"regardless of whether it was unlawful or contrary to the national security of the United States"

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"regardless of whether it was unlawful or contrary... - 8/12/2008 8:24:45 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

The court ruled Cheney and the others were acting within their official capacity when they revealed Plame's identity to reporters.

Government employees who engage in questionable acts, such as abusing prisoners at the Guantanamo Bay facility or engaging in defamatory speech, cannot be held individually liable if they are carrying out official duties, the court said.

"The conduct, then, was in the defendants' scope of employment regardless of whether it was unlawful or contrary to the national security of the United States," Appeals Court Chief Judge David Sentelle wrote in the opinion.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN12487250

I'm speechless. Literally "Above-The-Law".

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

Post #: 1

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 4:15:28 AM

slavebianca

Posts: 17
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline

It's unbelievable and worse...My country is so damned brainwashed they don't even care.
It's like living in bazzorro world.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 2

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 4:19:39 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

That is bizarre...

(in reply to slavebianca)

Post #: 3

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 4:31:13 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

I can't reconcile how an ILLEGAL ACT can be within the scope of anyone's employment.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 4

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 5:14:25 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

OMG- no one is safe!

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 5

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 6:53:31 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Above that particular kind of lawsuit, which is good. If every citizen could sue every government official for every action they must perform in their official functions then government would be moribund.

Highways wouldn't be built, mail would go undelivered...

And how were any of them "above the law" exactly when they were all endlessly investigated by Congress and special counsel and the left-wing media.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I'm speechless. Literally "Above-The-Law".

< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/13/2008 7:38:41 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 6

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 7:08:11 AM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

Time to play my favorite game.... guess who said this.

quote:

While we are prepared to prosecute vigorously those who are responsible for leaks of classified information,… I also want to say that the Department of Justice believes that criminal prosecution is not the most effective way to address the leak problem.

quote:

In general, we believe that the better way to address the problem of leaks is to try to prevent them through stricter personnel security practices, including prohibitions of unauthorized contacts with the press, regular security reminders, and through administrative sanctions,

I will reveal the mysterious person in a later post.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 7

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 8:49:32 AM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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Thad, I really don't know but I would bet fifty to one that it was either Bush or someone in his administration.

I'll bet a hundred to one it was someone in the last five administrations.

How much did I win ?

T

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 8

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 8:54:08 AM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Thad, I really don't know but I would bet fifty to one that it was either Bush or someone in his administration.

I'll bet a hundred to one it was someone in the last five administrations.

How much did I win ?

T

It was the AG from the previous administration... Ms (mr?) Janet Reno.

http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2007/03/janet_reno_on_leaks_2000.html
http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/renoleaks.html

BEFORE THE
SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE
ON INTELLIGENCE

CONCERNING
UNAUTHORIZED DISCLOSURE OF CLASSIFIED INFORMATION

JUNE 14, 2000

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 9

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 8:59:17 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Above that particular kind of lawsuit, which is good. If every citizen could sue every government official for every action they must perform in their official functions then government would be moribund.

Highways wouldn't be built, mail would go undelivered...

And how were any of them "above the law" exactly when they were all endlessly investigated by Congress and special counsel and the left-wing media.

Which has long been the purpose of qualified immunity. Qualified in that the actions could not automatically assume blanket immunity merely because of the job of the person committing them.

Doing away with that and replacing it with immunity for crimes committed while in a government position is not a good thing.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 10

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 9:31:22 AM

Real_Trouble

Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline

This is, however, context dependent, as stated above.

Immunity to civil prosecution while in office, acting as a government official, is probably a good thing.

Keep in mind what this lawsuit says is not that they cannot be held criminally liable (ask Libby about that), but rather that civil lawsuits (ie, suing them) for actions while in office is untenable. Which, as stated above, is good, otherwise government would grind to a screeching halt immediately and we'd be left with the "efficiency" of Zimbabwe.

_____________________________

Send lawyers, guns, and money.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 11

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 3:20:51 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

Screeching Halt means they don't spend anymore money.

I'm not sure there's a downside.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Real_Trouble)

Post #: 12

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 5:12:54 PM

PanthersMom

Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

OMG- no one is safe!

and you thought anyone was? my grandfather died almost 25 yrs ago. he used to talk about stuff like this, everyone thought he was nuts. i listened and figured time would tell. he was a man before his time. nobody is safe from anyone in this thing we call a government. it's a monster and lives by rules it makes up as it goes along to suit whatever it wants to do.
PM

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That which does not kill me, better run pretty damn fast

I miss my ex, but my aim is improving!

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 13

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/13/2008 10:44:16 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

I am disappointed but not surprised.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 14

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/14/2008 12:48:29 AM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

The court ruled Cheney and the others were acting within their official capacity when they revealed Plame's identity to reporters.

Government employees who engage in questionable acts, such as abusing prisoners at the Guantanamo Bay facility or engaging in defamatory speech, cannot be held individually liable if they are carrying out official duties, the court said.

"The conduct, then, was in the defendants' scope of employment regardless of whether it was unlawful or contrary to the national security of the United States," Appeals Court Chief Judge David Sentelle wrote in the opinion.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN12487250

I'm speechless. Literally "Above-The-Law".

The Op is correct. You do not need more than a dash of common sense to know this decision is wrong. An illegal act cannot be within the scope of anyone's employment. The government cannot be 'in the business' of committing illegal acts....it is *logically impossible*.

It will be many, many years before the effects of this despicable presidency have fully worn off.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 8/14/2008 12:56:12 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 15

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/14/2008 3:35:17 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

No, wrong. First, it turned out that Richard Armitage, an administration critic, was the source of the leak - not Bush, not Cheney, or Libby. So there was nothing illegal to sue for, merely allegations. Second, if people are allowed to sue public officials with nuisance lawsuits like that you won't be able to find anyone decent who is willing to run for office, which is a problem already because of the "gotcha" attitude that's on display all around us.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 16

RE: "regardless of whether it was unlawful or cont... - 8/14/2008 4:41:14 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

It is the Judge's job ( sitting in the court the action is filed ) to determine if ( upon motion to dismiss ) if there is cause for dismissal.

To say that "You shouldn't be sued for..." is to deprive the plaintiff the opportunity for Justice.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 17

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