Termyn8or
Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
|
Now I am really confused. If the article wasn't bad enough, I find myself in agreement with CL. His opinions and mine are very very different, and that prevents an argument. I know some people hold their opinions and beliefs strongly, and no amount of talking, typing or anything will get them to change in any major way. In this case however, I completely agree.
I think a look at the facts might be a good idea. You give a guy a gun and tell him to go invade a foreign country. Now what do you expect him to do ? Show the gun to the people and say that we are the boss now ? No, you have to shoot the gun.
Now some innocent people got killed, of that there is no doubt. You get an order on the radio to kill someone, what are you supposed to do, reply "Can't do that Sir, because some court in bumfuct Kansas could throw me in jail after I get out of the service" ?
This is ridiculous. We would have to indict every last bomber pilot who ever saw active duty. Each and every one of them I would bet have killed Women and children. Killed unarmed people. Killed them with cruel and unusual methods (i.e. napalm in Viet Nam).
These are realities of war, it is not fair, it is not right and that is why it should not be waged lightly. We lost alot more than people and money in this debacle than most people think. Our country was heralded as one that would fight for freedom and come to the aid of those in need. Now, although I don't remember exactly where or when it was, but US aid was REFUSED after a major disaster by a foreign government. The US gov offered up our money and help, and they wanted nothing to do with us. That is a shame.
This is where I think CL and I digress. The Bush administration totally screwed this up. By trying to offer immunity somehow to their "contractors" they have opened up a can of worms. You are asking people to kill people. All acts commited during that service should forever stay the jurisdiction of the UMCJ. The JAG chooses not to prosecute bomber pilots and their crews, so even retaining jurisdiction for life, they would decline, or orders would be disobeyed and the military courts would be flooded with court martials.
As much as I dislike the saying it applies "If you want to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs". I know this system is corrupt, and it is really starting to look like they are inept. You see they do play the stupid act for the people, believe me. The problem is that I am starting to think it is not an act.
Allowing any civilian jurisdiction over one's actions in a war zone is so totally stupid on it's face. The laws are clearly different, otherwise Cleveland could just go into Linndale and annex the township be force. If he did something in violation of the UMCJ, try him ten years later if necessary, but in a military court where it belongs.
The Nazis tried at Nuremberg were no longer in the service, as the service no longer existed. Should the guy be tried in international court ? Not having been there I can't say.
I will say this though, if our troops' legs are cut off like this, and we have to wage a humane war, we are doomed to failure. What is shock and awe ?
I am so totally against this war that there are no words to express it, but if you are going to play the game anyway, play to win. In the revolutionary war rumor has it the troops were told "Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes". That was to save ammo and precious reloading time.
Which brings me to my buddy, I saw his DD214. He told me they were told that they can't fire until fored upon, and at that point he threw his rifle on the ground. He said "Well this is useless then". They were invading a foreign country, and he was dead right. The rules are different.
We can no longer say seek and destroy, but search and clear sounds so much better let's say that. It's the same thing.
Here's a twist for ya, remember the thread "Chill out, it's only a dog" ? Maybe that cop had been in the military and had seen enough people die that his attitude was shifted a bit. Luckily he didn't get a bout of PTSD and just shoot the dog, putting it out of it's misery.
Take my word for it, seeing people die changes you. Moreso when you kill them. These troops deserve our support, and I will do whatever I can. They go in thinking they are doing right and later think about it and have a real mental mess. Our mentality has changed, and now it considered wrong to kill except for certain reasons, such as self defense. Then you go into the military and must disregard all that. Then they wonder where PTSD comes from.
Yup, the world is just fine.
T
|
RE: Now this is a slippery slope - 
Profile
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread