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RE: How to remove guilt/shame - 8/16/2008 5:06:20 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
Knowing I was letting go for him made it easier to do so. If he no longer had an issue with what I did, then I shouldn't, either.

Yeah. What she said

. Always so succinct and right on..............luci

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RE: How to remove guilt/shame - 8/16/2008 8:53:12 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arastella

Ok, so lets say you did something, got in trouble, got punished, and the slate has been wiped clean. What if you still feel shame or guilt about whatever it is you've done. Even after the slate should be wiped clean. How do you remove those feelings in order to start anew and remove feelings of guilt and shame, and are supposed to be serving to the best of your abilities? What then?

You sit down and talk to your partner. Tell him/her how you are feeling, discuss it and get all your emotions, feelings, thoughts out in the open. I've always found that this works.

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RE: How to remove guilt/shame - 8/16/2008 8:57:29 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arastella

Ok, so lets say you did something, got in trouble, got punished, and the slate has been wiped clean. What if you still feel shame or guilt about whatever it is you've done. Even after the slate should be wiped clean. How do you remove those feelings in order to start anew and remove feelings of guilt and shame, and are supposed to be serving to the best of your abilities? What then?

Here's how I looked at it. If my former Master wanted the slate wiped clean, then my harboring guilt and shame was only giving him more negative stuff to deal with, rather than enjoying my submission. Since I wanted to provide him with positive results rather than negative, I needed to trust him and let go of my guilt. Knowing I was letting go for him made it easier to do so. If he no longer had an issue with what I did, then I shouldn't, either.

Yes. If I say something is done with-keeping guilt over it shows lack or respect for my wishes and judgement-it's disobedient.

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RE: How to remove guilt/shame - 8/16/2008 9:24:06 PM

Racquelle

Posts: 600
Joined: 4/21/2008
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My grandmother gave me an incredible handbuilt trunk as a wedding gift in 1992. It had been intended as a hope chest for a distant relative who died before she wed. It is very old, and was built by her father. I had it in my living room. It was covered with a cloth, but we had some plants sitting on top of it. Needless to say, the top was damaged very badly with a calcified ring and the finish was mangled. I kicked myself for years for this. It was such a huge thing that loomed in my head. The mistake was its own punishment really - having to see that awful ring every time I looked at it. I couldn't look at it. I covered it up - put it in a back closet. Then a man I worked with told me he had a side business refinishing antiques. I gave him another family heirloom that he did a nice job with. I brought him the trunk. He refinished it entirely, inside and out and it is so beautiful. There is just the faintest hint of the damage I did. I am so proud of it. I rarely think of how it was damaged, and feel none of that whincing pain. Personal forgiveness is a lot like that. We carry around the damage. We see what we did and it hurts all over again. Perhaps, we feel in our hearts, that we can never be forgiven for what we did - that we do not deserve forgiveness. Very few of us will actually do one of those things that mark us forever as a "bad person". Most of what we will do will fall under the class of "normal person made a mistake they don't want to repeat". I have found, sometimes, I can't forgive myself until I feel like the damage is undone. What did you do? How will you undo? As a dominant, I just can't imagine being able to punish a sub into self-forgiveness. The best I can do is assure them a personal afront to me has not particularly damaged me, or perhaps give a task or project that allows the damage to be undone. If a sub has displeased me, and can then please me - there it is - undone. No self flagellation required. And I try not to blow things out of proportion. (Except in a scene, for dramatic effect, but then we both know, it's part of the "play".)

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RE: How to remove guilt/shame - 8/16/2008 10:01:04 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arastella

Ok, so lets say you did something, got in trouble, got punished, and the slate has been wiped clean. What if you still feel shame or guilt about whatever it is you've done. Even after the slate should be wiped clean. How do you remove those feelings in order to start anew and remove feelings of guilt and shame, and are supposed to be serving to the best of your abilities? What then?

As I've never "gotten in trouble" or been punished by Firm, I can't really answer your question from a D/s viewpoint. I can however try to address the issue of lingering feelings of guilt and shame...

As unpleasant as they are, guilt and shame do have a purpose. Those feelings are there to steer us away from repeating mistakes. Rather than trying to rid yourself of those emotions, try acknowledging them for what they are... emotional guideposts. Recognize them as reminders of lessons learned and put them in proper perspective. The more confident you get that you will be able to avoid making the same mistake, the less the feelings of guilt and shame will haunt you.

If you are unable to forgive yourself for being human or otherwise feel crippled by guilt and shame, then perhaps professional counseling would be in order.

For the situation you outline in your OP, though, I suspect that the feelings you may be ascribing to guilt and shame, aren't really guilt and shame, but rather insecurity that he no longer sees you in the same light. *shrugs* But that's just my personal feeling because I can't imagine beating myself up over a mistake... and if he's forgiven me, then I can't imagine him beating me up over it.

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 8/16/2008 10:03:04 PM >

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RE: How to remove guilt/shame - 8/17/2008 6:42:05 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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In the beginning I told him I couldn't get over it. He gave me a symbolic spanking to allow me to cry it out in his arms.
These days this doesn't happen. I don't ever willfully disobey just to irritate him. I misunderstand, he makes mistakes in explaining things, and sometimes life happens. We just talk it out and move on.

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RE: How to remove guilt/shame - 8/17/2008 7:35:11 PM

Owner4SexSlave

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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I was just talking about this topic with somebody the other night. I was telling her that I've actually not have had to punish any of my past partners very much. That if anything, I had to keep them from beating themselves up over mistakes or failure.

This actually can be easier said then done. Trust me, I know how hard some of you submissive types can be on yourself. Us D types can only attempt to hault your ass at best when we are aware of what is going on.

This is something that you need to cope with, and learn from. That you are not perfect and that failure does happen. You are human, and come with flaws and faults.

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RE: How to remove guilt/shame - 8/17/2008 7:39:33 PM

Owner4SexSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I wish I knew! Training, time, trust, approval in the long term have gone a LONG way to getting my partner to release his guilt a lot faster and more reasily, but they are still like shackles, almost instantly there at the first sign of problems.

Mostly I've shown him how useless it is, how he learned to take it on as a result of very dysfunctional patterns growing up and the expectations he unfairly puts upon himself. I've shown him the glory in freedom from guilt by literally not allowing his mind to wallow in that space, to keep it busy and replace those thoughts and patterns with more positive ones.

Sometimes it works. If you figure out the answer to eliminate it completely, please let me know.

Please let me know, if anybody let's you know. It's not an easy thing to simply make your partner stop doing to themselves.

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RE: How to remove guilt/shame - 8/18/2008 8:07:38 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arastella
Ok, so lets say you did something, got in trouble, got punished, and the slate has been wiped clean. What if you still feel shame or guilt about whatever it is you've done. Even after the slate should be wiped clean. How do you remove those feelings in order to start anew and remove feelings of guilt and shame, and are supposed to be serving to the best of your abilities? What then?

Well, I can give you at least one Dom's viewpoint. Let's assume my girl has erred, and that error has been discussed, reparations have been made, and if appropriate and needful, punishmnet has happened. Now, after all of that, I would consider it pretty crappy service if she was still carrying the original issue around in her head -- impacting her happiness and therefor mine. You might consider how well you are serving your Master by hanging onto these feelings.... is that what he/she really wanted?

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RE: How to remove guilt/shame - 8/18/2008 3:03:56 PM

kallisto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

This is something that you need to cope with, and learn from. That you are not perfect and that failure does happen. You are human, and come with flaws and faults.

As the most truthful few statements around, that is something that is one of the hardest things to learn about oneself.

I agree with Leatherist's staement as well.

quote:

Yes. If I say something is done with-keeping guilt over it shows lack or respect for my wishes and judgement-it's disobedient

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RE: How to remove guilt/shame - 8/19/2008 11:18:39 AM

Arastella

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Thank you for so many detailed responses! I think I do understand. What makes most sense to me and sounds like something that would work if/when I have a Dom and this happens is to keep in mind I am technically disobeying Him by not letting go and moving on. That I am thinking of myself instead of focusing my attention on Him. I think that mindset will definitely help me, thank you so much!

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RE: How to remove guilt/shame - 8/19/2008 2:49:15 PM

ThundersCry

Posts: 892
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Shame can....suck if it lingers...

It took me years to see what worked and what did not in eliminating *it*...it can be so oppressing...

There were times it was a spiritual problem to...it, thus...it required a spiritual solution for me to be free from...it.

Good luck...

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