?? That would be really neat to see one of those! Can you get me directions so I can go some time??"

People in the office (who had heard the his earler comment) stopped and smiled at the ribbing I was giving him.

He turned the deepst shade of red I have seen anyone in the past... mumbled something about "I wouldn't know about those things... was just kidding you." and wandered off.

He never bothered me about it again - although on occasion I would ask him provately if there really was such a club as this and where it might be at.... ;)

It is not what is said to you... it is how you handle it when it is said to you...

From what you wrote - it appears that you did fine.

~J

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 27

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 9:59:25 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

The samrtest thing in a real world is to doabsolutelynothing......
How do you know you were harrasssed when you don't know what it is?
Channels are appropriate if you feel you gotta do something.

Ask the supervisor for a meeting.
Ok, it's on the books.....

Then plainly and confusedly ask him thus, I am new here and was thinking about what you were saying; I dont know what S & W is..... would it help me do my job better? Can you recommend a book?

This puts him at core problem.

Either he spills his guts, in which case you can say fine, but that isnt part of my work and it makes me feel uncomfortable.

Or he will hem and haw and do the do-si-do.....You continue appearing kink stupid.

Either way you will be given a wider berth.....he will have to consider the issue, and you haven't pissed anyone off and you are safe as in god's pocket.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 28

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 10:12:05 AM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

How do you know you were harrasssed when you don't know what it is?

I do know what it is. What I said was, I don't know that I felt sexually harassed in this situation. I have been sexually harassed in the past.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 29

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 10:32:10 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

How do you know you were harrasssed when you don't know what it is?
I do know what it is.

That was the point, tho. I understand your discomfort and am suggesting a social and political office scenario, where you can accomplish your goal of stopping it or not having to worry about it being an issue. If you feel you have to talk about it with someone, as I said before, then you dont have to admit knowing what it is. I understand you know what it is, but not admitting it and asking for his clarification as if you are confused and thought it some buisness term puts him in the most dire decision. Consider it mental judo, if you will.

Ron
Sorry if I was that obtuse.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 30

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 10:46:36 AM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

By the way -
For the sake of clarrification (legally speaking)

Harrassment is defined as a repetition of an action that 'makes someone uncomfortable' (as defined under the law, it may be sexual, overtly hostile and/or racial, etc. in nature).

Many people are under the impression that if someone does something that is untoward, they are automatically entitled to recumberance and/or that someone might be significantly disciplined/fired.

It is only after telling management (and, they should definitively be doing something about it after being told) that it occurs again (and, the individual and the company should document everything) then it is considered 'harassment' and actionable by the company as something to significantly discipline/fire someone over and/or for the employee (should nothing be done about it) take action against the company.

This was not (is not) a case of harassment until and unless you decide to and say something to the management about it AND it occurs again.

~J

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 31

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 2:29:20 PM

FTopinMichigan

Posts: 571
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist
Has anyone else ever been in a situation like this? What did you do? What WOULD you do? My dom told me, when I repeated this story to him, that that kind of behavior was completely inapprorpriate at work. I don't know how I was supposed to react. And of course, I was worried that I really DID look like an "S&M freak", which scared me...

So...advice? Comments? Questions?

As others said, and I agree...the conversation sounds inappropriate for the workplace.

Years ago, we decided to have a Halloween Costume Contest at work. The idea was to dress in a theme, related to your own department. As I was HR, and that encompassed training too,...can you guess what my costume was?????

I went to work as a fully fetish dressed Dominatrix, with the flogger at my side. In the context of the costume contest, and the fun of the day, it was a riot. The "conversations" never really got too crude though, and they were never personal.

One co-worker did came up to me, and whispered into my ear...."Honey, that's not a 'costume' is it?"

Well...she was right, but I didn't confirm it to her. It was in fun, and I held it to that, in spite of them all suspecting it anyway.

There's a time and place for fun, and I never see the topic of BDSM activities being in context, at work. I'm out, but not to everyone, in every situation.

K

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 32

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 3:49:23 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

i realy think things get taken way over the top these days..people cant even kid around without being thought they are harrassing someone

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)

Post #: 33

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 3:57:17 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FTopinMichigan

There's a time and place for fun, and I never see the topic of BDSM activities being in context, at work.

K

I couldn't agree with you more in this statement. It is important that we make sure that what we wish to express is acceptable behavior for the situation that we are in, even if what is said is only a joke or meant to be in fun.

kyra

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)

Post #: 34

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 4:17:06 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

IN this case I happen to agree with slavejali and not the others. In the place I work now it is mostly women, and they are definately about prancing out the sexual innuendo... so what, it ain't affecting my life a bit. It shouldn't affect yours. Assholes say inappropriate things all the time, so what? Does it affect your job? Only in that mind of yours. So, the impact of your feeling insecure is what, really? you all wear perfume which I am allergic to, what thought is given me, now that's REALLY inappropriate......but seems normal.......

enough,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 35

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 4:19:56 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I agree jali, and it could be entirely cultural.
I have to say, in the UK - that sort of thing wouldn't even of had a second look.

Seeing as kitten didn't feel uncomfortable, I don't really see the problem. Many people use 'lighthearted' banter to ease a situation they feel uncomforatble in - they use throw away remartks that aren't always meant to be insulting, but to help them feel a little more 'in control'. If it was or becomes a regular occurence and it begins to feel uncomfortable, then sure - let rip with complaints. But if we, as human beings, cannot take a little as much as we can give - and we do give - this board is full of it - then what hope is there?

I have been in many situations where my preference is known, simply because I do not hide it. I have worked in government offices, in public houses, in stores... all treated me no differently. If someone had a 'playful' poke, I gave back just as much as they gave. I think it depends how well people can get to know you and how you treat the other people in the workplace. Jump to concluesions - and pay more heed to political correctness - and people will never be able to understand... treat them on the same level as yourself and it becomes easier to accept.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 36

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 4:23:32 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I wish John would post his anecdote about borrowing Jay's lawnmower here, it is appropriate and in context... BOTH WAYS.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 37

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/19/2005 4:32:30 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

quote:

and it could be entirely cultural.
I have to say, in the UK - that sort of thing wouldn't even of had a second look.

Thats a good point dark angel...being from Australia we are more easy going generally about things i think.

btw i didnt mean my post to sound like i was being unsympathetic to people who are really being harrassed..just that i think a lot of situations dont need to have mountains made out of molehills.

(in reply to orfunboi)

Post #: 38

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/20/2005 3:31:59 AM

lovingmaster45

Posts: 261
Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Kitten,

As a manager in my company, I can say that that is totally inappropriate behavior and if it makes you uncomfortable you should report the behavior to Human Resources or your immediate supervisor. *if they are not one and the same*

Comments like that should not be tolerated in any company and the supervisor should be educated on the inappropriateness of them.

Does your company have educational seminars on harrassement in the work place?

Knight's kyra

This is just the kind of crap attitude that makes real harassment so hard to deal with.

No one threatened her job. No one told her she ahd to flog them and masturbzate them to keep her job. Take your politically correct "United States of the Offended" orientation and leave the workplace.

I think she had two choices. 1. Walk out without responding or 2. Join in the conversation. She took option 2 and now she must accept the situation. I know a freak when I see one also. My new regional VP came into the store yesterday. His wife came in a couple of hours later after shopping. She and I started talking and I invited her to the local homo disco Sunday night for the annual crowning of Wilmington's Drag Queen 2006. Our good friend Ricky is the current Queen; and the show is always a great time.

She asked me how I knew she would enjoy the club. I told her she was an old goth trying to fit into corporate world...she was blown away. She asked what my scene name was and I told her Master Jerry. We went out last night and her hubby is excited about going out Sunday night. She had never been to anything with him before but he feels comfortable going with me.

So the "radar" can have good consequences.

http://ibizawilmington.com/

_____________________________

Master Jerry

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 39

RE: Extrordinary Situations - 11/20/2005 3:59:48 AM

FTopinMichigan

Posts: 571
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist
I don't know whether I will be reporting the incident or not. I did feel uncomfortable, though I don't know that I felt sexually harassed, nor that it was intended that way.
<snip>
Anyway, those are my thoughts on the situation.

K, from what you offered about the particular situation, I don't know that it's something that really warrants being "reported," as much as you should say something, directly to the person you had the conversation with in the first place.

His comments were what made you feel uncomfortable, and I feel it should be addressed directly with him. Give him an opportunity to know how it all made you feel, and that after the conversation it got you thinking. Let him know that you'd appreciate him not making such comments about you, especially in consideration that he "doesn't know you." (since you posted it's a new job for you)

My guess would be that he will apologize for his making you uncomfortable. Many times, someone will say something for comic effect, or to get some type of reaction from someone. In this day and age, most people don't work toward offending someone deliberately, especially when it comes to their job maybe being on the line.

Let the offending man know how you feel. I think it will help your outlook on the situation, and prevent him from making such comments again. Initially, it may make him uncomfortable with you, but it can also help for him to gain respect for the new lady, when she stands up for herself. I would also suggest that you don't threaten him with reporting him, if it happens again. Your bringing it to his attention in the conversation about it, is enough of a warning.

In my own experience, working in HR for the majority of my career, when situation like this happen...the person making what appears to be as an offensive remark...doesn't even recall saying it, and are truly at a loss when confronted with the issue.

My advice would be to talk with him.

Clear the air, and put your mind at ease.

K <the other one

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 40

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