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moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 1:31:03 AM

AllietheKitten

Posts: 115
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

Netizen and I have never had a very formal relationship. We have mostly practiced D/s inside the bedroom. Partly this is because we only saw each other twice a month so most of out time was spent in the bedroom. And partly this is because I love him and I enjoy the "vanilla" times when we cuddle and talk and just hang out.
But I have wanted to introduce some serious D/s formality into our relationship. So we agreed to do this on a trial basis. Do it for two days a month and see how it goes.
Trouble is:
1. Netizen has not proven to be very obedient in the past. In fact, I have caught him lying to me about his level of obedience (don't get me started on how angry it makes me that he feels compelled to lie instead of just telling me that he can't stand the corporal punishment when he disobeys!). I have no idea how far I can push him here or whether he will respond well.

2. I am sort of at a loss as to what to do. I mean, in a scene I am inspired and can come up with all sorts of things. But I want this time to be about obedience and D/s, not sex. So, what do I do with him...
Some ideas I have-- I am thinking about having him clean house while dressed as a sissy. I thought of having him paint my toenails and put lotion on me, that sort of thing. I think I may even make him go in the closet for a bit, to remind him that he's a tool like the vaccuum cleaner, to be taken out at my will and put back when I'm done with him. I've also thought of using him as a table or footstool.

Again, I have no idea what any of this will do to him-if it will be too much. I really really want this. I want to see him kneel in front of me. I want to deepen our level of intimacy and trust in one another. But I am worried that he won't want what I do and what that will do to our relationship.

Anyone have any insights to share?

_____________________________

I don't believe in Destiny
Or the guiding hand of Fate
I don't believe in forever
of love as a mystical state
But I believe there's a ghost of a chance
We can find someone to love and make it last.
~Rush

Post #: 1

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 2:53:00 AM

Allondra

Posts: 68
Joined: 7/12/2008
Status: offline

The fact that he is disobedient and lies to you is *such* a red flag -- I don't see how you are going to have a satisfying relationship with him (different what you have now) when you can't trust him. It doesn't sound like he wants to or is ready to go beyond your bedroom relationship.

Rather than thinking up things for him to do, I'd sit him down and ask him point-blank where he wants the relationship to go. Once you've got that sorted out, and if it is a direction that you are happy with, it will be easier to figure out how to get there with specific tasks. It will be pointless and damaging to your relationship to demand things of him that he is unwilling or unable to do.

Good luck!

(in reply to AllietheKitten)

Post #: 2

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 3:18:28 AM

AllietheKitten

Posts: 115
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

Allondra,
We have discussed it extensively. Part of it is sheer inexperience. He really doesn't know how he will react but is willing to try.
As for the disobedience-yes, that threw me for a loop. And if I did not love him so much I would not have been so forgiving. But after talking it over with him I realized we were both wrong. I instituted corporal punishment as a deterrant for cumming without permission. But he hated it and just couldn't tell me and so he made it seem like he was being obedient when he wasn't. When I found out we talked about it and I suspended the punishments for awhile.
However-I am still worried and looking for further "red flags" as you say. I have no idea if he is ready to take this outside the bedroom and if he has it in him to be obedient. I would like to find out and he says that he wants to find out as well. And we have talked about this. But I don't think we are going to get any further unless we try it and see what it does to/for him.

_____________________________

I don't believe in Destiny
Or the guiding hand of Fate
I don't believe in forever
of love as a mystical state
But I believe there's a ghost of a chance
We can find someone to love and make it last.
~Rush

(in reply to Allondra)

Post #: 3

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 3:45:42 AM

Allondra

Posts: 68
Joined: 7/12/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllietheKitten

We have discussed it extensively. Part of it is sheer inexperience. He really doesn't know how he will react but is willing to try.

Well, willingness to try is a good first step.

quote:

I instituted corporal punishment as a deterrant for cumming without permission. But he hated it and just couldn't tell me and so he made it seem like he was being obedient when he wasn't. When I found out we talked about it and I suspended the punishments for awhile.

I don't know how your relationship works, obviously, but in mine, punishment isn't meant to be liked -- my boy hates punishment, too! That's what makes it work as a deterrent (not that it's needed very often at all). I should add, though, that we live together, so that's one big difference between you and us. I don't know how I'd handle a boy I couldn't trust (I suspect I wouldn't have anything to do with him, but that's me).

quote:

I have no idea if he is ready to take this outside the bedroom and if he has it in him to be obedient. I would like to find out and he says that he wants to find out as well. And we have talked about this. But I don't think we are going to get any further unless we try it and see what it does to/for him.

Yup. Find out what's meaningful for him, cross-reference it with what you are interested in -- and see how it goes. It sounds like you two have a lot of work ahead of you... and it sounds like you think he's worth the effort.

(in reply to AllietheKitten)

Post #: 4

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 7:33:33 AM

LadyJulieAnn

Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline

When I started to make things more "formal" with my boy, I started with simple things like having him greet me in a certain way or serving me a drink while kneeling. Perhaps set aside a time in the evening where he is to pamper you in a particular way. You might also require certain house chores to be completed in the way you desire. It was easier for us to start with just a few things at a time and then build from there.

Good luck to you both!

LadyJulieAnn

(in reply to Allondra)

Post #: 5

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 8:37:50 AM

Madame4a

Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline

After reading your post and subsequent answer I think you've got a few things going on -- at least from the information I read here.

I don't think its about going from informal to formal -- it seems like you two need to really talk about the goals and vision for the relationship. Going to formal can often be achieved thru ritual and protocol, slowly -- very slowly. But I think you might want to talk very carefully and specificially about what you two envision for the relationship first.

I have this thing about disobedience and punishment -- I find them parental in nature and not at all appealing. For me, we sit down and agree to things, if, as a submissive you agree to something -- there shouldn't be any 'disobedience' ... I find it.. .ugh.. childish. If you can't or won't don't something, don't agree to it up front. That's my feeling.

But it really does seem like you should really talk -- one thing you said struck me "I have no idea...." ... find out.

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

(in reply to AllietheKitten)

Post #: 6

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 10:29:13 AM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Anyone who is fearful, might lie to save themselves, but I would have to seriously consider what the heck was going on here if it were my relationship. I am not trying to say this in judgement, but more concern. If he is so fearful that he would lie and then would chose to lie rather than confront the issue with you... this says a lot to me. It says that communication has a crack in it and it says that his fear needs to be addressed before the lying will stop.

In a situation like this, if I did make an allowance for forgiveness of a lie and try to be understanding, I would not be gearing up, but toning down. It would be time to have some very long talks, get vulnerable if one must and really dig deep into what the roots are in the fear and communications that include deceit or self protection. I would most likely stop all physical corrections until I knew that I was not promoting emotional harm upon someone who was seriously having an issue with what was happening. I would find other ways to hold my submissive accountable and structure things so that he would feel safe.

I do not want a submissive saying what he thinks I want to hear, but bearing his soul to me and if he is hiding for whatever reasons... there is a problem that needs to be addressed in the dynamic's of the relationship itself, rather than the dynamic's of d/s. I wish you both well!

(in reply to Madame4a)

Post #: 7

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 11:12:52 AM

pixelslave

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllietheKitten

As for the disobedience-yes, that threw me for a loop. And if I did not love him so much I would not have been so forgiving. But after talking it over with him I realized we were both wrong. I instituted corporal punishment as a deterrant for cumming without permission.

As a male sub who's been subjected to this kind of training, i.e. to not cum until given permission, I'd like to caution you to that this can be damaging to your submissive's sexuality. You're asking him to essentially shut down his natural responses or "numb out" the sensations he would normally experience until you've told him it's okay. At that time, he then is in a position where he needs to try and reverse the process of numbing out and turning of his response to you. That can be very confusing to his body and affect his ability to enjoy sexual relations with you. Eventually, he may not even be able to ejaculate inside of you when given permission to do so. That's because he's been so heavily programmed to wait that he can no longer reverse what he's been telling his body to do while he's inside of you.

Just something to consider before you continue to head down what I consider to be a dangerous path.

quote:

But he hated it and just couldn't tell me and so he made it seem like he was being obedient when he wasn't. When I found out we talked about it and I suspended the punishments for awhile.

As others have noted, and I personally agree with them, I don't think that punishment is at all an effective or adult way to have a D/s relationship. It seems to me that you're essentially being his mommy in doling out punishment in order to get the behavior from him that you want. If there's a problem it's usually time to sit down like adults and get to the root of it to reach agreement on how it will be handled in the future. I don't think you can force a man to submit to your desires for long. Wouldn't you rather have him give it to you willingly instead?

In my experience when entering a new relationship with a dominant woman after having been single for a period of time, I need her to gently and subtly start to become more dominant in different areas of my life according to what we've both agreed we'd like things to eventually look like. If she doesn't take her time and do it subtly and slowly, it can easily become too much for me to cope with it happening too fast! It isn't that I don't desire it to ultimately become my reality. It's more a case of just too much change happening all at once.

quote:

However-I am still worried and looking for further "red flags" as you say. I have no idea if he is ready to take this outside the bedroom and if he has it in him to be obedient. I would like to find out and he says that he wants to find out as well. And we have talked about this. But I don't think we are going to get any further unless we try it and see what it does to/for him.

Communication about what pushes his buttons in terms of domination outside the bedroom would seem to me to be the key to success! Starting small and slowly expanding things is also what I'd suggest. You'll truly need to give him plenty of time that he'll definitely need to adjust. Please remember that this is going to be new to both of you and he's not going to be perfect at doing it the way you'd like from the start. Hearing praise from you when he's successful will help give him the confidence along with the desire to continue trying which I think is essential if you're ever going to have the kind of relationship the two of you seem to want.

I hope you find this helpful coming from the other side of the kneel.

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to AllietheKitten)

Post #: 8

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 11:50:11 AM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I love my partner very much too, and forgave him for the lieI'd caught him in , even though it was a really bad thing to lie a bout and ended up in a huge mess I HAD to clean up or the legal consequences would of affected me as well as him, with the cavet I'll drop it this time but do not ever lie to me again, or we're done, and you'll have to move out and get your own place. and then he just kept on lieing, in fact even strait to my face when I asked him are you lying. He said no I am not lying cause I know you'd be angry. Later on I told him I know you're lying , and what's worse is you have the gall to look me in the eye and swear " no honey I am not lying." Worst of all the thing he was lying about wasn't even really worth lying about. He could of very easily said yes I have been spending money I am supposed to be saving, and yeah I would of been annoyed but I'd be farrrrrrrrrrrrrr less annoyed than I was at him lying to me.

I feel if you'll lie about simple things you could of easily fessed up to , you'll lie about major things.

Of course I did not dump him after catching him in more lies, after our talk about the first lie, which is my fault, because really if you make an ultimatuim no more lies or we're done I am leaving you really aughta stick to it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllietheKitten

As for the disobedience-yes, that threw me for a loop. And if I did not love him so much I would not have been so forgiving.

< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 8/11/2008 11:58:00 AM >

(in reply to AllietheKitten)

Post #: 9

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 12:44:07 PM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

People get ONE chance with me. I tell them upfront, if you lie to me, no matter how small the lie or how much I care about you, we are done. Period.
I had a friend, she hacked into my phone, messed with my voice-mail settings. She apologized after she lied and tried to tell me that I gave her the PW. No I didn't. She is no longer my friend. I liked her a lot too.

My point is, why would you want to stay with someone who lies to you? I agree with YHMA, if he can lie about something insignificant, then can you imagine the lies over something important?

You are much better than any lie that anyone can tell you and you deserve much better as well.

As far as the original question. The only person who can answer that is you, and you need to get more information from him before making a decision.

Question: Why are you pushing for formal now, instead of having it all along? Was he simply a bottom for you? If so, it may be hard to get him to be anything else outside of the bedroom. If you were just a Top to him, than he may not be interested in having a Mistress at this time. These are questions you may want to ask yourself, and in turn, ask him.

Good luck-

_____________________________

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 10

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 3:09:50 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Well, you have three things going on here. Past, present, and future.

About the lie, I have to say I might not have been so forgiving as you. I have released someone before over lying to Me. To be honest with you, it was the very fact that it was over such an insignificant thing that I let him go. If someone is going to lie to Me over the things that I wouldn't care about one way or the other, I'm not going to have any trust in them to tell Me what's really going on when things do matter.

As to your methods, the corporal punishment obviously isn't working. I'm not saying a punishment style should be changed just because a sub doesn't like it. The thing is that it doesn't appear to be effective. Maybe punishment isn't exactly where your dynamic needs to be right now, especially if you are just now taking things beyond the bedroom. Speaking of the bedroom, I probably wouldn't have given a punishment for a physical reaction, such as an orgasm.

Now, what do you do to get you from where you are now to where you want to go? It's like anything else. You do it little bits at a time. Since you've talked about it extensively, you probably have a good vision of what you would want it to be like. Start with the small things that help you build that. There are a lot of things that are simple to help put someone in a submissive mindset. The two of you don't live together, so what about a ritual for when he gets there and the opposite for when he leaves. A lot of folks will use a play collar for something like this (you can use just about anything, a bracelet, a necklace, a bell) and have a ritual where you have him kneel and you put it on him. (Great time to have him kiss your feet as well.) Do you want him to call you by something else than your name to show that he sees you as a Dominant? Put it in place. Small tasks like how to fix your coffee or other favorite drink and how you want them served are easy to establish. Give him little things at first, and as they work well, make sure he knows that you are pleased in the way he's serving you. As the little things become successful, have a stabilization period, and then add something else. Before you know it, your D/s will be headed in a great direction.

Good luck to you. I wish you both the best.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

Post #: 11

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 5:48:51 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

EXACTLY, see cause I could understand* but that don't make it right* lying about something huge and that you know it'd get your ass blown out of the water and in huge amounts of trouble, but small shit that's no big deal come on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

If someone is going to lie to Me over the things that I wouldn't care about one way or the other, I'm not going to have any trust in them to tell Me what's really going on when things do matter.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 12

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 6:16:46 PM

AllietheKitten

Posts: 115
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

Some things to clarify:
About the punishment-how this all came about is that Netizen asked me to forbid him to cum. I did it because he wanted to and it pleased me to see his squirm. However, I have never denied permission when he calls or texts and asks. And when I saw he was having a hard time with it I even gave him permission to go ahead and just make sure to tell me about it later via text or call. So that's why I am so surprised that he lied about it--nothing would have happened.
However, I did paddle him twice for cumming without permission. I see now that it probably wasn't the best way to go-he wasn't ready for such hardcore discipline and it wasn't how I should have introduced pain play into the relationship. That is why I forgave him...because I was also wrong and went really overboard on it and it scared him. Luckily, not so much that he's not willing to try other stuff.

Mistress of Ga: I have been thinking of that very thing all last night. I guess we never started out formal because I wanted to get to know him and because we lived so far apart and because I was all goo-goo in love...it never seemed the right time. And now that I think about it, I think you are right. My Boy isn't really a submissive. I think he's a bottom or kinky, but he shows no real interest in submitting outside the bedroom. I don't know why I never saw this before!
So I guess now I need to decide what's more important to me- having a sub or having him. And that...I don't know. I love him. But as a top I feel like I'm a sex toy he's taking out and using. I do all the work and get none of the respect or rewards. I mean, sure its sexy but that only counts for so much as far as I'm concerned.

I think I will give it time. We are moving in together in two weeks and I should wait and see how it goes, talk to him about it and move from there.

Thanks for all the replies.

_____________________________

I don't believe in Destiny
Or the guiding hand of Fate
I don't believe in forever
of love as a mystical state
But I believe there's a ghost of a chance
We can find someone to love and make it last.
~Rush

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 13

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/11/2008 7:56:35 PM

LadySunn

Posts: 102
Joined: 7/19/2008
Status: offline

AllietheKitten,

Disobedience can be rewarded with punishment. A liar can not be changed or trusted and your relationship will suffer greatly for it. I walk away from liars myself but that is just me.

(in reply to AllietheKitten)

Post #: 14

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/12/2008 4:44:42 AM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

quote:

Mistress of Ga: I have been thinking of that very thing all last night. I guess we never started out formal because I wanted to get to know him and because we lived so far apart and because I was all goo-goo in love...it never seemed the right time. And now that I think about it, I think you are right. My Boy isn't really a submissive. I think he's a bottom or kinky, but he shows no real interest in submitting outside the bedroom. I don't know why I never saw this before!
So I guess now I need to decide what's more important to me- having a sub or having him. And that...I don't know. I love him. But as a top I feel like I'm a sex toy he's taking out and using. I do all the work and get none of the respect or rewards. I mean, sure its sexy but that only counts for so much as far as I'm concerned.

I think I will give it time. We are moving in together in two weeks and I should wait and see how it goes, talk to him about it and move from there.

I wanted to address the last part first. I am a little confused as to why you are going to be moving in with each other, if the relationship is not clear? I should think that you would want to know exactly where you both stand BEFORE you move in together. It is much easier to say goodbye, if the dynamic isn't working, than it is for him to find another place to live, or visa versa.

The thing about starting off informal, I can really relate well with. I talked to Geoff about this very thing last night. We have been friends for a long time and I don't think that either of us thought about taking it any further than the friendship, until now. Now, we may be running into the same problem as you have with your boy. We are not all goo goo in love with each other, but there is a mutual respect and now I have to be more formal with him, as his potential Mistress, than I was as his friend, obviously. But how to go about it, is yet another thing.

I have started off slowly, asking him to let me know where he is at all times. I am not asking him to call me every minute, but if he is going out with friends, I expect a phone call from him, either asking if he can go, or telling me he is going. Either way is fine, just as long as I am aware of where he is.

Because there is a distance issue, I will be giving him assignments that will reinforce my new position with him.

So we start off slowly with simple things. We test the waters, so to speak and we go from there. During this time, he also gets to test the waters on his own. I will be his as much as he will be mine. We both want this to work, but we aren't going to jump in with both feet, until we know it can work.

Might I suggest that you think about this more before you make the decision to move in together? You sound very unsure.

In any case, I wish you all the best.

_____________________________

(in reply to AllietheKitten)

Post #: 15

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/12/2008 5:36:24 PM

pixelslave

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

Mistress of Ga: I have been thinking of that very thing all last night. I guess we never started out formal because I wanted to get to know him and because we lived so far apart and because I was all goo-goo in love...it never seemed the right time. And now that I think about it, I think you are right. My Boy isn't really a submissive. I think he's a bottom or kinky, but he shows no real interest in submitting outside the bedroom. I don't know why I never saw this before!
So I guess now I need to decide what's more important to me- having a sub or having him. And that...I don't know. I love him. But as a top I feel like I'm a sex toy he's taking out and using. I do all the work and get none of the respect or rewards. I mean, sure its sexy but that only counts for so much as far as I'm concerned.

I think I will give it time. We are moving in together in two weeks and I should wait and see how it goes, talk to him about it and move from there.

I wanted to address the last part first. I am a little confused as to why you are going to be moving in with each other, if the relationship is not clear? I should think that you would want to know exactly where you both stand BEFORE you move in together. It is much easier to say goodbye, if the dynamic isn't working, than it is for him to find another place to live, or visa versa.

I'm very glad you raised this issue. I had the same thoughts, but didn't feel comfortable expressing them. Now that you've opened the door, I'll say that it seems to me that it's the last place the two of them should be thinking of going until the OP has decided whether or not she can live with the dynamic she thinks her boyfriend is capable of having with her. This seems to me a bit like a fast moving train headed for a set of broken tracks ready to derail it.

quote:

The thing about starting off informal, I can really relate well with. I talked to Geoff about this very thing last night. We have been friends for a long time and I don't think that either of us thought about taking it any further than the friendship, until now.

I don't see that as particularly a problem. I generally prefer to get to know each other as friends first. Introducing a dynamic before that occurs can inhibit the sub from getting to know the dominant as a woman who's a unique individual; establishing a barrier between them on some levels.

quote:

Now, we may be running into the same problem as you have with your boy. We are not all goo goo in love with each other, but there is a mutual respect and now I have to be more formal with him, as his potential Mistress, than I was as his friend, obviously. But how to go about it, is yet another thing.

I have started off slowly, asking him to let me know where he is at all times. I am not asking him to call me every minute, but if he is going out with friends, I expect a phone call from him, either asking if he can go, or telling me he is going. Either way is fine, just as long as I am aware of where he is.

To me, this sounds like a wise approach in general. After being single and on your own, despite a man's need or desire to submit, letting go of too much control at once can be overwhelming for him. I feel as though a wise dominant will see that and take her time; allowing both to adjust, then expand the exchange of poswer slowly over time. This allows both to become more comfortable with the power exchange despite whatever desires may exist for more to occur at any given point; which could only be a temporary thing occuring at a time of high emotions. From experience I can say that those times of high emotions often don't represent one's ability to handle the stark reality of what it would really mean if things suddenly became that way.

quote:

During this time, he also gets to test the waters on his own. I will be his as much as he will be mine.

Very well said and lovely sentiments about your being his as much as him being yours.

quote:

Might I suggest that you think about this more before you make the decision to move in together? You sound very unsure.

In any case, I wish you all the best.

I would second this. Well said Ma'am!

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

Post #: 16

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/12/2008 9:24:02 PM

AllietheKitten

Posts: 115
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

I wanted to address the last part first. I am a little confused as to why you are going to be moving in with each other, if the relationship is not clear? I should think that you would want to know exactly where you both stand BEFORE you move in together. It is much easier to say goodbye, if the dynamic isn't working, than it is for him to find another place to live, or visa versa.

What I think is at the crux of the issue is whether I would rather have the 24/7 D/s dynamic or have him as he is. And the answer is that I would rather have him. We are, both of us, feeling things out. He is a new sub, I'm a new Domme. When we started the relationship we both said that we wanted everything-the vanilla relationship with a lot of kink thrown in. It was my assumption that we would eventually grow into more power exchange. I can see now that that isn't going to happen.
I think we all have to decide what's important and what stuff we can compromise on.
Netizen and I love each other. I need him. He completes me in a way that no one ever has. I feel sexy and desired when I am with him. I don't *need* D/s. I think D/s is a means to an end--a means to finding this feeling. I already have the feeling. I don't need the power exchange. So-that's my decision.

_____________________________

I don't believe in Destiny
Or the guiding hand of Fate
I don't believe in forever
of love as a mystical state
But I believe there's a ghost of a chance
We can find someone to love and make it last.
~Rush

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

Post #: 17

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/13/2008 1:10:23 AM

Pyrrsefanie

Posts: 1222
Joined: 9/18/2007
From: NEW HAMPSHAAAAAAH!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllietheKitten
1. Netizen has not proven to be very obedient in the past. In fact, I have caught him lying to me about his level of obedience (don't get me started on how angry it makes me that he feels compelled to lie instead of just telling me that he can't stand the corporal punishment when he disobeys!). I have no idea how far I can push him here or whether he will respond well.

Oh lawd oh lawd, I'm sitting here at my computer 'bout ready to raise my hands in the air and start screaming "TESTIFY!"

I have had (and still have) some problems with disobedience on the part of my boy. He's stubborn as a mule and has gone through his entire life being able to get away with anything because no one has ever bothered to tell him to sit down and shut up, or call him out on his bad behavior. Then when I punish him he gets sulky and complains that it's not fair.

As of late he's gotten better, but there's a long road ahead until I've got him whipped into form. Pun intended. Sadly there's no magic switch out there that I've found to take a sub and go "poof!" so that he's absolutely perfect from the get-go. It takes time and effort to establish a D/s relationship that extends beyond the occasional spanking or use of the fuzzy handcuffs.

What it boils down to for your boy is that if he obeys, he won't get the corporal punishment you're dishing out. He needs to grasp that he's not supposed to enjoy his punishment, otherwise it defeats the purpose. Regarding how far you can push him, I'd recommend putting a safeword into play so that if he is absolutely at his limit you're not left guessing as to what to do next. Once you notice the pattern of how hard you can push him, you can work on either expanding those limits or in the case of "hard" limits, removing things from your repertoire.

Ultimately it's about what you want, not what he wants. He needs to understand that submission is not "Yes ma'am no ma'am" while he's curled up on a velvet cushion being fed strawberries. It is going to be downright uncomfortable at times.

Another important thing is to find the balance between "vanilla" time and playtime that suits your relationship. Be sure to tell him that you still do enjoy the time you spend together as yourselves, so to speak, and don't plan to take that away -- I know in the case of my boy, that was a major fear for him.

It's going to be a fairly major change, and there are going to be some bumps in the road and a lot of learning and growing on both of your parts, but stick with it. If he absolutely does not want any part of this kind of relationship then you both need to sit down and reevaluate where your life together is heading, if a compromise can be made or if it's best to part ways. It may be a scary thought, but making sure you have that compatibility to not drive each other batshit insane twenty years down the road can save you a lot of trouble.

< Message edited by Pyrrsefanie -- 8/13/2008 1:12:26 AM >

_____________________________

Ти саркастична, це – доля,
Ти артистична в неволі,
Ти симпатична в цій ролі,
Ти синтетична до болю

Read my series, Taking Jessica, on http://www.akashaweb.com !

(in reply to AllietheKitten)

Post #: 18

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/13/2008 7:47:38 AM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllietheKitten

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

I wanted to address the last part first. I am a little confused as to why you are going to be moving in with each other, if the relationship is not clear? I should think that you would want to know exactly where you both stand BEFORE you move in together. It is much easier to say goodbye, if the dynamic isn't working, than it is for him to find another place to live, or visa versa.

What I think is at the crux of the issue is whether I would rather have the 24/7 D/s dynamic or have him as he is. And the answer is that I would rather have him. We are, both of us, feeling things out. He is a new sub, I'm a new Domme. When we started the relationship we both said that we wanted everything-the vanilla relationship with a lot of kink thrown in. It was my assumption that we would eventually grow into more power exchange. I can see now that that isn't going to happen.
I think we all have to decide what's important and what stuff we can compromise on.
Netizen and I love each other. I need him. He completes me in a way that no one ever has. I feel sexy and desired when I am with him. I don't *need* D/s. I think D/s is a means to an end--a means to finding this feeling. I already have the feeling. I don't need the power exchange. So-that's my decision.

And in the end, isn't it about what makes you both happy? If this is what makes you and he happy than I wish you both the best. No expectations going in, so no disappointments. Congratulations! <hugs>

_____________________________

(in reply to AllietheKitten)

Post #: 19

RE: moving from informal to formal - 8/13/2008 8:01:53 AM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

quote:

Oh lawd oh lawd, I'm sitting here at my computer 'bout ready to raise my hands in the air and start screaming "TESTIFY!"

Pyrrsefanie! You have been missed <hugs> I love your sense of humor.

quote:

I have had (and still have) some problems with disobedience on the part of my boy. He's stubborn as a mule and has gone through his entire life being able to get away with anything because no one has ever bothered to tell him to sit down and shut up, or call him out on his bad behavior. Then when I punish him he gets sulky and complains that it's not fair.

Oh I have so been there...

quote:

Sadly there's no magic switch out there that I've found to take a sub and go "poof!" so that he's absolutely perfect from the get-go. It takes time and effort to establish a D/s relationship that extends beyond the occasional spanking or use of the fuzzy handcuffs.

Now *I* feel like screaming "TESTIFY!" lol Some people think that our subs come this way..oh no..no no no..it took some hard ass work on our parts to get them to where WE look good! <g>

quote:

It is going to be downright uncomfortable at times

You got that right. It is so easy for a boy/girl to say "Yes Mistress" when they have it easy. But put a bucket of water and a toothbrush in front of them and tell them to clean the bathroom floor, and watch how fast they suddenly realize they are bottoms..not submissives (Ok subs, don't get all crazy, I am not talking about all subs, just those who I have had the misfortune of dealing with, who were exactly like that.)

Some good advice here. I wish you both the best :)

_____________________________

(in reply to Pyrrsefanie)

Post #: 20

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