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Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/17/2008 7:04:40 PM

Vendaval

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Greetings A/all,

This week's Sunday philosophical question -

Does loyalty require sacrifice?

The loyalty could be to a person or persons, an institution or ideal or even to yourself.

Vendaval

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

Post #: 1

RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/17/2008 7:19:20 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
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Require? Sacrifice is one way to express loyalty, but it shouldn't be a test or a requirement.

IMHO, it cheapens the concept to use 'loyalty' to leverage people into giving up something, any sacrifice should be as voluntary as the loyalty.

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 2

RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/17/2008 7:21:13 PM

fluffybarbie

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Joined: 7/15/2008
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I think it all depends on limits how loyal are you willing to be and what is expected of you

(in reply to Vendaval)

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RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/17/2008 7:33:05 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Greetings A/all,

This week's Sunday philosophical question -

Does loyalty require sacrifice?

The loyalty could be to a person or persons, an institution or ideal or even to yourself.

Vendaval

There is not a specific formula that demands so much sacrifice as part of so much loyalty.

However, when one is loyal, in time one will sacrifice.

_____________________________

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Post #: 4

RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/17/2008 7:38:35 PM

Termyn8or

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Sacrifice is proof of loyalty.

T

(in reply to celticlord2112)

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RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/17/2008 7:54:30 PM

IrishMist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Require? Sacrifice is one way to express loyalty, but it shouldn't be a test or a requirement.

IMHO, it cheapens the concept to use 'loyalty' to leverage people into giving up something, any sacrifice should be as voluntary as the loyalty.

I would have to agree with this.

I have made sacrifices to others out of loyalty to them ; but, those sacrifices have never been 'required', they were all voluntarily given by me.

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RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/17/2008 8:16:30 PM

MzMia

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Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Greetings A/all,

This week's Sunday philosophical question -

Does loyalty require sacrifice?

The loyalty could be to a person or persons, an institution or ideal or even to yourself.

Vendaval

Great topic, Vendaval
I would have to say YES, loyalty almost always requires sacrifice.
Think about the traits and actions of those that are disloyal.
Sacrifice normally goes hand in hand with loyalty.

Loyalty is indeed a virtue, and one that is hard to find these days.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 8/17/2008 8:23:43 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 7

RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/17/2008 11:19:42 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
However, when one is loyal, in time one will sacrifice.

This is pretty much my take on it.

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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

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RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/18/2008 12:52:48 AM

E2Sweet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

...I would have to say YES, loyalty almost always requires sacrifice...

But what if the loyalty is simply never challenged or tested?

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say, "Loyalty requires a willingness to sacrifice."?

_____________________________

E2Sweet™
"If it doesn't make you smile then chances are you're not doing it right."

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 9

RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/18/2008 3:53:28 AM

RealityLicks

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I think you're paraphrasing Woodrow Wilson, whose display of disloyalty to the first huge African American swing vote to the Democrats makes a mockery of his own statement. Although, he was probably talking about the war in Europe - then again, who isn't?

I'd agree with the view that a willingness to sacrifice is part of loyalty but add that if truly loyal, one would not see it as a sacrifice. Adhering to their personal standards is usually worth more to the loyal individual than the things we value in society; illustrated by the prevalence of supermarket "loyalty cards", as though we'd forgotten this particular virtue, leaving it open to be annexed by the marketing industry!

On the personal level, I sometimes wonder at disloyal people and the smooth and slick way they are able to gain status through bartering their allegiances. But ultimately, I pity them, because one day it all catches up with them and finally they also recognise that there's something rather soulless about an existence with no real bonds or ties.

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 10

RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/18/2008 5:26:32 AM

slaveluci

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval
Does loyalty require sacrifice?

Mine always has. I can think of two individuals in my life that I have been utterly loyal to. With both, that eventually led to deep sacrifices. Was that required or forced? No. But out of the loyalty, the sacrifice naturally flowed. When things got to a point where sacrifice was an OPTION, it's the option I always chose due to my deep sense of loyalty. If that makes any sense..........luci

_____________________________

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RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/18/2008 5:55:32 AM

chamberqueen

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From: Kalamazoo, MI
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I think it depends on who is requiring the sacrifice - the giver or the receiver.

If I am doing something for someone and it takes sacrifice it means much more to me, especially if it was not required but done totally voluntarily. Sacrifice could be shown in something monetary, with time, or with doing something I never believed myself capable of - among other things. However, I might make a sacrifice to a total stranger in need so it doesn't necessarily mean loyalty.

A sacrifice can be as simple as a smile when you don't feel like giving one, or getting up an hour early so that you can take care of a task. I think that the real trick is in not playing the martyr after a sacrifice is given.

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Post #: 12

RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/18/2008 5:58:30 AM

slaveluci

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen
I might make a sacrifice to a total stranger in need so it doesn't necessarily mean loyalty

quote:

I think that the real trick is in not playing the martyr after a sacrifice is given

Two very good points I hadn't thought about. True, very true

.............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to chamberqueen)

Post #: 13

RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/18/2008 6:37:24 AM

swooshieone

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Loyalty is in itself a sacrifice. It is committing oneself to something else....a person, an idea, an institution. It is in fact choosing a path and foregoing/sacrificing all the other alternatives.

As a sidebar I want to say I find it interesting the word martyr has become such a dirty word. The definition of the word is someone who is willing to suffer or die for their beliefs. This being said, is not every bottom a martyr when she welcomes the sting of a whip from her Top? Is not every kinkster who has ever been outed and lived to tell the tale a martyr? Is not every Dominant who has agonized over making a difficult decision for his property also been a martyr? I will ever daresay all of us will suffer at some point in our unique journey through BDSM. We do so willingly and because... sadist, masochist, master, slave, Owner, property....whatever your path....you believe in this lifestyle.

_____________________________

Your hearts know in silence the secrets of the days and the nights.

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Post #: 14

RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/18/2008 7:09:16 AM

DarkSteven

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Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: E2Sweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

...I would have to say YES, loyalty almost always requires sacrifice...

But what if the loyalty is simply never challenged or tested?

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say, "Loyalty requires a willingness to sacrifice."?

What she said.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Post #: 15

RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/18/2008 7:51:43 PM

MzMia

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Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: swooshieone

Loyalty is in itself a sacrifice. It is committing oneself to something else....a person, an idea, an institution. It is in fact choosing a path and foregoing/sacrificing all the other alternatives.

As a sidebar I want to say I find it interesting the word martyr has become such a dirty word. The definition of the word is someone who is willing to suffer or die for their beliefs. This being said, is not every bottom a martyr when she welcomes the sting of a whip from her Top? Is not every kinkster who has ever been outed and lived to tell the tale a martyr? Is not every Dominant who has agonized over making a difficult decision for his property also been a martyr? I will ever daresay all of us will suffer at some point in our unique journey through BDSM. We do so willingly and because... sadist, masochist, master, slave, Owner, property....whatever your path....you believe in this lifestyle.

swooshieone, you explained what I attempted to say
very well.
I can't think of too many situations in which being loyal, at some point,
does not require some form of sacrifice.

The op did not ask if you wanted to sacrifice or not, the question was
"Does loyalty require sacrifice?"
I totally agree, loyalty to me is a form of sacrifice.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 8/18/2008 7:54:40 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to swooshieone)

Post #: 16

RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/18/2008 9:48:01 PM

OrionTheWolf

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No. Sacrifice is the ability to show loyalty, but sacrifice by itself is also not proof of loyalty. Some of the most loyal people may never have the chance to truly show their loyalty, and often they are just as loyal as someone that has been in the situation to show it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Greetings A/all,

This week's Sunday philosophical question -

Does loyalty require sacrifice?

The loyalty could be to a person or persons, an institution or ideal or even to yourself.

Vendaval

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 17

RE: Does loyalty require sacrifice? - 8/18/2008 9:57:27 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
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Hm...I do not recall any of Wilson's statements, RL.
The query came from both a thread posted by another person and some discussions about responsibility to others verses personal goals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks
I think you're paraphrasing Woodrow Wilson, whose display of disloyalty to the first huge African American swing vote to the Democrats makes a mockery of his own statement. Although, he was probably talking about the war in Europe - then again, who isn't?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to RealityLicks)

Post #: 18

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