RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (Full Version)

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philosophy -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 9:28:36 AM)

........many have defined success as being in tune with ones inner desires. Making the internal and external landscape mesh as it were. However, i'm wondering if success, as opposed to satisfaction, requires an audience. Perhaps success is when an external entity recognises when we have been in tune with our innerdesire?




Maxwell67 -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 9:49:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
However, i'm wondering if success, as opposed to satisfaction, requires an audience.

Not in my book.  Satisfaction is a feeling gained by havng success, perhaps, if success were a product to be attained at the end, rather than a condition to be maintained in a living process.

I follow two general rules in my work:
1) Work toward your own satisfaction.
2) Never be satisfied.

The thngs I create are temporal.. they are here, then gone again, though bits of them remain behind in the form of properties, scripts and such...  From my standpoint satisfaction is the shiney side of the proverbial "same coin" that complacency is also minted on.




NuevaVida -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 10:00:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

........many have defined success as being in tune with ones inner desires. Making the internal and external landscape mesh as it were. However, i'm wondering if success, as opposed to satisfaction, requires an audience. Perhaps success is when an external entity recognises when we have been in tune with our innerdesire?


I think only when we are looking for external measurements is success defined by external recognition.  I believe in many cases, we set our own standards and measurements from success, and success is defined internally.  Success brings satisfaction, but both can be obtained from within.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 10:27:11 AM)

quote:

2) Never be satisfied.

Max,
That used to be my 'prime directive' in every aspect of my life. Now, it is not a factor in my personal life, and is not a driving force or considerable part of my business ambitions. Perhaps it is a function of maturing, or simply a matter of getting old; but I don't think so.

I still don't 'settle'; which I believe is a 'mortal sin'. However I don't envy either. I don't care that I'm not the 'biggest' or most well know entity in my particular industry. I'll read and relate to other's relationship representations. I'll challenge and ask questions. I believe there is an infinite range of relationship possibilities and hold firm in the belief that there is no lifestyle 'dogma' to follow or set of 'rules' outlining a path to succeed in any 'one true way'.

The standards for my relationship and personal life are 'dogma' only for us. Our satisfaction with them isn't "settling" because neither settled for the other. We both felt, and feel, that in the other we found our ideal compliment. Our 5 1/2 years together is best represented a 'black hole' singularity; simultaneously representing both an instant and forever.

I AM satisfied. Which is not to say that I'm done accomplishing things, doing things, or experiencing new things. I still have these as driving forces in my personality and life. I keep score in any game and play it to win.  Personal satisfaction at giving an honest attempt has become more important than winning. I'm still angered and frustrated at the mere thought of loosing but no longer see loosing defining me as a 'loser'. The 'game' of life has been so much more FUN to play being "satisfied" regardless of the outcome.

I used to belief it was ideal never to be "satisfied". Now I'd recommend satisfaction as a goal. The caveat being - never settle.




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 11:28:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

........many have defined success as being in tune with ones inner desires. Making the internal and external landscape mesh as it were. However, i'm wondering if success, as opposed to satisfaction, requires an audience. Perhaps success is when an external entity recognises when we have been in tune with our innerdesire?


I couldn't care less who thinks I'm successful or not.. in fact, a bone of contention with both mine and my Darling's families is their concern that we're "not living up to our potential" because we don't have the trappings that other people think mean "success". Now that doesn't mean that I don't want to be the center of attention a LOT... but I'm just as happy to go there for my new piercing, new tat, flame-red hair, platinum blonde hair, excessive wordiness... *LOL*

CFB




Lockit -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 12:05:23 PM)

Sucess to me is laying in bed for the night, with a smile and knowing I lived that day well and knowing tomorrow is another day I can strive to live well.  Hell, if I wake up, the world is my playground and all things are possible.




Maxwell67 -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 12:40:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

2) Never be satisfied.

Max,
That used to be my 'prime directive' in every aspect of my life. Now, it is not a factor in my personal life, and is not a driving force or considerable part of my business ambitions. Perhaps it is a function of maturing, or simply a matter of getting old; but I don't think so.

I still don't 'settle'; which I believe is a 'mortal sin'. However I don't envy either. I don't care that I'm not the 'biggest' or most well know entity in my particular industry. I'll read and relate to other's relationship representations. I'll challenge and ask questions. I believe there is an infinite range of relationship possibilities and hold firm in the belief that there is no lifestyle 'dogma' to follow or set of 'rules' outlining a path to succeed in any 'one true way'.

The standards for my relationship and personal life are 'dogma' only for us. Our satisfaction with them isn't "settling" because neither settled for the other. We both felt, and feel, that in the other we found our ideal compliment. Our 5 1/2 years together is best represented a 'black hole' singularity; simultaneously representing both an instant and forever.

I AM satisfied. Which is not to say that I'm done accomplishing things, doing things, or experiencing new things. I still have these as driving forces in my personality and life. I keep score in any game and play it to win.  Personal satisfaction at giving an honest attempt has become more important than winning. I'm still angered and frustrated at the mere thought of loosing but no longer see loosing defining me as a 'loser'. The 'game' of life has been so much more FUN to play being "satisfied" regardless of the outcome.

I used to belief it was ideal never to be "satisfied". Now I'd recommend satisfaction as a goal. The caveat being - never settle.

I believe I understand what you are trying to say here. And I both agree and disagree(and I have a feeling we will find we actually agree) and here is why:  Iagree with the spirit of your post, but I disagree with how you are defining "satisfied."  For you it means to be happy enough with the result thusfar to be able to put it down, at least for a while.  For me, to be satisfied with something is to be full of it, and need no more ("to grok it in fullness", if you are a Heinlein fan).




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 12:50:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67

("to grok it in fullness", if you are a Heinlein fan).



Mmmmmmmm -- yummy. I think Heinlein may be my favorite three authors! *LOL*

I am satisfied -- full -- but still open to grokking in greater fullness. I figure I'm still alive, so there is probably still room to grok!

CFB




Maxwell67 -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 12:58:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67

("to grok it in fullness", if you are a Heinlein fan).



Mmmmmmmm -- yummy. I think Heinlein may be my favorite three authors! *LOL*

I am satisfied -- full -- but still open to grokking in greater fullness. I figure I'm still alive, so there is probably still room to grok!

CFB


You are full but you still want more... What a selfish hedonist you are.  Maybe if I get full I will change my second rule, but for now let's just say it keeps me humble.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 1:10:28 PM)

quote:

For me, to be satisfied with something is to be full of it, and need no more ("to grok it in fullness", if you are a Heinlein fan).
I don't reference the Heinlein image in my statement that I am "satisfied". I want and seek more - more of the same! I haven't let my energy wane or consider myself "happy enough". It is a very active state of satisfaction.

I represent my satisfaction as a result of self analysis regarding my current life status and determining that there is no preferred state of existence that I can obtain or even imagine. Granted a bold statement and one requiring more knowledge of me than can be gleaned by reading my posts on CM. You should appreciate that I would have thought it impossible for me to make such a statement 6 years ago. I would have scoffed at the concept and ridiculed anyone representing themselves as being satisfied with more vitriol than you have shown.

Simply put; I thought it was impossible and detriment to be satisfied - until I was. 




Maxwell67 -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 1:19:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Simply put; I thought it was impossible and detriment to be satisfied - until I was. 

Seems like the best stuff in life tends to work just like this.  Impossible to adequately describe.  You gotta be there to appreciate it.  Nuff said.  I will refrain from having my rules tattooed on my chest for the time being.




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 1:58:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67

You are full but you still want more... What a selfish hedonist you are.  Maybe if I get full I will change my second rule, but for now let's just say it keeps me humble.



What can I say... I am only an egg. *grins*

CFB




subtee -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 2:00:06 PM)

~FR

The Fox
A fox looked at his shadow at sunrise and said, “I will have a camel for lunch today.” And all morning he went about looking for camels. But at noon he saw his shadow again—and he said, “A mouse will do.”
 
~~~Gibran




Gwynvyd -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 2:16:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
However, i'm wondering if success, as opposed to satisfaction, requires an audience.

Not in my book.  Satisfaction is a feeling gained by havng success, perhaps, if success were a product to be attained at the end, rather than a condition to be maintained in a living process.

I follow two general rules in my work:
1) Work toward your own satisfaction.
2) Never be satisfied.

The thngs I create are temporal.. they are here, then gone again, though bits of them remain behind in the form of properties, scripts and such...  From my standpoint satisfaction is the shiney side of the proverbial "same coin" that complacency is also minted on.


[sm=goodpost.gif]           [sm=agree.gif]                [sm=applause.gif]


Ditto!

Gwyn




Maxwell67 -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 2:55:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67

You are full but you still want more... What a selfish hedonist you are.  Maybe if I get full I will change my second rule, but for now let's just say it keeps me humble.



What can I say... I am only an egg. *grins*

CFB


OMG.. please do not take this wrong, hehe, it is no reflection I know, but Mine uses that phrase to describe her journey in exploring her submission.




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 2:59:58 PM)

Please pardon the brief hijack...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67

OMG.. please do not take this wrong, hehe, it is no reflection I know, but Mine uses that phrase to describe her journey in exploring her submission.



Yeah, well, I ended up on a Heinlein roll...
...I'll be perfectly happy to substitute with "I am only a (rotten) egg" or "I am only a (cracked) egg" *grins* I would consider "I am only a (twisted) egg", but to me, that pretty much correlates with the cracked egg option.

CFB





Vendaval -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 10:16:30 PM)

Very thoughtful and insightful responses, everyone.
 
I think philosophy brings up a very important point about internal or external validation.


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

........many have defined success as being in tune with ones inner desires. Making the internal and external landscape mesh as it were. However, i'm wondering if success, as opposed to satisfaction, requires an audience. Perhaps success is when an external entity recognises when we have been in tune with our innerdesire?




Maxwell67 -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 10:42:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Very thoughtful and insightful responses, everyone.
 
I think philosophy brings up a very important point about internal or external validation.


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

........many have defined success as being in tune with ones inner desires. Making the internal and external landscape mesh as it were. However, i'm wondering if success, as opposed to satisfaction, requires an audience. Perhaps success is when an external entity recognises when we have been in tune with our innerdesire?


Oh, alright, I'll play.  If a monk achieves enlightenment on a mountaintop, and ascends bodily into the stratosphere with no witnesses, was he successful?  Or has he just evolved beyond the need for success?




Vendaval -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/11/2008 11:23:43 PM)

I am not sure how to answer that question; as the spiritual path of the monk is not clear to me.  Does he follow a path that is more process or goal oriented?  What part does ego or loss of ego fulfill?

Too many unknowns....




Maxwell67 -> RE: Success - your definition, philosophical discussion (8/12/2008 6:02:42 AM)

Nobody does, really.  That is the problem with adding an external conditional to the concept of success.  I think glory is perhaps a goal for some people to achieve in order to feel they have been successful, but not a requirement for everyone..




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