Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about

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slavegirljoy -> Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/9/2008 10:59:40 PM)
A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said, "I don't believe that God exists." "Why do you say that?" asked the customer. "Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things." The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked unkempt and uncared for. The customer turned back and returned to the barber shop and said to the barber, "I don't believe that Barbers exist!" "How can you say that?", asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I'm a barber. "I just gave you a haircut!" "No!", the customer exclaimed. "Barbers can't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside on the street." "Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's just what happens when people do not come to me and ask for a haircut and shave. Just because some people choose not to seek my help doesn't mean that I don't exist." "Exactly!", affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! Pain and suffering is just what happens when people do not go to Him and ask Him for help with their problems. Just because some people choose not to seek God's help doesn't mean that He doesn't exist." **************** joy Owned servant of Master David

candystripper -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/10/2008 12:30:07 PM)
I disagree. Many times I have asked Gawd's help....and none has been forthcoming...unless you simply want to point to the fact that I'm still here as some sort of proof. The biggest conumdrum in all religions is why, if Gawd exists, does he allow evil and sufferiing in the world on such a grand scale? I'm Catholic, and we changed our cathecism, and I looked to see what the answer is these days. In brief, the Catholic answer is Gawd allows evil and suffering so we can appreciate the contrast with goodness and joy. Seems like a mighty inadequate answer to me, and it's one reason my faith ha almost entirely slipped away. candystripper

NumberSix -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/10/2008 12:38:00 PM)
that flawed logic (it demonstrates neither necessary or sufficient proofs) would intimate that blowjobs don't exist, because I am not getting one right now. And barbers plainly do exist, I have a barber carpet. One can demonstrate clearly that barbers exist, with such mundane physical phenomenon as scissors, combs, barber chairs, and with necessary and sufficient evidence such as a movie of some clown cutting some other clowns hair, in fact, I suppose there could be a library of such physical phenomenon. Show me a movie (or two) of God actually saving somebody. Not (as Paul would say) some man speaking in divers of tongues without translation such that we can only come to the conclusion that they are insane. 6

Raechard -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/10/2008 12:50:28 PM)
The OP basically says god helps those that ask for help which in my mind isn’t very empathetic, it also says you have to believe in god for good things to happen to you or otherwise nasty things may happen to you instead. Basically in less words it says god only helps those that validate his existence by first asking him for help. F’off god I say to that because I'd rather believe that type of god didn't exist. Damn all those children starving around the world because they didn’t hold their hands together and look up to the sky. I've also heard the line that basically says god helps those that help themselves, unless you are helping yourself to someone’s wife or money from a bank you just raided.

Raechard -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/10/2008 1:01:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: candystripper In brief, the Catholic answer is Gawd allows evil and suffering so we can appreciate the contrast with goodness and joy. There is a kind of logic to that: how can you appreciate joy and happiness if you have lived an entire life knowing nothing else? Life is about pleasure and pain whilst death is about the total absence of that. There is no comfort to an atheist in death other than the fact he no longer has to feel the pain that he experienced in life. No one gets tired of a joyful life so to move beyond perpetual joy and pleasure other devices are needed to convince someone to let go of it. It’s not very comforting it is just the way of the universe, perhaps? We all know this deep down we just don't like to go there often. Furthermore it's no coincidence that people enjoy a warm fire more when they’ve been out in the cold all day or the fact I enjoy the sound of the cold harsh wind outside when I'm warm in bed. On a hot day we'd like a cold drink, on a cold day we want a hot drink. etc. etc. I can only blame society for that fact homeless people walk the streets, not a god who creates and administrates a universe where a wide range of sensations exist and therefore pain and suffering play a part for reasons unknown. Why am I blaming god for the existence of homeless people or starving children when those things I’ve had a hand in creating and can play a part in solving? People need to look out for one another more not just themselves.

slavegirljoy -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/12/2008 11:32:44 PM)
Thank you, all, for your thoughts on this little story. As i see it, this isn't an argument FOR the existence of God and neither is it an argument AGAINST the existence of Barbers. It is simply a counter-argument to the (often stated) argument that God doesn't exist, as evidenced by the fact that there are people suffering and in pain. The customer turns this argument back on the Barber by, using this same logic, stating that Barbers don't exist, as evidenced by the fact that there are people with uncut hair and unshaven faces. This, of course, is a false argument, just as the Barber's argument about God 's nonexisting is a false argument. That's not to say that there aren't other arguments AGAINST the existence of God and, certainly, everyone can decide for themself what they do and don't believe. The point of this little story is, as i see it, just to show that this particular argument is invalid. As far as asking God for help and not getting it, it seems to me that many of us try to "Top from the bottom", when we tell God what it is we want Him to do for us and telling Him what it is we want from Him. After all, if you believe in God as the Supreme Ruler and Master of the universe, our Heavenly Father, then we are all His submissive children and, instead of telling God, what we want from Him and what we want Him to do and telling Him what we will do for Him (if He gives us what we ask for), shouldn't we be offering Him our service and asking Him, "Lord and Master in Heaven, what would You have me do in my service to You? What would You like me to do?" and, "Heavenly Father, help me to know how i can serve You better?" In addition, i think that these poems about asking for God's help, say it well. I Asked God ~~ Author Unknown ~~ I asked God for strength, that I might achieve, I was made weak, that I might learn humbly to obey; I asked for health, that I might do greater things, I was given infirmity, that I might do better things; I asked for riches, that I might be happy, I was given poverty, that I might be wise; I asked for power, that I might have the praise of man, I was given weakness, that I might feel the need of God; I asked for all things, that I might enjoy life, I was given life, that I might enjoy things; I got nothing that I asked for - but everything I had hoped for, Almost despite myself, my unspoken prayers were answered, I am among all men, most richly blessed. **** I asked God ~~ Author Unknown ~~ I asked for Strength......... And God gave me Difficulties to make me strong. I asked for Wisdom......... And God gave me Problems to solve. I asked for Prosperity......... And God gave me Brain and Brawn to work. I asked for Courage......... And God gave me Danger to overcome. I asked for Love......... And God gave me Troubled people to help. I asked for Favours......... And God gave me Opportunities. I received nothing I wanted I received everything I needed My Prayer has been answered ** I Asked God Claudia Minden Weisz I asked God to take away my pain. God said, No. It is not for me to take away, but for you to give it up. I asked God to make my handicapped child whole. God said, No. Her spirit was whole, her body was only temporary. I asked God to grant me patience. God said, No Patience is a by-product of tribulations, it isn't granted, it is earned. I asked God to give me happiness. God said, No. I give you blessings, Happiness is up to you. I asked God to spare me pain. God said, No. Suffering draws you apart from worldly cares and brings you closer to me. I asked God to make my spirit grow. God said, No. You must grow on your own, but I will prune you to make you fruitful. I asked for all things that I might enjoy life. God said, No. I will give you life so that you may enjoy all things. I ask God to help me LOVE others, as much as he loves me. God said... Ahhhh, finally you have the idea. **** joy Owned servant of Master David

happypervert -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/13/2008 5:46:22 AM)
I hope for your next trick that you'll start telling us how your god is better than the muslim god (and besides, with their beards and long hair they don't have barbers either), then a muslim will rebut your argument and tell us how his god is better than your god and the god of the jews, and pretty soon this place will be just like the middle east.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/13/2008 5:59:30 AM)
For the edification of those that follow the Christian faith, pain comes to you whether you choose to seek God's help or not. Isaiah 45:17 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. If you are of that faith, ALL things, whether they are seen as good or bad, are created by God. I now return you to your regularly scheduled sheeple program. quote: ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! Pain and suffering is just what happens when people do not go to Him and ask Him for help with their problems. Just because some people choose not to seek God's help doesn't mean that He doesn't exist." **************** joy Owned servant of Master David

TheHeretic -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/13/2008 6:01:47 AM)
I asked God for patience, He sent more assholes into my life. All the proof I need can be found by grilling an ear of corn. Beyond that, I see no purpose in the debate. Have fun.

KatyLied -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/13/2008 6:02:01 AM)
I prefer the George Carlin approach to religion. He needs money!

LondonArt -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/13/2008 6:16:43 AM)
I love it when my email spambox somehow spills its load of tired cliche forwards out onto the forums.

DarkSteven -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/13/2008 6:40:19 AM)
The anecdote makes no sense to me. I want a barber, I go and pay a barber and meet on his time. I want God, I reach out to him. But I have to take him on his terms. To use a bad analogy, a sub does not go to a Dom and hand over a list of demands and expect them to be dealt with on the sub's terms. Sometimes I feel like God does answer my requests, but on his terms, not mine, and with an eye to what he considers best for me rather than what I consider best. Other times I feel like he has set up a wonderful world for me to live in, and that's the extent of his involvement. I never understood the common belief that God has a responsibility to respond to all prayers.

philosophy -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/13/2008 9:42:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy Pain and suffering is just what happens when people do not go to Him and ask Him for help with their problems. ...so the obvious corrollary is that those who do go to God suffer no pain or suffering........oh.......well the corrollary is false so therefore so is the original idea. i have absolutely no idea why this has been posted...perhaps i've been spoiled by the usual standard of theological debate here.

sub4hire -> RE: Barbers Don't Exist? -- Something to think about (8/13/2008 11:31:17 AM)
You're right. I go to a hair stylist when I get my hair cut. Barbers don't exist.

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