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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 9:47:13 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		And now there are Russian "peacekeepers"in Georgia proper,your continued statements in defence of these aggressive and criminal acts perpetrated by Putin are growing tiresome Reality....answer me this ,do you really feel confident in Russia's assertion that the restrictions placed on western journalist's are for their own protection....I can guess the answer to this but I would really like to see you spin this one

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 9:49:16 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And now there are Russian "peacekeepers"in Georgia proper,your continued statements in defence of these aggressive and criminal acts perpetrated by Putin are growing tiresome Reality....answer me this ,do you really feel confident in Russia's assertion that the restrictions placed on western journalist's are for their own protection....I can guess the answer to this but I would really like to see you spin this one


Of course it is for their own protection Mike,  this means that if the reporter sees that tanks are rolling deeper into Georgia, they don't have to stop and shoot him.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 9:49:56 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks
There is no "evil actor", there is no "drama". Pretending that the world bears much resemblance to the moral monochrome of a B-movie might be fun for you but I find it bores me. If you're not able to recognise the failings and flaws displayed by leadership on both sides and how these affect the lives of ordinary people like you and me, this exchange will not meet standard.

The real world has a place for the words right and wrong. Those words are never boring--indeed, their "moral monochrome" is that to which the whole world aspires, stumbling fitfully along a variety of paths.

Complexity is an illusion. In politics, complexity is generally delusion as well.

quote:


As the world knows, there were Russian peacekeepers in S. Ossetia, their presence agreed by Georgia in the peace accord of 1991. These troops were attacked by Georgia. Russia has repelled and reduced the Georgian military and still holds positions in their territory.

Invading Georgian sovereign territory is now "peacekeeping"?

Sending tanks and troops beyond South Ossetia is now "peacekeeping"?

Say, rather, "peace in our time" -keeping.

Appeasement has but one outome--to arm and amplify aggressors. History teaches that lesson in abundance.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 9:50:00 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Spot on, O59.  It's like watching the Colbert Report.  No-one is going to know all the detail in these sorts of conflict but the absolute, unquestioning acceptance of the dumbed-down version drawn in stark black and white... I really am amazed they buy it. 

Surely adults know life is Not. That. Simple?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Argg,russia bad,....water good,....fire bad,....george bush good,..

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Profile   Post #: 244
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 9:57:34 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And now there are Russian "peacekeepers"in Georgia proper,your continued statements in defence of these aggressive and criminal acts perpetrated by Putin are growing tiresome Reality....answer me this ,do you really feel confident in Russia's assertion that the restrictions placed on western journalist's are for their own protection....I can guess the answer to this but I would really like to see you spin this one


Of course it is for their own protection Mike,  this means that if the reporter sees that tanks are rolling deeper into Georgia, they don't have to stop and shoot him.
ROFLMAO...and stil no answer from the apologist's

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 245
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 10:00:22 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Spot on, O59.  It's like watching the Colbert Report.  No-one is going to know all the detail in these sorts of conflict but the absolute, unquestioning acceptance of the dumbed-down version drawn in stark black and white... I really am amazed they buy it. 

Surely adults know life is Not. That. Simple?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Argg,russia bad,....water good,....fire bad,....george bush good,..

You are amazed we buy it,we who get our information from a multitude of open and transparent sources,while you seem to have swallowed whole and intact Putin's press releases....sheeesh the chutzpah!!!!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 246
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 10:12:57 AM   
kolekorin


Posts: 35
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline 		I disagree. I strongly believe the u.s could have defeated the axis without europe. It would have taken longer....and far more canadians, but it could have been done.

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Profile   Post #: 247
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 10:14:44 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Spot on, O59. It's like watching the Colbert Report. No-one is going to know all the detail in these sorts of conflict but the absolute, unquestioning acceptance of the dumbed-down version drawn in stark black and white... I really am amazed they buy it.

Surely adults know life is Not. That. Simple?

Life very often is that simple.

Russian forces are in Georgian territory. That is undeniable--even the apologists can do little more than celebrate this fact.

Georgia has attempted to re-assert its authority over its own territory, that being the province of South Ossetia. That, too, is undeniable.

Russia sent tanks and troops into Georgia--well beyond South Ossetia--using Georgia's efforts in South Ossetia as an excuse. This is also undeniable.

Russia has peacekeeping forces in South Ossetia, legally placed there under a 1991 agreement. This is undeniable as well.

IF Russian peacekeepers were placed under fire or attacked, then Russia would be well within its rights to defend its forces, and to re-inforce those units within South Ossetia. However, tanks rolling towards Tblisi is neither defense nor re-inforcement.

IF South Ossetian civilians were being unjustly attacked, Russian peacekeepers would be doing their duty to defend those civilians, and Russia would be within its rights to re-inforce those units within South Ossetia. Again, however, tanks rolling towards Tblisi is neither defense nor re-inforcement.

Tanks rolling toward Tbilisi is invasion. Tanks rolling toward Tblisi is aggression. Tanks rolling toward Tbilisi is wrong.

Whatever sins the nations of the world may wish to lay upon Georgia, none of them excuse Russian aggression towards Georgia. Russia's actions are wrong.

Yes, this one is very simple. When the apologies are spent, this one remains extremely simple.

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Profile   Post #: 248
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 10:16:45 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And now there are Russian "peacekeepers"in Georgia proper,your continued statements in defence of these aggressive and criminal acts perpetrated by Putin are growing tiresome Reality....answer me this ,do you really feel confident in Russia's assertion that the restrictions placed on western journalist's are for their own protection....I can guess the answer to this but I would really like to see you spin this one


Of course it is for their own protection Mike,  this means that if the reporter sees that tanks are rolling deeper into Georgia, they don't have to stop and shoot him.
ROFLMAO...and stil no answer from the apologist's


You know there could be the possibility that they don't want reporters they don't control to post things like the AP did today.
quote:


Meanwhile, Russian soldiers took about 20 Georgian troops prisoner at a key Black Sea port in western Georgia on Tuesday, blindfolding them and holding them at gunpoint, and commandeered American Humvees awaiting shipment back to the United States.


Just a thought, but since I am programmed by my government I don't want to make any accusations.


_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 249
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 10:22:25 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		NahThadius,that couldn't be it,could it?..One would think "peacekeepers"would want the world to see them performing their humanitarian mission...wouldn't they?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 250
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 10:30:39 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Good point.  However, as much as we are all focusing on what is going on in eastern Georgia, many are forgetting about what is going on without hardly any coverage.

quote:

Greg Palkot reported today:
Russia has even less justification to overstep its territorial bounds, but overstep it did. We watched as thousands of “peacekeepers” — Russian soldiers with blue helmets — flood into western Georgia.
They went unhindered and few outsiders were there to witness it.
Our reporting this past weekend — that upwards of 100 fresh Russian tanks, armored personnel carriers, and other vehicles had entered Georgia well after the cease-fire and withdrawal was agreed to by Moscow — went largely unmentioned in the Western media.



_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 251
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 10:39:09 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Yup and according to reports I have read ,they are digging in and appear to be setting up for a good long stay.The information is out there and any who wish a viewpoint other than that coming from Moscow need only look....are you hearing me apologist's

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 252
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 2:51:55 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
14 hours before the Russian invasion Georgia made an assault on South Ossetia. According to Russian refugees, in Russia's delayed reaction, more than 1,000 South Ossetian civilians were killed. One can argue over the numbers but international organisations believe Russian citizens were being killed in South Ossetia. Basically, Georgia fucked up and thought with American support it could get away with its assault and win the breakaway province back.

How is Georgia asserting control over Georgian territory "fucking up"?

How does Georgia asserting control over Georgian territoy merit a punitive response from Russia?



Don't you listen to the news or read the newspapers or is the American media so biased?  The BBC, German TV news, Dutch TV news and Belgian TV news all reported the war started with a brutal Georgian attack, I repeat, brutal attack (none English language news used similar descriptions) on south Ossetia with the killing of many Russian civilians. If Canadians were killing US citizens in Canada, I'm sure you wouldn't say protecting them is beyond US juridiction.

There is not a country on this planet that wouldn't step in on the side of its cittizens in a similar situation if they had the ability. The US certainly would have.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 8/19/2008 2:54:30 PM >

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 2:54:58 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yup and according to reports I have read ,they are digging in and appear to be setting up for a good long stay.The information is out there and any who wish a viewpoint other than that coming from Moscow need only look....are you hearing me apologist's


Fucken "A", Mike!  We're not braniacs on the nerd patrol!

You're right.  The information is out there on open transparent news sources - but we don't even need to look there, we can just trust our values and our way of life!  Looking things up only confuses people anyway.   What we need is the truth unfiltered by a rational argument!!  Our values should be enough to tell us what is going on in the world around us, we don't need to listen to Moscow!!!!! 

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 2:56:45 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks
You're right. The information is out there on open transparent news sources - but we don't even need to look there, we can just trust our values and our way of life! Looking things up only confuses people anyway. What we need is the truth unfiltered by a rational argument!! Our values should be enough to tell us what is going on in the world around us, we don't need to listen to Moscow!!!!!

Listening to Moscow is a good idea. Believing Moscow blindly is not.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 2:58:19 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Neither is believing Washington.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 2:58:34 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And now there are Russian "peacekeepers"in Georgia proper,your continued statements in defence of these aggressive and criminal acts perpetrated by Putin are growing tiresome Reality....answer me this ,do you really feel confident in Russia's assertion that the restrictions placed on western journalist's are for their own protection....I can guess the answer to this but I would really like to see you spin this one


You should really listen to the news. The Georgians started the war with a brutal attack on a city full of Russian citizens.

Anyway, Iraq was a far more brutal act and didn't have the provocation of American citizens being murdered and ethnically cleansed..

EDITED TO ADD. There appears to be hundreds of fucking journalists there without restrictions. At least there are British, German, French, Belgian and Dutch journalists there who claim they are relatively free to roam around. Maybe there aren't any American journalists there, I don't know.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 8/19/2008 3:03:11 PM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Profile   Post #: 257
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 2:59:28 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Neither is believing Washington.

This is very true.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 3:02:15 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Everything I say is.

To add:

I'm one of them thar factinista's.

< Message edited by RealityLicks -- 8/19/2008 3:15:44 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 259
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/19/2008 3:40:03 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Don't you listen to the news or read the newspapers or is the American media so biased? The BBC, German TV news, Dutch TV news and Belgian TV news all reported the war started with a brutal Georgian attack, I repeat, brutal attack (none English language news used similar descriptions) on south Ossetia with the killing of many Russian civilians. If Canadians were killing US citizens in Canada, I'm sure you wouldn't say protecting them is beyond US juridiction.

There is not a country on this planet that wouldn't step in on the side of its cittizens in a similar situation if they had the ability. The US certainly would have.

Actually, the news source I have been using for most of my understanding of events in the Caucusus is the BBC Online.

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