McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (Full Version)

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celticlord2112 -> McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 7:26:44 AM)

http://polijamblog.polijam.com/?p=1649

In a moment when words matter most, it's interesting to see who has the most words.



Thadius -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 7:28:38 AM)

To be fair, Obama is on a planned vacation. 



pahunkboy -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 7:31:15 AM)

the invasion is mute.  we own Iraq which is adjacent to the south.

I absolutley hate obamas marketing people.  you can not unsubscribe form his emails.

but i do think he is a better choice then mccain. 

lets recall- that bush looked into putins eyes.

where is ron pauls statement?



celticlord2112 -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 7:43:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

To be fair, Obama is on a planned vacation. 

A man running for high office is never fully on vacation, nor does a man presuming to the mantle of leadership dither and dissemble.  That is reality for all; it is fair by definition.

Russia sent troops in to Georgian sovereign territory.  They either have just cause or they do not.  Their position is defensible in the eyes of the world or it is not.  Georgia has erred in South Ossetia or it has not.

Obama had a perfect opportunity to take a clear position.  He did not. 

McCain did:
quote:

Russia should immediately and unconditionally cease its military operations and withdraw all forces from sovereign Georgian territory.

Whether that is the morally or politically sound position is a matter worthy of discussion, but leaders shoulder that risk, and gladly.

Whither Obama's celebrated "judgement"?



candystripper -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 8:16:37 AM)

With all due respect CL, this site you linked us to does not even pretend to be responsible journalism...haven't the candidates posted anything on their home pages?
 
candystripper



Thadius -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 8:19:24 AM)

I posted a link when this first started, in the other thread...

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/08/1255737.aspx



Owner59 -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 8:49:36 AM)

  
We have Obama saying both sides should withdraw and stop all fighting.

Sounds diplomatic,calm and reserved.

We have McCain,basically ordering Russia out,as if he was POTUS already and siding with the Georgians.

McCain`s LTS is to continue Bush`s strategy, of trying to isolate Russia.A strategy that is failing, as well as fueling and adding to problems like this.

So why is McCain so one sided in this?

That`s something, that doesn`t give a POTUS much credibility in international affairs.



http://www.mcclatchydc.com/104/story/46982.html

WASHINGTON — John McCain's top foreign policy adviser, Randall Scheunemann, lobbied for the nation of Georgia for four years, including for about a year after he joined the Republican senator's presidential campaign staff in early 2007.
Georgia has paid Scheunemann's firm, Orion Strategies, LLC, nearly $900,000 since 2004, including $200,000 for an eight-month contract that began on May 1, two weeks after McCain issued a strong statement criticizing Russia and supporting Georgia.
Scheunemann took a leave from lobbying for Orion in March, two months before McCain barred active lobbyists from serving on his staff. He's still listed as Orion's president and owner.



Thadius -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 8:55:08 AM)

Pssst....

Obama's position has changed since Friday... he is now suggesting the exact same thing... although he is putting more faith in the UN security council being able to do something.



celticlord2112 -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 6:12:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

With all due respect CL, this site you linked us to does not even pretend to be responsible journalism...haven't the candidates posted anything on their home pages?
 
candystripper

It was the first site I found that had both their statements together.  I wanted the side-by-side comparison.



slvemike4u -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 6:20:31 PM)

So he who has the most words wins....sorry can't agree with that sort of judgement CL



celticlord2112 -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 6:24:11 PM)

quote:


We have Obama saying both sides should withdraw and stop all fighting.

Sounds diplomatic,calm and reserved.

We have McCain,basically ordering Russia out,as if he was POTUS already and siding with the Georgians.

Yes, it's called taking a stand.  Hey, maybe the Russians are in the right.  I honestly don't know.  If the Russians have a causus belli then we should listen to their case--but after they pull back within their borders and stop all the shooting.

The fatal flaw in Obama's weak, limp-wristed statement is it leaves combat troops from both sides in close proximity to each other.  It leaves Russian troops in Georgian territory....which extended talks would miraculously convert to Russian territory.  It rewards Russian incursions.

McCain's stance is simple:  Stop, separate, back off, back down, and then we'll sort this out.  Works for kids and nations alike.



celticlord2112 -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 6:28:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So he who has the most words wins....sorry can't agree with that sort of judgement CL

McCain had the most to say, regardless of how you evaluate the statements.  He had the most substantial, articulated, thought out statement.  Obama had nothing but a stock "they need to talk".  If the word count troubles you, set it aside and grade strictly on content.  By any measure, Obama flunked this test.



slvemike4u -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/12/2008 7:57:42 PM)

Tell me this CL what did you think when McCain saying he was speaking for all Americans and "we are all Georgians today"....not so sure I want McCain claiming to speak for me,don't you think he should wait to or if he's elcted before he starts speaking for all of us



celticlord2112 -> RE: McCain and Obama on Russia's invasion of Georgia (8/13/2008 5:18:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Tell me this CL what did you think when McCain saying he was speaking for all Americans and "we are all Georgians today"....not so sure I want McCain claiming to speak for me,don't you think he should wait to or if he's elcted before he starts speaking for all of us

On something like this, no, he should not.

To reiterate the obvious, it's called taking a stand.  McCain is staking out a moral position:  Russia invaded Georgia, with neither cause nor provocation; such an invasion is an immoral act by Russia upon Georgia, and should therefore be condemned clearly and categorically.

If you want to argue the stance itself, have at it.  However, the credit is to McCain and the criticism is to Obama, simply because McCain took a stand where Obama vacillated. 

Leaders take stands.  They make hard decisions; they make decisions in the here and now.

Leaders take stands.  They do not always take popular stands.  They do not let popularity or opinion polls dissuade them from taking a stand in a moment of crisis.

McCain took a stand.  Obama did not. 

McCain led.  Obama did not.

McCain passed the leadership test.  Obama flunked it most pathetically.

This one really is that simple.



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