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Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/11/2008 1:58:11 PM

candystripper

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IMO, a conversation is more than two people taking turns waiting to interrupt one another. It's more than one person pontificating and the other serving as audience. It's more than a debate.

I was -- am -- always been blessed with friends who excelled at the art of convo. Topics would arise and drop away, with a flow of ideas and and a feeling on both parts of having been heard. This gave me a great sense of being connected to other people and enhanced my well being.

However, on my Yahoo IM list and elsewhere, I find few people who can converse. I'm wondering if its because we met on the 'net...or because some of our convo is written...or because convo itself has become a lost art.

Anyone have any thoughts?

candystripper

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/11/2008 2:05:35 PM

pahunkboy

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holy cow! Hell yeah.

people are too distracted to talk.

kill the TV! kill the phone!

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/11/2008 2:13:49 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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I don't think that conversation is a lost art. I've had far to many satisfying conversations of late, with truly incredible people with amazing ideas to believe that. However, I believe that text messaging, cell phones, emails, etc., have forced the art of conversation into hibernation, replacing it with an abbreviated, curt, and substance-less 'chatter' that is barely more than white noise.

CFB

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/11/2008 2:20:55 PM

Gwynvyd

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I think there are a lot of people out there who are too busy and concerned with what I think to be the petty bull shit of life and the world.. to carry on a *Good* conversation.

If all you talk about is what you bought, how much you make, where you work, or what the Celibs are doing.. sorry I am not interested!

So many say you can not discuss Politics, sex, or religion. I wonder what the hell is left to talk about?!?!

I *like* debating. I like learning from others.

Hell that is why I go to the forums.

Gwyn

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/11/2008 2:21:22 PM

Maxwell67

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That is really freaky, I was just thinking the exact same thing! We are caught between dozens of writing traditions, all mixed up like a salad, some of us are speechwriters and some are essayists, some novellists, some technical writers, pen pals. There is no standardized "BBS style manual"..... We are making this up as we go, most of us. falling back on what we are familar with. So no, it's not conversational. I relish those moments though when I can stop and really read what someone posts and react honestly to it and even commiserate a bit (like now, hehe). Maybe we need to read more plays. lol.

Then there is the intent behind what we are writing.. are we talking to each other, or are we working out our own ideas in public? Are we discussing or ranting? Teaching or just making an observation? It's not like we ever bother to let each other know. Maybe we don't know ourselves.

What probably matters most when we are writing though.. at least as much as what we are trying to say, is who are we talking to? Each other? Are there certain sets of eyes you imagine or that you want to see what it is you are writing or is it just the vast dark "Audience"? We have some sub forums that deal with some very general themes but otherwise we do not know if the person(s) we imagine ourselves as communicating with will see it or no, and because it is a pretty sure bet people we do not know, who do not know us, who may be taking their very first impression of who we are from this very post...will be reading this... well, that can make it really hard to keep it casual. Especially if whatever you are saying is really meaningful shit to you.

< Message edited by Maxwell67 -- 8/11/2008 2:36:46 PM >

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/11/2008 2:37:41 PM

candystripper

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Well, while this is an unusually active message board, I really don't consider even a back and forth between two particular posters as a 'conversation'; I think of convos as happening in more private settings and being real time.

But I must say Maxwelll, I invariably enjoy your posts...so your point about writing (and possibly reading) styles is well-taken. With some members who post here frequently I usually feel 'on the same wave length' regardless of whether I agree with the content of their post. Perhaps that is because I feel more at ease with the style in which they write.

candystripper

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/11/2008 2:42:22 PM

sirsholly

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IMHO conversation is alive and well. Listening, however, is another matter.

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/11/2008 3:11:53 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

IMHO conversation is alive and well. Listening, however, is another matter.

I see your point, holly, but I would offer that "conversation" requires both talking and listening -- if it doesn't come with the listening part, it is just two people talking at one another, not conversation.

CFB

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/11/2008 7:08:22 PM

Aneirin

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Conversation has taken on new forms, take internet forums for example, conversations go on between people even within conversations. We may not be face to face and using words and expression to communicate, but think of the ways the hidden communication can be got across via the internet forum.

I use many forums, forums of interest to myself, where I online meet people with a common interest. When I write a post and submit it, though I may have to wait a while before there is a reply due to someone thinking and writing, the conversation where it stopped last is in my mind, I am focused on their conversation and await an answer, but unlike face to face conversation, that answer may not come as people reserve the right to lose interest or be attracted to something else of interest.

One thing I have noticed about conversation on forums is how one expresses themselves and from this, I take efforts to ensure the correct use of words, their spelling and punctuation as a sentence can mean many thing depending on how it is punctuated. Forums and the conversation that come to exist on them I would say have improved my written English, so all is not lost.

But it is true, we all like to talk about ourselves, that is human nature and there is an element of D/s in conversations on a face to face basis. Forum conversation is a leveller.

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/11/2008 8:52:18 PM

SummerWind

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uh huh

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/11/2008 11:00:36 PM

Wizardries

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I do agree in what you have said. Conversation is also subjective to the very people that are using it. To that end not all people can converse due to style and the way each articulate their points. But When you do find the people that best suit your conversation motif it is quite satisfying!

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/12/2008 12:27:15 AM

DomDolf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Well, while this is an unusually active message board, I really don't consider even a back and forth between two particular posters as a 'conversation'; I think of convos as happening in more private settings and being real time.
<CLIPPED>
candystripper

In the context of a more personal setting I do not believe the art of conversation is lost. I have great conversations on almost a daily basis. I do believe it may become lost in the future.

I don't want this to turn into an us against them thread, but I see the younger folk getting further and further behind in this area as a whole. Yes, there are exceptions, but for the most part I would say the text messaging and instant messaging has had a huge influence on some. Even in my business where professionalism is paramount, I have seen several people, always young, writing emails with text message shorthand. That is unacceptable and when I see it in my offices I correct it. I have even received email from people soliciting me for business that displayed this "shorthand" and, as you may imagine, they were immediately lowered on my scale of people I desire to do business with. Telephone conversations I would venture to say have suffered from the same mentality. All verbal communication is "practice" in the art of conversation. Shorthand and the one-sided conversations of text messaging I believe have limited some people's skill level in this art.

Dolf

(in reply to candystripper)

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/12/2008 1:21:08 AM

E2Sweet

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I find most of those on my YIM list who I chat with regularly excel at the art of conversation. Most of the contacts I go back to again and again are very sharp and funny individuals and I do like those qualities in a person. They're pretty much the few that I end up exchanging phone numbers with because I really don't like to talk on that dreaded thing unless I really click with the person on the other end.

I can't say I believe conversation has or will ever become a lost art. It seems to me there will always be some folks out there who are convo-capable. Perhaps over time, they'll just be a bit fewer in numbers and thus a bit harder to seek out due to the isolating, video game playing culture we are now living in.

Of course y'all know the golden rule to having a good conversation is to first stop looking at porn.

< Message edited by E2Sweet -- 8/12/2008 1:26:06 AM >

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/12/2008 1:36:27 AM

DomDolf

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I've had great conversations before/during/after watching porn... lol

To clarify, I have had great conversations with people on Yahoo Instant Messenger and I have had some ignorant fools try to converse with me. I'm not referring to the trolls either. Me being me, I choose the good conversationalists to continue speaking with, as I am sure you do.

Dolf

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/12/2008 1:46:07 AM

Vendaval

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Sigh...you brought up one of my biggest pet peeves, candy.

So much of why conversation is becoming a lost art is due to the endless distractions and fenzied pace of the Digital Age. Ever try to spend quality time with someone who won't get off the damned cell phone or stop texting? Who will not converse during dinner with the people at the table but instead use their crackberry to send messages to the other side of the world?

These types of devices can be either a benefit or a nuisance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

However, on my Yahoo IM list and elsewhere, I find few people who can converse. I'm wondering if its because we met on the 'net...or because some of our convo is written...or because convo itself has become a lost art.

Anyone have any thoughts?

candystripper

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/12/2008 2:43:44 AM

JulieorSarah

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Conversation, is lost, why talk when you can txt, sms, email, send a vid of yourself ... to think, construct a sentance, and the speak in a relatively short space of time and then listen to the reponses, is much more demanding than sitting comotose in front of a screen, or have sound in your ears as you walk by.

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/12/2008 3:01:21 AM

candystripper

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I agree with Jeff and Vendeval...we have all these new inventions which have come to be commonly ~IMO~ misused to goggle up time we used to use to first, ruminate and form a thought worthy of sharing and second, engage another adult in convo for the sake of good convo.

I remember not long ago seeing an advert for something or other nontech which used the line 'when your *UMs* come home from school and begin texting their friends' and thought then -- holy sh*t, do UMs do this? They no longer go out and play? Or at least yak on the phone? (I remember when having a phone of one's own -- a landline, preferably a pink princess phone -- was a girl's single greatest desire, while a boy's was his first car).

To a degree I'm guilty of this myself. My best friend from high school and college and I have reconnected and I owe her a letter, but all I have for her is a street addy. My printer's on the fritz and I've been disinclined to actually put pen to paper. Hell, even my handwriitng has badly degenerated, and once I was quite good at calligraphy.

candystripper

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/12/2008 3:13:12 AM

Vendaval

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For anyone to be attractive to me, they must be a good conversationalist. Call it a hard limit if you wish or high standards.

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"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/12/2008 3:21:21 AM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

IMHO conversation is alive and well. Listening, however, is another matter.

When observing people "talk" to one another, I think of it as "competing for air-time"

People seem to be trying to one-up another by getting in their comment first. They are less focused on what is being said and more focused on what their response is going to be.

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RE: Is Conversation a Lost Art? - 8/12/2008 3:24:40 AM

candystripper

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Well, not everyone's convo style, no matter how excellent, is palatable to me. I like a variety; sometimes debate; sometimes analysis; sometimes sharing; sometimes stream of consciousness. But what all the people I enjoy conversing with have in common is the ~IMO~ uncommon ability to relax, listen, and reflect back something worth hearing....keep up their end without in any way limiting mine. Some good convos have been six ways at once; some have been silly; some have been passionate; etc. but all have had this give and take to them.

I wonder if we've lost interest in one another to some degree and are now reacting more to ourselves second hand. All I know for sure is I regret most of the additions to my Yahoo IM list and tonight they are getting kicked.

candystripper

(in reply to Vendaval)

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