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Where is the line? - 8/16/2008 12:38:18 PM   
swooshieone


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/4/2008
Status: offline 		For me devotion and loyalty are the foundation of service and submission. So I am interested in learning where Dominants believe a submissive should draw the line. Under what circumstances is the vow to serve defaulted? Have you ever done something that so grievously crossed the line you felt it necessary to release your partner?

_____________________________

Your hearts know in silence the secrets of the days and the nights.



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RE: Where is the line? - 8/16/2008 1:50:34 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		Whenever power is not perfectly balanced, there is always the issue of abuse. While the line is murky, I subscribe to the thought of "when she feels abused, she is abused."

If she stops consenting, I stop. She has assured me that she will use our safeword when the times comes. Thankfully, it hasn't. I've been overly cruel, but I've never done something irreparable. The sort of deviant behavior, so foul that she must be released to protect her, sounds very dangerous. With the exception of cheating, I don't see any behavior that fits this description in which that man shouldn't seriously consider his attitude issues.

The vow to serve is defaulted (a great word, by the way) when the contract, written or unwritten, is breached.

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to swooshieone)
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RE: Where is the line? - 8/16/2008 2:08:59 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

, I subscribe to the thought of "when she feels abused, she is abused."


The problem with this line of thinking is that being harmed can occur long before the person feels abused.  In fact, many a person has been harmed long before they "Feel" abused.    If we depend entirely on the person to shout abuse.... sometimes it is already to late.

How a person feels is indeed important... but it is also important to appreciate if Harm is occuring.  Harm and being abused... thou very similiar and co-existing in many cases are still not the same thing.... and as such one should be aware of both.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Where is the line? - 8/16/2008 3:15:22 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		Thats true, and I'm not saying the dominant has no responsibility in not abusing the submissive. Quite the opposite. There are many things I don't do with My Pet because I think they would be abusive. There's also the "beaten wife" mentality that borders very true and respectable submission.

Playing with these dangerous forces is like swimming with sharks. It makes it more exciting, but unhappy times will occur.

We do what we can, because we must.

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Where is the line? - 8/16/2008 3:31:07 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Where they go against themselves, or make it uanble to become who they will be fulfilled in being.  That's unacceptable to me in any relationship.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Where is the line? - 8/17/2008 7:29:14 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swooshieone

For me devotion and loyalty are the foundation of service and submission. So I am interested in learning where Dominants believe a submissive should draw the line. Under what circumstances is the vow to serve defaulted? Have you ever done something that so grievously crossed the line you felt it necessary to release your partner?


You are to not obey any command of mine or anyone elses's which, in your considered opinion, would do significant harm to yourself, myself, or our relationship.

That is the command I give (and continue to reinforce) with mine.  We haven't crossed any such line yet and I see no reason why such a thing should cause the end of our relationship.  That's why I wanted her to stop and think before obeying... so that it didn't get to the "ends the relationship" sort of level.  Yup, us doms make mistakes too.  Sometimes they're whoppers.  I like to have the help of my sub in preventing such things from running amok.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Where is the line? - 8/17/2008 9:56:04 AM   
Huntertn


Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		  Strangly enough I belive that line as you call it..ought to be something you both realize and never get that close too..

(in reply to leadership527)
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RE: Where is the line? - 8/17/2008 6:28:52 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
That's why I wanted her to stop and think before obeying... so that it didn't get to the "ends the relationship" sort of level.  Yup, us doms make mistakes too.  Sometimes they're whoppers.  I like to have the help of my sub in preventing such things from running amok.


That's how we operate. I have his back and sometimes that means telling him he's totally wrong and I won't do it.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Where is the line? - 8/17/2008 7:40:39 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swooshieone

For me devotion and loyalty are the foundation of service and submission. So I am interested in learning where Dominants believe a submissive should draw the line. Under what circumstances is the vow to serve defaulted? Have you ever done something that so grievously crossed the line you felt it necessary to release your partner?


I draw the line and stand to defend it. If a potential slave and I do not see eye to eye where that line stands then we will not be in accord and will move each on our own journey. If the line is breached by the slave, we have some serious work to do to heal the breach. If I cross the line, I have dishonoured myself and my home and I would never ask the salve to remain and thus would release her with my blessing.


IB
(The incorrigible, irrepressible and irreverent Bear)

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RE: Where is the line? - 8/18/2008 7:41:58 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swooshieone
For me devotion and loyalty are the foundation of service and submission. So I am interested in learning where Dominants believe a submissive should draw the line. Under what circumstances is the vow to serve defaulted? Have you ever done something that so grievously crossed the line you felt it necessary to release your partner?
To me, devotion and loyalty are inspired by trust and your question equates to "when you really love someone, when is it time to call it quits and give up?"  The only good answer I have found is “never”.  As long as both are willing to pay recompense, to make repairs and to fix what ever they broke, there is a healthy and growing relationship.  The minute someone refuses to stand accountable, make repairs or pay recompense, it’s over.  It means they no longer have your mutual interest at heart, only their own. 

At least, that’s how it works in my house.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to swooshieone)
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RE: Where is the line? - 8/27/2008 12:29:12 PM   
Gr33nT0p


Posts: 10
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		Wow, many interesting thoughts, and to be more direct to yrou questions, the first answer from me would be, the Line is drawn when agreements are made and the process of engaging into those agreements.  the vow to serve is only defaulted when the Dominant has been untrue to the sub and the agreement in place.  As for releasing a partner, I have never done anything so cruel or unusual to release a partner, but I have given the release option to a partner because of the complaints she continually had about misunderstanding my level of commitment at the time..  never for doing something which crossed over boundaries.

good luck and learn in all you do.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
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RE: Where is the line? - 9/24/2008 3:46:32 AM   
tweedydaddy


Posts: 673
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		Whenever your personal standards of behaviour tell you is the line.
This is all a game, it may enhance real life and be a holiday from reality, but really,you didn't check your brain at the door. You still have the same rights and responsibilites you had before you started.

(in reply to swooshieone)
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RE: Where is the line? - 9/24/2008 4:56:12 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		tweedydaddy if you read a lot of these post then you do find that some do check their brain at the door. Op I would go with Gr33n on this one.

(in reply to tweedydaddy)
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RE: Where is the line? - 9/24/2008 5:18:14 AM   
servantheart


Posts: 960
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: swooshieone
For me devotion and loyalty are the foundation of service and submission. So I am interested in learning where Dominants believe a submissive should draw the line. Under what circumstances is the vow to serve defaulted? Have you ever done something that so grievously crossed the line you felt it necessary to release your partner?
To me, devotion and loyalty are inspired by trust and your question equates to "when you really love someone, when is it time to call it quits and give up?"  The only good answer I have found is “never”.  As long as both are willing to pay recompense, to make repairs and to fix what ever they broke, there is a healthy and growing relationship.  The minute someone refuses to stand accountable, make repairs or pay recompense, it’s over.  It means they no longer have your mutual interest at heart, only their own. 

At least, that’s how it works in my house.


Awesome answer.  I couldn't agree more.  Regardless of the power dynamics, people make mistakes and when either one is too stubborn to admit to themselves and their partner when they make a mistake, apologize and work on not repeating said mistake, the relationship has nowhere to go but downhill.  Maybe some are happy spending the rest of their lives with their overly inflated ego to keep them company though.  How sad.   

_____________________________

When you really trust someone, you have to be okay with not understanding some things.
~Real Live Preacher, Real Live Preacher weblog, 07-08-04; Anonymous author of RealLivePreacher.com

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
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RE: Where is the line? - 9/24/2008 2:39:22 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swooshieone

For me devotion and loyalty are the foundation of service and submission. So I am interested in learning where Dominants believe a submissive should draw the line. Under what circumstances is the vow to serve defaulted?


In our relationship we have a system of tiered orders. Should a order, due to unforseen circumstances or what not, cause serious potential for undesired harm to me, I am to revert to the most important order of "Take care of what is mine - especially you!". Similiar rules apply to harming others and a few other things. Others will certainly come about when we have a child.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to swooshieone)
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